Star Trek XII - Page 2

Knerys · 05-20-2009, 10:42 AM

I adopted that approach a long time ago but, for me, this time is different.

Plus my disagreement here is that Abrams was so gung-ho about bringing Star Trek to a new audience. Congrats. He's done that swimmingly and with great expense. But now, instead of coming up with an inventive new adventure to engage his intrepid crew, he wants to revamp an old, classic and very dear story.

It's showing a lack of innovation and creativity on his part. I don't think that's whining.

Necross · 05-20-2009, 10:44 AM

I'm just gonna not say anything because discussing something like this is pointless, its not like I'm somehow going to convince you that what I think is right, so what the **** is the point? If I even had an opinion, I don't care one way or another if they use old stuff or new stuff, as long as it entertains me. Its not like it could be an entertaining debate, its like Star Trek is an exhibit in a museum and theres a bunch of guards screaming DON'T TOUCH! Time to giggle and be glad!

Knerys · 05-20-2009, 11:01 AM

I'm not looking or asking anyone to be convinced!

What has happened to the art of conversation? Discussing points just because we can? You'll all like to jump on the "whatever" train and don't care to see the other side or base it to whining. Right there, I'm giving you to opportunity to help me see your side. Yeah I'll either agree or disagree but that doesn't mean I don't want to understand.

Star Trek is a very dear thing to me and while I glad people are interested I'm torn at the way Abrams is handling it. So help me see the good in it! It is possible to have a conversation without it deteriorating into mayhem.

Boiiinng · 05-20-2009, 01:20 PM

I am much more eager to listen to the genuine disappointment of the real fan, than to the critic who lacks investment. -Bernard White

Panther2000 · 05-20-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necross

Its a new approach I've adopted, not just for Star Trek, but most movie review and comingsoon threads are constant complaining lately, there has always been complaining yes, but lately its been unbelieveable, and rather than get annoyed by it anymore, I'm just gonna be done with it and laugh.

You can find that issue on just about every Movie/Entertainment board. You got to Pick & choose I guess once it gets to a certain point. But, some places are just really bad. This board is still somewhat civil, I have seen worse.

Quote:

Abrams was so gung-ho about bringing Star Trek to a new audience. Congrats. He's done that swimmingly and with great expense. But now, instead of coming up with an inventive new adventure to engage his intrepid crew, he wants to revamp an old, classic and very dear story.

I have to agree. I wan't something new also. It could be a race that we have seen before but a new story PLEASE. No re-hasing, Been there, Done that.

**JBond** · 05-20-2009, 02:55 PM

Ha ha. "Whatever" train. Classic.

FranklinTard · 05-20-2009, 04:55 PM

be awesome if he just left all the actors and characters in their place, and just went after a TNG remake to really piss off your trekkies.

it would also be a cool semantical twist to the word sequel.

Just Drums · 05-20-2009, 05:54 PM

I'm 39 and am a fan of all Trek. TOS all the way thru DS9 & ENT. The only one I never could grab onto was VOY. Somehow VOY just seemed like a tired, stale copy of TNG but that's just my opinion.

I actually really enjoyed the new movie. Sure, it felt different and had a different style. But IMO, it needed to. All of my non-Trek fans came out loving the film. And most (but not all) of my Trek fans loved it too.

I don't think it was perfect by any means but...I still thought it was damn good. There's too many things to list that I DID like but the few nit-picky things I wasn't crazy about was:

1-Red Matter. What? Very vague and ambiguous. Just some really strong stuff that can stop/implode a star. OK. Right. (But in Abrams defense, he did NOT want to focus on all the geeky-science speak so often found in Trek. Not important to good story telling).

2 - Didn't like the fact that orig crew just happened to all come together anyways. Scotty was a bored lonely tech on a icy-planet who just happened bump into old Spock and essentially hitchhike back onto ENT. Talk about luck and the odds...

3 - Speaking of odds. What are the odds of Kirk being banished from the ship on a planet with a lonely science outpost (Scotty). Not only is he with walking distance of Scotty but hey...looks who's also hear. Old Spock. What are the odds.

4 - Icy planet chase scenes. I didn't need extra extra action of being chased by an alien polar bear and a giant red ant to tie force Kirk to run into a cave and hey look...it's old Spock.

With all that said, there dozens of things I did love about the film.

I didn't see Abrams as using cheap devices like time travel or relying on old stale characters and plot devices and some of you did. I also didn't see the AU aspect as a cheap way of being able to "do his own thing". I think he handled it with great care, threw the old fans MANY bones and little winks, and the whole AU was pretty creative.

Call me crazy but I like it now that it's different. A new spin. I like the fact that Vulcan is gone and Vulcans are far and few. I like the fact that Pike lived and Kirk's dad died unexpectedly - thus changing Kirk's youth. I find it interesting and refreshing. If I want Trek just the way it way...I'll watch the old films on DVD.

Thumbs up from me to Abrams.

Knerys · 05-21-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranklinTard

be awesome if he just left all the actors and characters in their place, and just went after a TNG remake to really piss off your trekkies.

it would also be a cool semantical twist to the word sequel.

It's a funny observation that this movie hasn't so much pushed Trekkies in the accepted mainstream, like Lord of the Rings did, but rather given people new fodder to ridicule them with.

Abrams can make his sequel. He just hire better writers. And leave Khan alone.

Just Drums · 05-21-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knerys

It's a funny observation that this movie hasn't so much pushed Trekkies in the accepted mainstream, like Lord of the Rings did, but rather given people new fodder to ridicule them with.

Abrams can make his sequel. He just hire better writers. And leave Khan alone.

Now that I agree with 100%. There's absolutely no need to mess with Khan. Or time travel. Or Borg. He made a good start....now he needs go do something original. Which he's good at BTW IMO (Lost, Cloverfield, etc).

FranklinTard · 05-21-2009, 12:34 PM

ugh, he didn't write lost...

Boiiinng · 05-21-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knerys

It's a funny observation that this movie hasn't so much pushed Trekkies in the accepted mainstream, like Lord of the Rings did, but rather given people new fodder to ridicule them with.

Abrams can make his sequel. He just hire better writers. And leave Khan alone.

I hope so. I've hardly read any novels from this time period but I'm sure there are some really good ones out there that he can use or at least use as a starting point. No reason to jump ahead to an older Kirk. Keep 'em young, keep the same cast and do something new. That should be the top priority of any artist.

Boiiinng · 05-21-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranklinTard

ugh, he didn't write lost...

Isn't he credited as a writer? I guess he may not write every single word on the scripts, but I doubt he has no influence over the story.

Panther2000 · 05-21-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Drums

I'm 39 and am a fan of all Trek. TOS all the way thru DS9 & ENT. The only one I never could grab onto was VOY. Somehow VOY just seemed like a tired, stale copy of TNG but that's just my opinion.

I actually really enjoyed the new movie. Sure, it felt different and had a different style. But IMO, it needed to. All of my non-Trek fans came out loving the film. And most (but not all) of my Trek fans loved it too.

I don't think it was perfect by any means but...I still thought it was damn good. There's too many things to list that I DID like but the few nit-picky things I wasn't crazy about was:

1-Red Matter. What? Very vague and ambiguous. Just some really strong stuff that can stop/implode a star. OK. Right. (But in Abrams defense, he did NOT want to focus on all the geeky-science speak so often found in Trek. Not important to good story telling).

2 - Didn't like the fact that orig crew just happened to all come together anyways. Scotty was a bored lonely tech on a icy-planet who just happened bump into old Spock and essentially hitchhike back onto ENT. Talk about luck and the odds...

3 - Speaking of odds. What are the odds of Kirk being banished from the ship on a planet with a lonely science outpost (Scotty). Not only is he with walking distance of Scotty but hey...looks who's also hear. Old Spock. What are the odds.

4 - Icy planet chase scenes. I didn't need extra extra action of being chased by an alien polar bear and a giant red ant to tie force Kirk to run into a cave and hey look...it's old Spock.

With all that said, there dozens of things I did love about the film.

I didn't see Abrams as using cheap devices like time travel or relying on old stale characters and plot devices and some of you did. I also didn't see the AU aspect as a cheap way of being able to "do his own thing". I think he handled it with great care, threw the old fans MANY bones and little winks, and the whole AU was pretty creative.

Call me crazy but I like it now that it's different. A new spin. I like the fact that Vulcan is gone and Vulcans are far and few. I like the fact that Pike lived and Kirk's dad died unexpectedly - thus changing Kirk's youth. I find it interesting and refreshing. If I want Trek just the way it way...I'll watch the old films on DVD.

Thumbs up from me to Abrams.

Thumbs up for you. I am on board with this about 90%

Tornado · 05-21-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boiiinng

Isn't he credited as a writer? I guess he may not write every single word on the scripts, but I doubt he has no influence over the story.

Abrams had a very limited role in the show after its initial creation and the shooting of the pilot. Abrams stepped down really early on in the show's production, as he was busy with Mission Impossible III when Season 1 was getting underway. Carlton Cuse was brought in to essentially take his place. The only involvement Abrams has had with the show since the very early days of Season 1 was his directing of Season 3's premiere A Tale of Two Cities and one of the mobisodes.

Knerys · 05-21-2009, 02:19 PM

Maybe he should set the record straight then, since everyone (not just here) keeps associating him with the show.

Boiiinng · 05-21-2009, 03:13 PM

Well, on Wiki it says that he helped map out a 5-6 season storyline when the show was about to be discarded. I would say that gives him writing credit of the show, regardless of whether he develops every little detail or not.

Tornado · 05-21-2009, 04:01 PM

1. The show was never close to being "discarded." After just four episodes, the show was picked up for a full season.

2. Abrams helped map out the initial setting of the show, yes. But the general interpretation of the "Lost story behind the scenes" is that after the first few episodes of the series, Abrams bailed because he was still heavily working on Alias. Carlton Cuse stepped in to take his place. And the "Lost Bible" you're referring to wasn't really planned out until Season 1 was over, and Abrams was long gone (at least on the day-to-day basis anyway; he was still mildly active through Season 3).

Also, the Wiki article (unless I'm mistaken) was referring to these quotes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lindelof

We're proceeding as if they are going to allow us to do what we plan, which is a four- or five-season arc with potentially a movie to wrap it up. My guess is they'll realize that the endgame is in play when major characters start getting bumped off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abrams

During the period of preproduction, production, and postproduction, we worked on a bible of the series. Ideas have fallen by the wayside or haven't happened; some ideas actually have. But for the most part, it was a leap of faith. It was beginning something that had a lot of big ideas, and believing in an ending.

The wiki makes it seem much more structured than it actually was.

sshuttari · 05-22-2009, 11:33 AM

The one thing that I find really annoying in this new star trek is the Engineering room looks like some kind of factory.

For some reason he does that everything he has his name on. Same factory looking thing in Alias, Lost, and MI:3.

Also going back to the Kahn idea, if they can pull of off Kahn story like someone who is really strong and intelligent like in Dark Knight then maybe it is okay for me anyway that they keep Kahn.

Knerys · 05-22-2009, 07:07 PM

For the last time it's KHAN! >_<

Boiiinng · 05-22-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado

1. The show was never close to being "discarded." After just four episodes, the show was picked up for a full season.

I was referring to the time before Abrams when it says two scripts were turned down by the head of ABC. If the 3rd would have failed, I would bet the show would have never got off the ground.

I just started watching it online. I never started it on TV because I was already in the middle of the ALIAS 5 yr story and didn't want to start another.

I am enjoying it a lot. I hope they keep everything online for a while. I'm amazed that they actually have all 5 seasons on there for free.

Tornado · 05-22-2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boiiinng

I was referring to the time before Abrams when it says two scripts were turned down by the head of ABC. If the 3rd would have failed, I would bet the show would have never got off the ground.

Well, Abrams was brought in before it had become "Lost." Before him, it was Castaway: The Series as the producers like to call it. It wasn't until after the series was picked up that they really started to think about how they would take the story to 4-5 years. The show we (I?) know and love was never close to being discarded.

Arlius · 05-23-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sshuttari

The one thing that I find really annoying in this new star trek is the Engineering room looks like some kind of factory.

For some reason he does that everything he has his name on. Same factory looking thing in Alias, Lost, and MI:3.

It was a brewery used for engineering! I hope they spend some money and build their own set next time. The writers mentioned something about wanting to have an "analog" look. Like the future is closer within our reach than typical sterile sci-fi environments usually make you feel. I can dig that, but I don't like seeing beer vats being used for warp cores.

Pig Vomit · 05-26-2009, 04:23 AM

My main Q and concern is: where are we going with this?

Is this a temporary ST fix or are we reimaging all things ST?

I prefer a continuation of the established Trek timeline before the new movie came out. If it had meant a 10 year break then so be it. It happened before when Tos went off the air. It took some time before the public was ready for new Trek.

I'll watch the new movie on dvd but not at the theatre. The reason being the question I posed at the beginning of my post.....

Where is this leading?

Boiiinng · 05-26-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pig Vomit

My main Q and concern is: where are we going with this?

Is this a temporary ST fix or are we reimaging all things ST?

I prefer a continuation of the established Trek timeline before the new movie came out. If it had meant a 10 year break then so be it. It happened before when Tos went off the air. It took some time before the public was ready for new Trek.

I'll watch the new movie on dvd but not at the theatre. The reason being the question I posed at the beginning of my post.....

Where is this leading?

Same question I had. Where are they going? And why for that matter? I never got a real sense of necessary continuance at the end of this film. It was a one-shot to me. A "What If?" in the comic book world. But I don't see a point in really doing any more movies, except to make money.

05-20-2009, 10:42 AM	#26
Knerys 1701 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Qo'noS Posts: 32,036	I adopted that approach a long time ago but, for me, this time is different. Plus my disagreement here is that Abrams was so gung-ho about bringing Star Trek to a new audience. Congrats. He's done that swimmingly and with great expense. But now, instead of coming up with an inventive new adventure to engage his intrepid crew, he wants to revamp an old, classic and very dear story. It's showing a lack of innovation and creativity on his part. I don't think that's whining. __________________ "I have been and always shall be your friend."

05-20-2009, 10:44 AM	#27
Necross Master Fanboy Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Made it back, missing the two I loved most. Posts: 10,862	I'm just gonna not say anything because discussing something like this is pointless, its not like I'm somehow going to convince you that what I think is right, so what the **** is the point? If I even had an opinion, I don't care one way or another if they use old stuff or new stuff, as long as it entertains me. Its not like it could be an entertaining debate, its like Star Trek is an exhibit in a museum and theres a bunch of guards screaming DON'T TOUCH! Time to giggle and be glad! __________________ Charlie's Greatist Hits 5. The First Time I Heard Myself On The Radio 4. Dad Teaching Me To Swim at Butlins 3. The Christmas Liam Gave Me The Ring 2. Woman Outside Covent Gardens Calls Me a Hero 1. The Night I Met You. "...realized I really like Charlie, something about him that's just so adorable and sweet. Even in a scary place like this, Charlie makes me feel safe." Last edited by Necross; 05-20-2009 at 10:46 AM.

05-20-2009, 11:01 AM	#28
Knerys 1701 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Qo'noS Posts: 32,036	I'm not looking or asking anyone to be convinced! What has happened to the art of conversation? Discussing points just because we can? You'll all like to jump on the "whatever" train and don't care to see the other side or base it to whining. Right there, I'm giving you to opportunity to help me see your side. Yeah I'll either agree or disagree but that doesn't mean I don't want to understand. Star Trek is a very dear thing to me and while I glad people are interested I'm torn at the way Abrams is handling it. So help me see the good in it! It is possible to have a conversation without it deteriorating into mayhem. __________________ "I have been and always shall be your friend."

05-20-2009, 01:20 PM	#29
Boiiinng Done with this. Join Date: May 2003 Location: Not here. Posts: 5,353	I am much more eager to listen to the genuine disappointment of the real fan, than to the critic who lacks investment. -Bernard White __________________ Discussions that go nowhere, cross pollination of spoilers, it's just not worth it anymore. Cya.

05-20-2009, 02:55 PM	#31
JBond Feed me Join Date: May 2000 Location: SR388 Posts: 67,516	Ha ha. "Whatever" train. Classic. __________________ The due date for Round 135 of the CS Film Club is Monday, May 20th, 2013. 59 out of 64 Hugo Award winners completed. "Die Hard 5 makes Die Hard 4 look like Die Hard 1" - Doomsday

05-20-2009, 04:55 PM	#32
FranklinTard Damn,ThatsAColdAssHonkey Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 15,734	be awesome if he just left all the actors and characters in their place, and just went after a TNG remake to really piss off your trekkies. it would also be a cool semantical twist to the word sequel. __________________ Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well- warmed, and well-fed. -Herman Melville (1819 - 1891)

05-20-2009, 05:54 PM	#33
Just Drums Grip Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 21	I'm 39 and am a fan of all Trek. TOS all the way thru DS9 & ENT. The only one I never could grab onto was VOY. Somehow VOY just seemed like a tired, stale copy of TNG but that's just my opinion. I actually really enjoyed the new movie. Sure, it felt different and had a different style. But IMO, it needed to. All of my non-Trek fans came out loving the film. And most (but not all) of my Trek fans loved it too. I don't think it was perfect by any means but...I still thought it was damn good. There's too many things to list that I DID like but the few nit-picky things I wasn't crazy about was: 1-Red Matter. What? Very vague and ambiguous. Just some really strong stuff that can stop/implode a star. OK. Right. (But in Abrams defense, he did NOT want to focus on all the geeky-science speak so often found in Trek. Not important to good story telling). 2 - Didn't like the fact that orig crew just happened to all come together anyways. Scotty was a bored lonely tech on a icy-planet who just happened bump into old Spock and essentially hitchhike back onto ENT. Talk about luck and the odds... 3 - Speaking of odds. What are the odds of Kirk being banished from the ship on a planet with a lonely science outpost (Scotty). Not only is he with walking distance of Scotty but hey...looks who's also hear. Old Spock. What are the odds. 4 - Icy planet chase scenes. I didn't need extra extra action of being chased by an alien polar bear and a giant red ant to tie force Kirk to run into a cave and hey look...it's old Spock. With all that said, there dozens of things I did love about the film. I didn't see Abrams as using cheap devices like time travel or relying on old stale characters and plot devices and some of you did. I also didn't see the AU aspect as a cheap way of being able to "do his own thing". I think he handled it with great care, threw the old fans MANY bones and little winks, and the whole AU was pretty creative. Call me crazy but I like it now that it's different. A new spin. I like the fact that Vulcan is gone and Vulcans are far and few. I like the fact that Pike lived and Kirk's dad died unexpectedly - thus changing Kirk's youth. I find it interesting and refreshing. If I want Trek just the way it way...I'll watch the old films on DVD. Thumbs up from me to Abrams.

05-21-2009, 12:34 PM	#36
FranklinTard Damn,ThatsAColdAssHonkey Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 15,734	ugh, he didn't write lost... __________________ Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well- warmed, and well-fed. -Herman Melville (1819 - 1891)

05-21-2009, 02:19 PM	#41
Knerys 1701 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Qo'noS Posts: 32,036	Maybe he should set the record straight then, since everyone (not just here) keeps associating him with the show. __________________ "I have been and always shall be your friend."

05-21-2009, 03:13 PM	#42
Boiiinng Done with this. Join Date: May 2003 Location: Not here. Posts: 5,353	Well, on Wiki it says that he helped map out a 5-6 season storyline when the show was about to be discarded. I would say that gives him writing credit of the show, regardless of whether he develops every little detail or not. __________________ Discussions that go nowhere, cross pollination of spoilers, it's just not worth it anymore. Cya.

05-22-2009, 07:07 PM	#45
Knerys 1701 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Qo'noS Posts: 32,036	For the last time it's KHAN! >_< __________________ "I have been and always shall be your friend."

05-26-2009, 04:23 AM	#49
Pig Vomit Grip Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: colorado Posts: 18	My main Q and concern is: where are we going with this? Is this a temporary ST fix or are we reimaging all things ST? I prefer a continuation of the established Trek timeline before the new movie came out. If it had meant a 10 year break then so be it. It happened before when Tos went off the air. It took some time before the public was ready for new Trek. I'll watch the new movie on dvd but not at the theatre. The reason being the question I posed at the beginning of my post..... Where is this leading?