This Just In...the thread for news.

[JBond]

Just make sure you get it from the right guy. You don't want any of that watered down ****.

[Brock Landers]

Originally Posted by JBond

Just make sure you get it from the right guy. You don't want any of that watered down ****.

And don't forget the baking soda. This ingredient is crucial.

[Tolkien]

That's how it all starts; word of mouth. One guy hears it from another guy, it begins to spread and thus, a market grows!

Pibb on the rise, people!

[Deexan]

Should I put the Pibb and baking soda in my mouth at the same time? Or is that more for seasoned users?

[Ramplate]

Originally Posted by FranklinTard

Personal experience maybe, fact? Hardly.

First I would like to apologize, as that was demeaning and I should know better, but there is no evidence to suggest cannabis causes schizophrenia, none. You can link me all the scientific studies you want, but the fact is, if it did cause schizophrenia, you would see a drastic increase in cases of schizophrenia as cannabis use has increased, but you don't. It is even at 1% of the population (the historical norm), and may even be diminishing.

After @35 years I should be in a rubber room wearing a straight jacket - while strung out on heroin, coke, PCP, and whigging out from blotter acid flashbacks

But I'm not. (no, really I'm not)

I did hear the schizophrenic thing one time in a Television program on the effects of the major drugs of choice - but again, it probably aggravates a problem below the surface that one already has - and that can also be said for many substances that are abused at the wrong time by the wrong person. And not really common in cannabis at all. Plus there have been no real long term controlled studies on the effects of cannabis to draw conclusive evidence of such a thing.

Oh, Don't get started on Reese's dark chocolate peanut butter cups - those are addictive as hell - I drink way too much milk when I have those.

[docstop]

Originally Posted by Brock Landers

I understand your point, but couldn't you also say that because of a social circle anything could end up being a gateway? I think this has more to do with the individual than where a drug can lead you (however vague that sounds). For example: I have friends who are delirious about golf, and yet I don't feel any need to join in because, well, I hate that goddamn game. Your social circle could expose you to everything from weed and cocaine to golf and really terrible beer, so you could realistically find gateway arguments anywhere, right?

As for drug-induced psychosis/schizophrenia: was it the drug that caused it, or wouldn't it be fair to guess that the individual might have a history of mental illness in their family before they ever even knew what pot was? I wouldn't doubt that marijuana could exacerbate the condition, but I wouldn't call it the cause. More of a flashlight than a cause, you see what I mean? I'm just curious, since you mentioned you worked with young adults/teens.

Those are some fair assumptions. It is incredibly difficult to pry apart all of the complexities that make up a human being and their history. I see where you're coming from with your critique of my gateway argument. For me, the gateway argument makes sense and sociological sense, in that people are impressionable and social creatures. Badura's social learning theory could also be thrown into the equation here. For all we know the kids could be picking up habits from the parents. In my limited experience the youth don't have mental illness in the family but that's not necessarily something people brag about.

I guess I come at this from the perspective that drug use does have a massive social aspect and instead of people just letting that happen we need to find ways to break the issue down into smaller parts so that it can be dealt with more easily. The gateway argument can be made for anything, but that's just it, if it can be made for anything then when putting it into the context of a real-world problem, kids developing drug problems, its a theory that is helpful.

And no worrie about the year comment, Brock.

Originally Posted by FranklinTard

Personal experience maybe, fact? Hardly.

First I would like to apologize, as that was demeaning and I should know better, but there is no evidence to suggest cannabis causes schizophrenia, none. You can link me all the scientific studies you want, but the fact is, if it did cause schizophrenia, you would see a drastic increase in cases of schizophrenia as cannabis use has increased, but you don't. It is even at 1% of the population (the historical norm), and may even be diminishing.

Your right in that there is no scientific evidence that unequivocally states that marijuana directly causes schizophrenia. That's true and unarguable. However, that is the nature of science, that nothing is 100% for sure. So if people utilize the concept of "risk" it makes more sense.

Here's one research article reference: Lai & Sitharthan. (2012) Exploration of the Comorbidity of Cannabis Use Disorders and Mental
Health Disorders among Inpatients Presenting to All Hospitals in New
South Wales, Australia. [i]The American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse[i], 38, 567-574.

Originally Posted by Justin

As for working with teens with psychosis, their disorder could be attributed to anything. Using an anecdote is not evidence--that's not scientific fact. I'd like to know where you read that MJ has been known to cause psychosis, because I've never once heard that. Right now, it sounds like you've met some teenagers with problems prior to smoking weed. Other drugs like LSD and ecstasy (again, in excess) have been known to cause problems like that, but never weed.

There is more than just anecdotal evidence to go on. I personally use the diathesis-stress model to explain mental illness.

Moore, et al., (2007). Cannabis use and risk of psychotic or affective mental health outcomes: a systematic review.The Lancet, 370, 319-328.

Rossler, Hengartner, Angst, Ajdacic-Gross. (2012) Linking substance use with symptoms of subclinical psychosis in a community cohort over 30 years. Addiction, 107, 1174-1184.

Originally Posted by Ramplate

After @35 years I should be in a rubber room wearing a straight jacket - while strung out on heroin, coke, PCP, and whigging out from blotter acid flashbacks

But I'm not. (no, really I'm not)

I did hear the schizophrenic thing one time in a Television program on the effects of the major drugs of choice - but again, it probably aggravates a problem below the surface that one already has - and that can also be said for many substances that are abused at the wrong time by the wrong person. And not really common in cannabis at all. Plus there have been no real long term controlled studies on the effects of cannabis to draw conclusive evidence of such a thing.

That does make sense, Ram... and we're glad you're around here on the boards and not in the rubber rooom.

Here's an interesting, 10 year, study:

Kuepper, et al., (2011). Continued cannabis use and risk of incidence and persistence of psychotic symptoms: 10 year follow-up cohort study. British Medical Journal, 342

Hope you guys can access the articles. Makes me mad in that there is a lot of research on the topic yet they store it away so that only doctors and health professionals can access it. Anyone can do a Google Scholar search too with certain keywords, however, the articles you have access to are often outdated. If people can research it I would suggest ProQuest databases: PsycInfo, Social Services Abstracts, PsycCritiques, and Sociological Abstracts.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by docstop

Moore, et al., (2007). Cannabis use and risk of psychotic or affective mental health outcomes: a systematic review.The Lancet, 370, 319-328.

Rossler, Hengartner, Angst, Ajdacic-Gross. (2012) Linking substance use with symptoms of subclinical psychosis in a community cohort over 30 years. Addiction, 107, 1174-1184.

FINDINGS:
In bivariate analyses, schizotypal signs were predominantly associated with regular cannabis use in adolescence (OR = 2.29, 95% CI 1.32-3.97). Schizophrenia nuclear symptoms were mainly related to alcohol (OR = 1.84, 95% CI 1.00-3.38) and multiple-drug use (OR = 2.35, 95% CI 1.38-4.02) during adolescence. Multivariate analyses showed that, in particular, regular cannabis use during adolescence was associated with the occurrence of subsequent schizotypal symptoms over a 30-year period (OR = 2.60, 95% CI; 1.59-4.23), whereas multiple-drug use in adolescence was associated predominantly with schizophrenia nuclear symptoms (OR = 1.75, 95% CI 1.01-3.03). Alcohol misuse was only slightly associated with the onset of such symptoms.

CONCLUSIONS:
A significant portion of the occurrence of subclinical psychosis symptoms in adulthood can be attributed to excessive cannabis and multiple-drug use during adolescence. This is in line with the hypothesis that long-term sensitization of dopaminergic brain receptors plays a role in developing psychotic symptoms.

Those findings indicate that it takes a lot--and usually accompanied by other drugs--of marijuana to really cause any type of psychiatric problem, like psychosis. That's over a period of 30 years of regular cannabis abuse. It also shows that when accompanied by other drugs, it's even more likely--notice the drastic increase in frequency. That doesn't contradict anyone's statement. You can make the same argument for any substance entering the body, even food.

I was also a little curious to see what he means by "regular" use. Does he mean once a day, twice, three times? It's not exactly clear...

[FranklinTard]

there is still very little evidence... sure it might exacerbate the conditions already present in people, but there is no evidence that it is the cause. and like i said, if it caused all these myriad of mental disorders, you would see a TON of mental disorders with the increase in cannabis consumption over the past couple years. either they are over stated in the literature, or they are studying an already at risk group of people.

self medication happens a lot.

[MasterChief117]

I have a personal vendetta against pot and drugs in general, and that's the way it will always be. Should it be legalized? Perhaps but I will never support it.

[FranklinTard]

real logical there chief.

[Justin]

I don't understand the disdain for marijuana or drugs in general. No one wants to approach the topic of treating addiction as a disease as opposed to a crime. Look at Portugal, for anyone seeking to criminalize drugs (all forms, marijuana included). Even in the United States, crime has dropped. This infuriating misinformation has been circulating around for quite some time-- and impressionable people believe it. Face the facts: the "drug war" has not worked, nor will it EVER work. Prohibition did not work. What makes you think this endless, hugely expensive war will turn out well?

[JBond]

Well put.

[docstop]

Originally Posted by Justin

Those findings indicate that it takes a lot--and usually accompanied by other drugs--of marijuana to really cause any type of psychiatric problem, like psychosis. That's over a period of 30 years of regular cannabis abuse. It also shows that when accompanied by other drugs, it's even more likely--notice the drastic increase in frequency. That doesn't contradict anyone's statement. You can make the same argument for any substance entering the body, even food.

I was also a little curious to see what he means by "regular" use. Does he mean once a day, twice, three times? It's not exactly clear...

After reviewing the whole article, regular use is defined as either once a day or once a week. The point of it is that dopaminergic receptors in the brain are being affected leading to a heightened potential for psychosis, I don't know how ordinary food would have that sort of powerful effect on the brain, Justin.

[Justin]

That wasn't my point.

[docstop]

Sorry, what did you mean?

[Justin]

All substances have their addictive qualities, whether or not they all cause psychosis is something else entirely. If a person uses a substance obsessively for 30 years (once a day, or a couple times a week), then you should expect it to have some impact on your body later. This isn't restricted to marijuana. Look at prescription medication, anyone who thinks it's harmless is fooling themselves (look at the side effects of anti-depressants). I also think it's important to remember that medical marijuana is still in practice for a variety of reasons. It's often used to help people with glaucoma, cancer, migraines, and so on and so forth.

[Tolkien]

Like Jibbs said; well put.

[Ramplate]

Like Whoopi Goldberg said once said, a person with a drug problem doesn't need legal problems on top of it.
Rehab is hard, but it is the key to the kingdom

[Tolkien]

Rest in Peace, Senator Inouye. Thank you for your service!

Hawaii's nine-term senator, Daniel Inouye, dies at 88

By Ken Dilanian
December 17, 2012, 3:24 p.m.

WASHINGTON – Sen. Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, the second-longest-serving senator in U.S. history and winner of the Medal of Honor for combat heroics in World War II, has died, his office announced in a statement. He was 88.

"His last words were, 'Aloha,'" his office said.

Inouye died at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, with his wife, Irene, and his son, Ken, at his side. Last rites were performed by Senate Chaplain Dr. Barry Black, his office said.

A senator since 1963, Inouye in 2009 became chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, where he continued a long record of helping fund projects in his home state. From 1998 to 2003, he steered $1.4 billion to military projects in Hawaii, according to The Almanac of American Politics.

The son of Japanese immigrants, Inouye grew up in Honolulu, where he was teaching a first aid course at age 17 when Pearl Harbor was attacked. He enlisted in the Army in 1943, when it dropped its ban on Japanese Americans.

Promoted to sergeant, he fought in Italy and France. On April 21, 1945, while leading an assault in Italy against the Germans, Inouye was shot in the stomach. He nonetheless attacked and destroyed two machine gun nests before being even more severely wounded, losing his right arm.

“By his gallant, aggressive tactics and by his indomitable leadership, Second Lieutenant Inouye enabled his platoon to advance through formidable resistance, and was instrumental in the capture of the ridge,” says his citation for the Medal of Honor, the military’s highest award. “Second Lieutenant Inouye's extraordinary heroism and devotion to duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflect great credit on him, his unit, and the United States Army.”

When asked in recent days how he wanted to be remembered, Inouye said, according to his office, "I represented the people of Hawaii and this nation honestly and to the best of my ability. I think I did OK."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,1960305.story

[Ramplate]

Wow, what a life. Rest well

[Deexan]

Father Christmas might have trouble fulfilling his pledges in the Seattle area this year, as thieves made off with over $2 million worth of Wii U consoles.

The impressively well planned heist involved the crooks entering a warehouse at Seattle’s SeaTac airport in two semi-trucks, and then filling them with 7,000 brand new Wii U consoles (a mix of Basic and Premium Packs apparently).

‘I’ve been a cop for 28 years, and I’ve never seen anything like this,’ said Sgt. Cindy West to ABC News, which is understandable because the Wii U only came out a month ago. ‘This has come straight out of the movies.’

ABC initially reported they were old school Wii consoles but website Kotaku confirmed with the local Sheriff’s Office that they were in fact Wii Us.

The villains made off with an airport truck as well, and police are hoping this might be their first lead. Their best chance of catching them though is when they try to sell them.

We’re not sure what Seattle has in the way of market traders but the police offered the following advice: ‘We still want people to call if they see anybody advertising for any great deals for Wii U’s on eBay or privately, especially if there’s a large quantity of them.’
So if any American readers buy a Wii U off the back of a lorry, and that lorry has Seattle Air Cargo or ‘McKinney’ written on it, then you should know you’re probably not going to get a reliable warranty.

http://metro.co.uk/2012/12/19/thieve...heist-3322776/

[MasterChief117]

Originally Posted by FranklinTard

real logical there chief.

I don't care if it is logic or not. I have had people I loved more than anything pick that **** over me. So, allow me to be a bit butt sore over it.

[Justin]

Syria Unleashes Cluster Bombs on Town, Punishing Civilians

By C. J. CHIVERS
Published: December 20, 201

MAREA, Syria — The plane came in from the southeast late in the afternoon, releasing its weapons in a single pass. Within seconds, scores of finned bomblets struck and exploded on the homes and narrow streets of this small Syrian town.

Many forms of violence and hardship have befallen Syria’s people as the country’s civil war has escalated this year. But the Syrian government’s attack here on Dec. 12 pointed to one of the war’s irrefutable patterns: the deliberate targeting of civilians by President Bashar al-Assad’s military, in this case with a weapon that is impossible to use precisely.

Syrians on both sides in this fight have suffered from the bloodshed and sectarian furies given dark license by the war. The victims of the cluster bomb attacks describe the tactic as collective punishment, a mass reprisal against populations that are with the rebels.

The munitions in question — Soviet-era PTAB-2.5Ms — were designed decades ago by Communist engineers to destroy battlefield formations of Western armored vehicles and tanks. They are ejected in dense bunches from free-falling dispensers dropped from aircraft. The bomblets then scatter and descend nose-down to land and explode almost at once over a wide area, often hundreds of yards across.

Marea stands along an agricultural plain, surrounded for miles by empty fields. Even at night, or in bad weather, it cannot be mistaken for anything but what it is — the densely packed collection of small businesses, offices and homes that together form a town.

Two journalists from The New York Times were traveling toward Marea as the attack occurred and arrived not long after the exploding bomblets had rippled across its neighborhoods.

Blood pooled on the street, including beside a water-collection point at an intersection where Nabhan al-Haji, 18, was killed.

Another victim, Ahmad Najjar Asmail, had been riding a motorcycle when a submunition landed beside him. He was decapitated. Ramy Naser, 15, was also fatally wounded.

The hospital was crowded with patients. Many more were en route to hospitals in Turkey.

The use of cluster munitions is banned by much of the world, although Syria, like the United States, is not party to that international convention. In the detached parlance of military planners, they are also sometimes referred to as area weapons — ordnance with effects that cover a sprawling amount of ground.

In the attack on Marea, at least three dispensers, each containing 42 bomblets slightly smaller than a one-liter bottle and packed with a high-explosive shaped charge, were dropped squarely onto neighborhoods and homes.

Two funerals began as the sun set, the latest in a town that rose early against Syria’s government, and has been one of the seats of defiance.

One homeowner, Ali Farouh, showed the place where a PTAB-2.5M struck an exterior wall on his patio. His young son held up bits of shrapnel.

“Bashar is a horse,” Mr. Farouh said, almost spitting with disgust as he said the president’s name. “He is a donkey.”

An examination of the area by daylight found the signature signs of an air-delivered cluster munitions attack, including unexploded PTAB-2.5M submunitions, the tail sections and fins of three dispensers and three main dispenser bodies.

One resident also displayed the nearly intact remains of an ATK-EB mechanical time fuse associated with the same dispensers. Fragments of the submunitions’ fins were in abundance. An interior spacer and dispenser nose plate were also found.

Throughout the town, many of the narrow, telltale craters made by shaped charges could be seen. Some cut deep holes through asphalt into the dirt below, almost like a drill.

It was not immediately clear why Marea was attacked, although many residents ascribed motives that mix collective punishment with revenge.

The town is the home of Abdulkader al-Saleh, a prominent rebel field commander in the Aleppo region. Mr. Saleh, charismatic and lean, is locally known with near reverence as Haji Marea, and is celebrated by his townspeople for his mix of battlefield savvy, courage and luck. This month, just days before the cluster attack on his hometown, he was named a leader in the reorganized Free Syrian Army, as many rebels call themselves.

Residents said Marea’s recent history, and its indelible connection to the commander it produced, has earned it a high place on Mr. Assad’s list of targets.

“The regime especially hates us,” said Yasser al-Haji, an activist who lost a cousin in the attack.

No one disputes that Marea has repeatedly been attacked by some of the Assad government’s most frightening weapons. On Thursday, residents reported being hit by ballistic missiles, perhaps Scuds, which they said landed just north of the town with tremendous, earth-heaving explosions.

In the case of the cluster munitions attack, one of the submunitions did strike a building being used by the rebels — a school where some of Haji Marea’s fighters are based. It blasted a small hole in the concrete roof and sprayed bits of concrete and shrapnel into the room below, which was empty.

Several fighters, who were meeting in the next room as the jet screamed overhead — and the sole bomblet, out of more than 100, hit their building — chuckled at their near miss. But they were enraged by the attack.

They spoke of the government’s escalation of weapons throughout the year — from mortars, tanks and artillery to helicopter gunships, then to fixed-wing attack jets. Since summer, Mr. Assad’s military has used cluster munitions repeatedly, and recently began using incendiary cluster munitions, too. This month, Syrian activists and officials in Washington said the government had ratcheted up the pressure with one of the last unused weapons left in its stock — cruise missiles, with conventional warheads. Analysts who have watched the gradual escalations said the Assad government has followed a “boil-the-frog-slowly” strategy.

With the incremental escalations, they say, Mr. Assad has prevented the West from finding cause to enter the war, as NATO did against Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi of Libya after he rolled out almost all of his military’s full might at the war’s outset.

One fighter, who gave his name as Mustafa, said that Mr. Assad had little left that he had not used. The fighter said he expected no restraint.

“In the coming days, he’ll use the chemicals and he’ll destroy everything,” he said. “And will burn the people, and kill all the people — children, women, old men, the elders.”

Mr. Assad, Mustafa said, “just needs to kill.”

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: December 21, 2012

An earlier version of this article referred incorrectly to Scuds. They are ballistic missiles, not cruise missiles.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/wo...e.html?hp&_r=0

[FranklinTard]

Originally Posted by MasterChief117

I don't care if it is logic or not. I have had people I loved more than anything pick that **** over me. So, allow me to be a bit butt sore over it.

no, those were the people choosing it over you, not the actual plant hurting you in any way shape or form.

unless it did actually anally rape you... butt sore still and all...

but those were peoples choices that hurt you. to take it out on an inanimate object is silly and illogical.

[Doomsday]

Didn't we have a conversation like this last week about guns?