Dracula (et al.)'s Top Ten Thread

[JBond]

There isn't one on the US flag...?

[Ramplate]

No, but the spider on the dollar bill has Saturday night special.

[Alien]

Any flag with a gun on it would earn automatic disqualification from my list.

[Dracula]

Top Ten Reasons Spider-Man 1 Does Not Hold Up

There's been some talk of Spider-Man 1 vs. Spider-Man 2 in some of the other threads, so I thought I'd make a definitive statement about why I don't think SP1 is all that good in retrospect.

10. Stupid Patriotic Stuff

We all know that Spider-Man had to pull a lot of advertising material after the September 11th attacks, but it’s also pretty obvious that they added some stuff to the movie in order to get in on the flag waving craze. For one thing, the damn movie ends on Spiderman juxtaposed with a giant American flag. More egregious is the semi-infamous “you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us” scene. I’m not actually all that opposed to the sentiment here, but I don’t see how a bunch of dudes throwing bottles off a bridge is really going to be that much of a deterrent to The Green Goblin, who could have easily killed all those people.

9. It Made the World Think James Franco and Kirsten Dunst Were Lame

I guess this could go for the sequels as well, but it was the original film that set the tone. Both Dunst and Franco would prove to be talented performers in films like 127 Hours and Melencholia, but their careers hit big snags early on because they just seemed really lame in Spider-Man. Franco just seems to be on auto-pilot in these movies (kind of like his Oscar hosting gigs) and Dunst is given nothing to do and just seems like a waste of space. I’ve never even hated Dunst’s performance as Mary Jane as much as some people, but she certainly doesn’t bring a whole lot to the table either and I can see why she’d get a bad reputation.

8. “It’s you who’s out gobbie, out of your mind”

The scene in the burning house has a lot of weird stuff in it. It’s got The Green Goblin masquerading in an old woman’s shall, it’s got a really awkward effects shot where Spider-Man bullet-time dodges a bunch of the Goblin’s blades but what really takes the cake is this insanely bizarre moment where Spider-Man comes out with this absurd line of dialogue: “it’s you who’s out gobbie, out of you mind.” What the hell? Do they have Robin writing this guy’s lines or something? If you ever wondered why Spider-Man was less prone to wisecracking in the original trilogy, this is why.

7. It Lacks a Certain Epic Quality

The first Spider-Man is the only movie in the series to be shot in the less cinematic 1.85:1 aspect ratio as opposed to the 2.35:1 ratio that is the norm for blockbusters of this scope. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but it speaks to the way that the movie looks kind of small scale by comparison. The effects aren’t fully formed yet and the action scenes are a pale shadow of what would be the norm in this genre over the next decade, they even seem kind of lame when compared to Spider-Man 3. Of course some of this can be attributed to the fact that the film is something of a trailblazer in the superhero genre, but when you compare it to comparably sized blockbusters of the era like the Star Wars prequels or The Matrix it still feels kind of small and insubstantial.

6. Peter Does Dumb Stuff That Would Give Away his Identity

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

There’s a certain point where you just have to accept the unrealism of a super hero being able to hold a secret identity, but some filmmakers play really fast and loose with this stuff. Spider-Man is a particularly egregious example of this because Peter recklessly displays his strength and agility in fights with bullies and even walks around a cafeteria with webbing coming out of his hands… and no one puts two and two together. The most funny thing is that a decade later Marc Webb would make the same stupid mistake all over again.

5. The Last Temptation of Peter Parker

There’s so much wrong with this one scene that I’m not exactly sure where to begin. Well, for one thing, the sequence starts when Spider-Man interrupts an attack on the Daily Bugle only to have The Green Goblin shoot him with tranquilizer gas. That’s a strange scene to begin with but the Goblin actually says “sleeeeeep” as he’s gassing Spider-Man in the most “nails on a chaulkboard way that’s possible. After this we get a truly bizarre scene where The Green Goblin has Spider-Man held captive and instead of simply “squashing him like a bug” or at least taking his mask off he makes some idiotic offer to team up with Spider-Man for evil ends. What an idiot.

4. Wrestling?

I know the whole wrestling thing was in the comics, but this would be a pretty obvious choice of something to change. First of all, wrestling isn’t real… except in this movie where it apparently is. Secondly, who in their right mind would stage un-simulated wrestling matches where civilians are asked to fight with Macho Man Randy Savage, that’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. The kids reading comics back in the early sixties might have had a less sophisticated idea of how pro-wrestling worked, but it just seems ridiculous in a modern blockbuster. Also, Spider-Man tells a homophobic joke in this scene, and that’s looking more and more awkward as the years go by.

3. There’s a Damn Nickleback Song in the Credits:

Alright, technically this is a solo song bay Nickleback lead singer Chad Kroeger, but it sure sounds like a Nickleback song and I’m not exactly sure why Kroeger felt it necessary to make the distinction. Of course there is a long tradition of terrible instantly-dated songs being tacked on to movies but this seems particularly egregious given that Spider-Man is a big enough property that it shouldn’t need a tie in with a horrid Canadian post-grunge band in order to sell itself.

2. The Green Goblin Costume

I know I’m beating a dead horse with this one, but come on, that costume is GARBAGE. I’m not necessarily saying that they needed to be completely true to the comics and give him latex makeup or something, but the design they did decide to go with is just awful. It’s so bad that it completely undermines an otherwise interesting Willem Dafoe performance and it just makes every scene with the character seem like a joke. This makes Joel Schumacher’s batman suit with the nipples look not so bad.

1. The Bridge Scene is a Cheat

Most of the other things I’m complaining about are at least somewhat superficial, they add up to a lot of frustration, but to some extent they come down to taste. This scene on the other hand is just a lazy inexcusable cop-out. I a riff on the famous Gwen Stacy scene from the comic books, The Green Goblin brings Mary Jane to the top of the George Washington Bridge and sets up a dilemma for Spider-Man: does he save a train-car full of kids or does he save his girl-friend? Instead of forcing him to make this choice the movie just kind of lets him save both of them without too much effort. Come on. In a comparable scene in The Dark Knight Batman is asked to either save the heroic D.A. or his girlfriend and while his ultimate choice is ultimately subverted by The Joker’s trickery they at least do force Batman to make a choice and one of the two people in distress is killed because of it.

[IanTheCool]

Those are some good points.

[MasterChief117]

Agreed on most points. I do like the bullet time, Spidey dodge of the spinning whatever the hell you'd call those thingmabobbers. But I agree, the whole line is INCREDIBLY cheesy. The entire film is cheesy.

[Alien]

The flag thing only got worse as the movies went on. Movie #3 was the worst with Spider-Man randomly running by a massive flag in what I've often called the gratuitous flag shot.


I also noticed a flag shot in The Amazing Spider-Man but thankfully it was much more subtle.

[PG Cooper]

Most of these are pretty valid, but I feel like the Nickelback song is a nitpick given if you don't stay for the credits you'd never know it was there.

[Dracula]

Originally Posted by PG Cooper

Most of these are pretty valid, but I feel like the Nickelback song is a nitpick given if you don't stay for the credits you'd never know it was there.

That's like saying that someone spitting into your burger is a nitpick because you probably won't really taste it.

[Neverending]

Originally Posted by Dracula

10. Stupid Patriotic Stuff

In other words, Dracula hates America.

9. It Made the World Think James Franco and Kirsten Dunst Were Lame

Spider-Man was released during the era where people thought Kirsten Dunst was hot. And the infamous hard-nipples scene only added to that. So, I don't know if I'd call her lame. As for Franco, he did nothing of importance in-between that James Dean TV movie and Pineapple Express. So, I wouldn't blame Spider-Man. I would blame him, his choices, and his representatives.

7. It Lacks a Certain Epic Quality

Spider-Man wasn't initially gonna be a "blockbuster." It had a much lower budget than the rest of the series. Not as low-budget as Bryan Singer's X-Men which was ridiculously under-budgeted at an embarrassing $70 million, but still in that range of under $100 million. The surprise success of X-Men motivated Sony to increase the budget, but most of that money went towards the CGI effects and not the action set-pieces. The budget ended being $139 million. By comparison, Spider-Man 2 cost $200 million and Spider-Man 3 cost $258 million.

6. Peter Does Dumb Stuff That Would Give Away his Identity

You gave "Spidey 2" four stars and in that movie he reveals his identity to a train full of people. In addition to MJ and the villains. At least Green Goblin had to figure out.

instead of simply “squashing him like a bug” or at least taking his mask off he makes some idiotic offer to team up with Spider-Man for evil ends. What an idiot.

It's a superhero movie. It goes with the territory.

4. Wrestling?

You can nitpick it to death, but it was a fun scene.

Spider-Man tells a homophobic joke in this scene

3. There’s a Damn Nickleback Song in the Credits

As PG Cooper said, it's not in the actual movie so who cares?

they at least do force Batman to make a choice

He sent Commissioner Gordon after Rachel... so not really.

[Dracula]

Originally Posted by Neverending

As for Franco, he did nothing of importance in-between that James Dean TV movie and Pineapple Express. So, I wouldn't blame Spider-Man. I would blame him, his choices, and his representatives.

If he wasn't known as "that bland guy from the Spider-Man movies" he might have gotten some better roles

Originally Posted by Neverending

Spider-Man wasn't initially gonna be a "blockbuster." It had a much lower budget than the rest of the series.

Then I guess they shouldn't have done that.

Originally Posted by Neverending

You gave "Spidey 2" four stars and in that movie he reveals his identity to a train full of people. In addition to MJ and the villains. At least Green Goblin had to figure out.

Both of those reveals were accidents caused by his desire to save people, not teenage cockiness. Also, neither of those reveals had the "why aren't these people putting two and two together factor."

Originally Posted by Neverending

It's a superhero movie. It goes with the territory.

It goes with the territory for bad superhero movies

Originally Posted by Neverending

You can nitpick it to death, but it was a fun scene.

It was a dumb and overlong scene that brings the movie to a halt.

Originally Posted by Neverending

As PG Cooper said, it's not in the actual movie so who cares?

It still sucks

Originally Posted by Neverending

He sent Commissioner Gordon after Rachel... so not really.

And that didn't work, did it.

[JBond]

So what happens in the bridge scene in the comics?

[Neverending]

Originally Posted by Dracula

If he wasn't known as "that bland guy from the Spider-Man movies" he might have gotten some better roles

Freaks and Geeks and that James Dean TV movie showed-off his acting chops. There was no excuse.

Then I guess they shouldn't have done that.

I'm not gonna blame a lower-budgeted movie for its lack of "epicness." The festival battle and the bridge scene were both impressive considering their original budget. This is like getting mad at Richard Donner because all the flying scenes look fake in Superman.

neither of those reveals had the "why aren't these people putting two and two together factor."

All those scenes you described happened before he was Spider-Man. He became Spider-Man after he graduated from high school. And even if they bothered to remember that lunchtime fist fight, they're not gonna remember all the details like Peter dragging the lunch tray across the floor. They'll just be like, "oh, remember when Peter threw food at Flash and then they fought by the lockers?"

It goes with the territory for bad superhero movies

Nah. All superhero films have silly stuff in it. Do you really need Doomsday and I to break apart Chris Nolan's Batman for the 100th time?

brings the movie to a halt.

It was an energetic scene with Bruce Campbell and Randy Savage. Nothing came to a halt.

And that didn't work, did it.

Batman is dark. Spider-Man isn't. It's this mentality that led to Marc Webb's movie. As well as all the "dark and gritty" superhero movies. Everything doesn't have to be serious. You can have light-hearted and fun superhero movies as well. I'd rather have a balanced and diversed genre instead of everyone just riding on Chris Nolan's c--k for the next decade.

[Dracula]

Originally Posted by Neverending

I'm not gonna blame a lower-budgeted movie for its lack of "epicness." The festival battle and the bridge scene were both impressive considering their original budget. This is like getting mad at Richard Donner because all the flying scenes look fake in Superman.

Donner's Superman was a top of the line production in '76, Spider-Man wasn't. And it's not like this was Robert Rodriguez making El Mariachi or something, this was a tentpole effects movie, and for what it's worth it had more than twice the budget of the first Matrix film.

Originally Posted by Neverending

Nah. All superhero films have silly stuff in it. Do you really need Doomsday and I to break apart Chris Nolan's Batman for the 100th time?

The silly stuff in those movies are cool though. That rooftop scene in Spider-Man is laughable and just plain weird.

Originally Posted by Neverending

Batman is dark. Spider-Man isn't. It's this mentality that led to Marc Webb's movie. As well as all the "dark and gritty" superhero movies. Everything doesn't have to be serious. You can have light-hearted and fun superhero movies as well. I'd rather have a balanced and diversed genre instead of everyone just riding on Chris Nolan's c--k for the next decade.

The movie opened itself up to that criticism when it set up a dark dilemma for Spider-Man and didn't have the balls to see it through. It's like Spider-Man pulled a Kirk and cheated on the Kobayashi Maru, except without the long term character repercussions. If they didn't want to be dark they shouldn't have pulled the whole "who do you save" thing in the first place.

[FranklinTard]

Originally Posted by JBond

So what happens in the bridge scene in the comics?

spidey tries to save mary jane but she breaks her neck/back and dies as he catches her with his webs. a large moment in comics history.

[Dracula]

Originally Posted by FranklinTard

spidey tries to save mary jane but she breaks her neck as he catches her with his webs. truly a watershed mark in comics history.

It was Gwen Stacy actually.

And to be clear, the scenario in the movie isn't identical to the comic, the point should have been that he would have had to sacrifice Mary Jane (or someone else important to him) in order to save the many people in the train car... or he should have gone with his heart, saved Mary Jane and lived with the consequences of having let the people in the train car die. The point is that he was given a binary choice and the movie just decided to have its cake and eat it too.

[FranklinTard]

Shows how much I remember it... ha.

[Neverending]

Originally Posted by Dracula

Donner's Superman was a top of the line production in '76

Star Wars disagrees.

for what it's worth it had more than twice the budget of the first Matrix film.

The Matrix, bullet time or not, had conventional action sequences. It was shootouts and martial arts. Spider-Man has its main character swinging through New York City and the villain gliding through the air. It's not groundbreaking stuff, but it's more expensive.

just plain weird.

It's not weird. It's just camp.

it set up a dark dilemma

It's not dark dilemma. It's just an action scene adding tension and danger. This would be like criticizing Christopher Nolan for not killing Batman at the end of Dark Knight Rises.

[JBond]

Originally Posted by FranklinTard

spidey tries to save mary jane but she breaks her neck/back and dies as he catches her with his webs. a large moment in comics history.

Gee, thanks.

Originally Posted by Dracula

It was Gwen Stacy actually.

And to be clear, the scenario in the movie isn't identical to the comic, the point should have been that he would have had to sacrifice Mary Jane (or someone else important to him) in order to save the many people in the train car... or he should have gone with his heart, saved Mary Jane and lived with the consequences of having let the people in the train car die. The point is that he was given a binary choice and the movie just decided to have its cake and eat it too.

Oooooh...he's serious.

[Neverending]

Dracula will get his girlfriend killing in Marc Webb's sequel. Tears will shed when Emma Stone dies.

[JBond]

You think?

[Knerys]

Not that makes it any better, but wasn't Hero a duet with the lead singer of Saliva and Mr. Lead Singer of Nickleback...?