Sandy Hook Elementary

[Knerys]

Originally Posted by KUsubaruchick

One of the many, many things I don't understand about all these shootings is how often the person with the gun turns it on themselves after the crimes have been committed. Suicide is a subject that is very close to my heart, but if you've made up your mind to die why are you going to take so many innocents with you?

These people want to destroy. Suicide is a side effect, not the cause.

[Ramplate]

Originally Posted by Knerys

The stop is only three way from mine. :/

I try stand away from crowds on the platform as a rule. Rush hour on the elevated platforms can get sticky.

Yeah, I've seen several suggestions to stand quite a way away from the edge until a train actually stops there.
Be safe, and aware of your surroundings.

Originally Posted by KUsubaruchick

One of the many, many things I don't understand about all these shootings is how often the person with the gun turns it on themselves after the crimes have been committed. Suicide is a subject that is very close to my heart, but if you've made up your mind to die why are you going to take so many innocents with you?

Simply put, Misery Loves Company

[Neverending]

NRA vs. Hollywood

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

[Ramplate]

That's not an NRA made film - that's an individual calling themselves Mike Hunt

People who commit crimes because of something they saw in a movie would probably have the propensity to do those things anyway. If not the movies, something else would inspire them.
It's either already an antisocial personality or diseased mind at work

[Neverending]

Originally Posted by Ramplate

That's not an NRA made film - that's an individual calling themselves Mike Hunt

Regardless, it's a pro-gun person taking aim at Hollywood because they're the easiest to blame.

[FranklinTard]

i don't understand how people can argue that banning guns would make us less safe, no guns = no gun deaths, like i have said, england is a pretty damn good example of this.

the logistics of a gun ban is what people need to talk about, if they actually want it to happen. getting all the millions of guns back from people would be by far the hardest thing to do, i'd say damn near impossible and it would never happen, but that is the largest sticking point, not the logic behind a gun ban.

[Ramplate]

Even though I don't like guns, I don't think they should or could all be banned here - that would start an awful lot of skirmishes with militias, and the gun enthusiasts who's best defense is swearing at you and calling you dirty names for even suggesting they can't duck hunt with howitzers.

[Ramplate]

Just got another response from Senator Leahy about my last e-mail about guns.

Dear Mr. Xxxxx:



Thank you for contacting me with your concerns relating to gun safety in Vermont. I appreciate hearing from you on such an important issue and apologize for the delay in my response.



I am neither a member of any group that supports either side of the gun control debate, nor do I agree with any one philosophy regarding gun control. I do believe, however, that Congress has a responsibility to pass effective legislation that will actually make progress in ensuring firearms are handled safely and appropriately. Congress also has a responsibility, in my view, to give great deference to state and local law enforcement officials in setting their own policies given the different needs of each state and county.



Your idea for a gun safety course is both rational and reasonable, and would no doubt help save lives. With that said, as a sitting United States senator, my legislative responsibilities are limited only to the federal government, and this sort of proposal would be best implemented at the state level. I would encourage you to contact your local state senators and representatives to advance this issue with the State of Vermont (for a list of contacts, please visit http://www.leg.state.vt.us/).



In light of the recent tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut, I anticipate that in the 113th Congress the Senate will consider many gun control proposals, and will take a close look at improving federal firearms policy. I look at legislative proposals regarding gun control based on their merits and vote on them accordingly. As gun control legislation comes before the Senate, you can be sure I will be sure to keep your thoughts in mind. Thank you for contacting me and please do not hesitate to do so in the future.



Sincerely,

PATRICK LEAHY
United States Senator

So I replied:


Dear Sir,

Thank you for your response to my latest e-mail.
In it I suggested that mandatory gun safety courses would do a great deal in avoiding more tragedy due to careless use and storage of weapons.

In your reply you said:

"Your idea for a gun safety course is both rational and reasonable, and would no doubt help save lives. With that said, as a sitting United States senator, my legislative responsibilities are limited only to the federal government, and this sort of proposal would be best implemented at the state level. I would encourage you to contact your local state senators and representatives to advance this issue with the State of Vermont."

I have to respectfully disagree with leaving it up to each state as that is a patchwork solution at best - I believe such an action should be nation wide to be a more effective measure for everyone.
Different laws in different states concerning topics of dangerous conduct of any kind only leads to gaps in the whole system - some states will not act as responsibly as others.

Thank you for your time,
Xxxxxx X. Xxxxx

Also if anyone is interested in signing a petition for creation of a national gun safety course http://wh.gov/UvSY

[Ramplate]

Never say "Oh it can't happen here"
This news is from Bennington, VT which is only 16 miles from my house. I have been in Mount Anthony High School dozens of times, and driven by it hundreds of times

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

Friday January 4, 2013

BENNINGTON, Vt. -- A local teacher surrendered a Bushmaster semi-automatic rifle to police Monday, shortly after raising public safety concerns through videos and statements he posted on the Internet.

Steven Davis, a beloved science and math teacher at Mount Anthony Union High School for the past nine years, has been hospitalized since Monday following a mental health evaluation, according to Bennington Police Chief Paul Doucette.

Upon advice of police, Davis was voluntarily transported to Southwestern Vermont Medical Center, although Doucette said on Wednesday that Davis is now being held at the hospital. Davis is on administrative leave from his teaching position.

Davis purchased the AR-15 military-style rifle in April 2009, along with two high-capacity magazines and 500 rounds of ammunition. The gun and magazines were surrendered to police Monday and police later confiscated the ammunition during a search of his home that was permitted by a family member.

Neighbors asked police to do a welfare check on Davis after seeing him carry the rifle to his vehicle Sunday evening. Davis then voluntarily surrendered the gun, telling police he put it in the trunk of his car in order to bring it to a storage unit he recently rented.

"This weapon was in a case. It has a trigger lock installed, but it was alarming to find two, 30-round, high-capacity magazines loaded," Doucette said.

Davis told police he purchased the gun as an interest at the time, but the gun has never been fired.

"Based on my experiences as a firearms instructor here and looking at the weapon, I do not believe he's ever fired the weapon. He has, in fact, indicated that he has never fired the weapon. There are no scrape marks or scuffs on the magazines or the magazine well, which, again, would indicate to me that he has never fired the weapon," Doucette said.

After the welfare check Sunday evening, Davis' wife and children went to stay with a relative. She sought a restraining order the following day. In the order, his wife stated she was unaware that Davis owned a gun and said she and others have noticed a change in Davis' personality over the last month.

On Monday morning, Davis began posting videos that criticized school administrators, the teachers union and co-workers, among a slew of other topics. Davis also sent a school-wide email saying he would "remove the union and all of the teachers who are negatively affecting the children in this town."

"I think that he's probably driven at this point and wants to get out and push some of his ideas forward. There's no doubt in my mind, at all, that he's very concerned about the way that he's been treated by the supervisory union. He's very angry at the teachers union itself for going on strike last year," Doucette said.

The content Davis posted online struck fear in some members of the community as well as co-workers and students who were concerned for Davis' safety.

"We were getting inundated with telephone calls from school teachers because he was sending out emails. He was posting stuff on Facebook and it became disturbing to some people," Doucette said.

After viewing the content Davis posted, Doucette asked him to come to the station to speak, which Davis did voluntarily. Doucette said some of the statements made by Davis during that meeting were alarming.

"He indicated to me that he was very unhappy with some staff at the supervisory union here and he was unhappy with the education that some of the children and students are receiving here at the Mount Anthony Union High School. He indicated that there were some teachers that needed to be gone from the school," Doucette said. "He never came out and threatened the teachers in any way, he just said it was time for change. But, when he started going on about reading CIA manuals and he talked about looking into military training and things like that, I became alarmed. My staff became even more alarmed and we became concerned about the safety of the teachers at the school and the safety of the community."

Doucette said he previously met Davis at a school function several years ago and met him again two weeks ago when Davis wanted to talk about ways to improve the community. Doucette said something was different when he spoke to Davis on Monday.

"It just didn't seem right. With my position, I'm concerned about public safety and the safety of this community. It just didn't seem right. I just felt something was wrong with him," Doucette said. "He was on this crusade where he wanted to see improvements and it was now time for improvements."

Doucette characterized Davis as "driven," but very intelligent and particular in the way he worded things.

"It seems like he wants to improve the community, but at the same time, he's definitely not going about it the right way and some of his actions are definitely alarming and raise a concern for public safety," Doucette said.

The seizure of Davis' gun comes on the heels of a massacre in Newtown, Conn., in which 26 people -- including 20 first-graders ages 6 and 7 -- were gunned down in a school by a man with the same model Bushmaster AR-15 semi-automatic rifle. That Dec. 14 shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School shocked the nation and raised renewed calls for enhanced gun control laws and mental health awareness and treatment.

The Newtown shooting also raised questions about the safety and security of schools. Several days after the shooting, the National Rifle Association, a powerful advocate for access to guns, called for armed guards in every school in America.

In a phone message Davis left at the Bennington Banner newspaper on Wednesday morning, he read from a letter he wrote for one of his children in which he addressed surrendering the rifle. He denied any intent to harm others.

"A very bad man recently used a similar rifle to hurt lots of boys and girls. Right now some people think I am like that bad man. I am not anything like that bad man," Davis said.

In that letter, Davis also assured his son he is feeling well and will be released in the next few weeks.

In the same phone message, Davis explained he purchased the military-style rifle because it is similar to the M-16 he had used in the Army, making him familiar with how to take it apart and clean it.

The Newtown shooting initiated a Southwest Vermont Supervisory Union-wide review of emergency response plans for every building and a search for ways to improve facility security concerns, according to Doucette and school officials.

The high school and SVSU Central Office building had an additional law enforcement presence Wednesday as police checked in and drove by the buildings periodically. Doucette said the additional patrols will continue for the remainder of the week.

"[Mount Anthony Principal Sue Maguire] and I have been working closely with the police department on security issues to make sure that safety issues have been addressed" said SVSU Superintendent Catherine McClure.

A voluntary meeting of high school staff was held Wednesday morning during which Maguire made staff aware of the situation and how to address the situation if students bring it up. Maguire also visited each of Davis' classes to introduce them to their substitute and listen to any questions or concerns they had. The high school also made school clinicians available to anyone who wished to talk about the situation.

Doucette said police will continue to work with school officials as well as Davis and his family to ensure public safety.

"The police department's role in this going forward is to continue to ensure the safety of the community, to continue to ensure the safety of our schools and to hopefully work with Mr. Davis and his family to hopefully get things back on track and to help them through this. Mr. Davis is very well respected, is an excellent teacher," Doucette said.

[Ramplate]

Once again, the NRA is being stubborn and counter-productive when meeting with Joe Biden's committee for recommendations on the gun violence situation.

It's like talking to a brick wall - and as about as intelligent as bricks as well

[Ramplate]

Hello --

Today President Obama announced a plan to help protect our kids and communities from gun violence. You're going to hear a lot about it, but I wanted to make sure you got a chance to get the facts, straight from me.

After hearing from Americans from across the political spectrum, we decided to focus on some key priorities: closing background check loopholes, banning military-style assault weapons, making our schools safer, and increasing access to mental health services.

The ideas we sent to President Obama are straightforward. Each of them honors the rights of law-abiding, responsible Americans to bear arms. Some of them will require action from Congress; the President is acting on others immediately. But they're all commonsense and will help make us a little safer.

Now is the time for all of us to act.
Read about the events that brought us to this point, learn about the plan we've proposed to help protect our kids, and then add your name in support to help build momentum for this plan.
Here's what we've put together:

We're calling for requiring background checks for all gun sales and closing the loopholes that allow dangerous individuals to make their purchase without going through one of these checks.

We're asking for a new, stronger ban on military-style assault weapons and high-capacity magazines that allow a shooter to fire dozens of bullets as quickly as he can pull a trigger. And we're asking Congress to help protect law enforcement by make it illegal for members of the public to possess armor-piercing bullets.

We're going to give law enforcement more tools and resources to prevent and prosecute gun crimes, and we're going to end the freeze on gun violence research that prevents the Center from Disease Control from looking at the causes of gun violence.

We're calling on Congress to help make schools safer by putting up to 1,000 school resource officers and mental health professionals in schools and ensuring they have comprehensive emergency management plans in place.

And we're going to increase coverage so that students and young adults can get access to the mental health treatment they may need.

We know that no policy we enact or law we enforce can prevent every senseless act of violence in our country. But if we can save the life of even one child, we have a deep responsibility to act.

Now is the time to come together to protect our kids. Learn about the plan, then add your name alongside mine:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/now-is-the-time

Thanks,

Vice President Joe Biden

Just passing this along

[Ramplate]

Christie: NRA ad with Obama daughters ‘reprehensible’

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/c...-politics.html

Good for him - he's one of the better ones

[JBond]

God, that ad is such bull****.

[Ramplate]

As is their inability to openly discuss the value of any idea that isn't theirs

[Ramplate]

Watch this video:

Photo of JC Penney shopper with rifle strapped to back, strikes a nerve [video]
http://news.yahoo.com/video/photo-ma...230414356.html

[KUacuraChick]

Somehow I think a rifle strapped to your back doesn't really fall under "conceal and carry" unless he has "open and carry". Either way, wft

[Ramplate]

I just saw a news report where there were three accidents at gun shows.
In North Carolina a security guard and two other people were injured when a shotgun went off while someone was unzipping the case
In Indiana someone was loading a gun outside a gun show and shot himself in the hand.
In Ohio a man was seriously injured when a pistol discharged while someone was inspecting it - that someone was a gun dealer at the show, and the person accidently shot was his partner in the booth - apparently he removed the clip, but failed to clear the chamber until the trigger was test pulled.

And of course enthusiasts were trying to downplay these incidents saying they sould take a safety course like respectable gun owners do - but the last incident tells me it didn't matter - he was a gun dealer selling and buying guns in a gun show - if he's not careful enough to check for safety - who really is????

[Doomsday]

Time to ban gun shows.

[Doomsday]

Gorilla Sales Skyrocket After Latest Gorilla Attack

SAN DIEGO—Following the events of last week, in which a crazed western lowland gorilla ruthlessly murdered 21 people in a local shopping plaza after escaping from the San Diego Zoo, sources across the country confirmed Thursday that national gorilla sales have since skyrocketed.

“After seeing yet another deranged gorilla just burst into a public place and start killing people, I decided I need to make sure something like that never happens to me,” said 34-year-old Atlanta resident Nick Keller, shortly after purchasing a 350-pound mountain gorilla from his local gorilla store. “It just gives me peace of mind knowing that if I’m ever in that situation, I won’t have to just watch helplessly as my torso is ripped in half and my face is chewed off. I’ll be able to use my gorilla to defend myself.”

“Law enforcement and animal control can only get there so quickly,” Keller added. “And you never know when you’ll need to use a gorilla to save your life.”

Reports confirmed that gorilla sales have historically risen sharply in the immediate aftermath of a major gorilla attack, most notably after the 2010 tragedy in the small town of Logan, NM, where 14 people, including two 5-year-old children and a 92-year-old woman, were viciously beaten to death by a 12-year-old gorilla who spontaneously attacked patrons of a crowded grocery store.

The latest attack marked the fifth of its kind in the United States within the last six months and has reignited the explosive national debate over gorilla control, with thousands of outraged Americans reportedly demanding that their government representatives act immediately in order to prevent further bloodshed.

“We’ve had to deal with too many gorilla-related tragedies, and we’ve had to bury too many innocent, feces-covered victims,” said Nicole Simmons, president of the Mothers Against Gorillas coalition, who herself lost her 16-year-old son in the infamous Baker High School gorilla rampage of 1997. “It’s time to put an end to this. We need to get gorillas off the streets once and for all. Enough is enough.”

“The answer to this systemic problem is not more gorillas,” Simmons continued, her eyes welling with tears. “The answer is fewer gorillas.”

As evidence, Simmons pointed to a 2011 University of Maryland study, which found that 98 percent of Americans who own a gorilla have never used them for defense against a home invasion. Simmons also cited widely reported studies confirming that people who keep gorillas in the home are 12 times more likely to have their arms torn off, and children in those households are 19 times more likely to be picked up by the legs and bashed repeatedly into the ground.

Furthermore, many gorilla control advocates have reportedly called for statewide limits to the number of gorillas one can purchase and a federal ban on the ownership of silverbacks, referencing as an example the tight gorilla laws in countries such as Japan, England, and Australia, where the annual rate of gorilla crimes is virtually nonexistent.

“There is absolutely no reason—not for hunting, protection, or otherwise—that an ordinary citizen would need to possess a 600-pound silverback,” said Sen. Robert Menendez (D-NJ), one of the most outspoken gorilla control advocates in Congress. “The general public frankly has no business owning apes of this size, and the only people who do are zookeepers who are trained to properly handle them. Otherwise, they are nothing but a threat to society and only serve to perpetuate more violence.”

Opponents to gorilla control legislation, however, appear to be fervent in their defense of their gorilla possession rights. A spokesperson for the powerful yet controversial national gorilla lobby told reporters that a ban on gorillas would not end incidents such as that in San Diego, as those who want the large primates could simply buy them from illegal dealers who smuggle them into the country from the jungles of sub-Saharan Africa.

Many gorilla owners also told sources that the creatures are primarily used for legal hunting purposes and that the overwhelming majority of gorilla enthusiasts are completely responsible with their apes.

“Listen, it’s my God-given right as an American to have the freedom to own a gorilla to protect myself and my family,” said Nashua, NH resident James Harrington, 46, adding that he personally owns 12 different gorillas of various sizes, but keeps them “safely locked away in [his] home.” “And the government has another thing coming if they think they can come into my house and take away my gorillas.”

“What happened in San Diego was horrible, but that doesn’t mean all gorillas are bad,” Harrington added. “In fact, if every person at that mall had a gorilla, then the tragedy probably never would have even happened in the first place.”

At press time, following the increase in national gorilla sales, four isolated gorilla attacks had just been reported across the country, with the overall civilian death toll currently estimated at 37.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/gor...a-attac,30860/

[Ramplate]

:confused"

[Tolkien]

Way to put that Onion link at the bottom, I read the whole first paragraph before thinking, wait, is this fake? lol.

[Deexan]

Haha, after reading the opening paragraph my first thoughts were "how have I not heard about this?!" and "are there videos?"...

[Justin]

God damnit. This is unbelievable.

Murderous 'monster' acquires an arsenal

They knew the Delano house far too well. It was where Christian Philip Oberender, then 14 years old, had murdered his mother in a shotgun ambush in the family rec room in 1995.

Now, 18 years later, Carver County Sheriff Jim Olson was sending his deputies back to the home where Oberender still lives. Just two days earlier, Olson had scanned the day's shift reports and froze when he tripped over Oberender's name. A scan of a Facebook page then showed firearms spread out like a child's trophies on a bed inside the home, along with notes about the Newtown, Conn., gunman who shot 20 children to death.

What Olson's deputies found in the home was chilling: 13 guns, including semi-automatic rifles, an AK-47, a Tommy gun, assorted shotguns and handguns, including a .50-caliber Desert Eagle.

Even more disturbing was the letter Oberender had written recently to his late mother, Mary: "I am so homicide,'' it said in broken sentences. "I think about killing all the time. The monster want out. He only been out one time and someone die.''

Today, Oberender sits in a Carver County jail cell on a charge of being a felon in possession of firearms. And Olson, who investigated the 1995 murder as a young detective, finds his investigators at the center of a case that exposes the dangerous loopholes in the nation's gun laws and Minnesota's system of criminal background checks.

Even though Oberender killed his mother with a firearm, even though he was committed to the state hospital in St. Peter as mentally ill and dangerous more than a decade ago, he was able to obtain a permit to purchase firearms last May. That piece of paper gave Oberender, now 32, the ability to walk into any licensed Minnesota retailer and buy any assault weapon or pistol on the rack.

Dozens of other Minnesotans judged by a court to be mentally ill have also found that designation no barrier to obtaining deadly weapons.

A Star Tribune review of state court records found case after case in which individuals deemed mentally ill in judicial proceedings later wound up in possession of guns and accused of violent crimes.

At least 84 people have been charged since 2000 with illegal gun possession or assault with a dangerous weapon even though they had previously been committed by a judge as mentally ill. Of that group, 29 were charged with multiple counts of weapons possession and nine were considered by a judge to be mentally ill and dangerous.

Additionally, the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA) has more than 168,000 "suspense files'' -- records on Minnesotans who have been arrested since 1990 but whose files are so incomplete that the state can't determine if they should have the right to buy guns.

"The system failed in this case,'' Olson said in an interview. "We are having discussions with the BCA to make sure there aren't similar things like this hanging out there.''

Federal agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms are working with Olson's investigators to sort out which guns Oberender might have bought from retailers using a permit he should never have possessed.

Continued here: http://www.startribune.com/local/wes...efer=y&refer=y

[Ramplate]

I love my mother but she loves to forward a lot of things - especially when they tell her at the bottom of the e-mail to pass this around.
Unfortunately the majority of the e-mails that ask you to pass them around are in general propaganda (or they have a virus attached)

She sent me this thing with pictures and a little story to go with it - it was about a guy in ALASKA, getting some exercise out and about in a residential area and not the deep woods - that (by the pictures) looked like it was out on a dirt road in a heavily forested area, and no where near houses.
Well anyway this guy hears a noise and looks up to see a huge bear coming his way - so he takes out his pistol and brings it down in three shots.

This e-mail ends with a guy happy that he was able to protect himself with a gun and asks shouldn't we all have that right?


Well, first of all Alaska is still widely untouched wideness and you'd be silly not to take a gun out there with you.
Secondly, the bear was brought down with a pistol with 6 shots - not an AR-15 with a 30 or 100 round clip. And the guy says he wasn't even aiming.

It's the same deal over again, these people will circulate a story with flaws like that to get people up in a huff to say "they can't take our guns away"
Well, no one is taking your guns - we just want the unreasonable equipment out of people's hands - you can hunt, protect yourself, and target practice with a six shooter - you don't need 30 or 100 rounds for that - and if you do, you need a whole lot of target practice or hire someone else to protect you .

[Doomsday]

My whole issue with the ‘need’ argument though is that you can apply it to just about anything in order to suit your purpose. I get what people are saying, I just don’t like people judging what I should have based on need. Maybe I don’t need an AR-15, then again hardly anybody needs any guns, but if I want one I think I should have one. I’ve shot one many, many times and they’re incredibly fun to use. Just based off that alone I don’t see why someone should say ‘nope, a couple guys shot some people with one so no one can have any.’ That doesn’t make much sense.

But as for the ‘need’ argument, you can break that down to pretty much anything:

‘Why do you need an F-350 in Los Angeles? You don’t work in construction and it wastes a ton of gas. You could drive a hybrid and save tons in money and resources. Think of all the gas you could save and help the planet. You don’t need that!’

‘Why do you need a $5 million dollar house with a 6 car garage? You could just as easily get a $500,000 house and donate some money to charity. You should stop being selfish, you don’t need that!’

Or even…

‘Why do you need a shotgun? To hunt? It’s 2013, you don’t need to hunt. Go to the grocery store and buy some organic food. You don’t need to hunt and you certainly don’t need a shotgun.’

It’s the libertarian in me talking but when I hear people say ‘ehh you don’t need that, what do you need that for?’ I want to tell people that I don’t care what they think I need. Technically you don’t need anything. A tv, a leather sofa, a queen size bed, a dishwasher, second car, or just about anything else you can think of. ‘But Doomsday, that stuff doesn’t kill people.’ Well neither do 99.99999% of all guns, including assault weapons. And one of the reasons the assault weapon ban failed the first time is because anyone with a basic knowledge of firearms knows that it’s difficult to ‘define’ assault weapon. My brother has an M1 Carbine from World War II. It’s semi-automatic and can hold I think 7 rounds in its mag. Is that an assault weapon? If he buys and equips a bayonet, is it now an assault weapon? Because bayonets are assault weapon accessories. Are they strictly weapons with 30 round magazines? What if I got a 10 round magazine, is it still an assault weapon? It’s not cut and dry in the least and that’s where the ‘ban guns!’ people get really tripped up.