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Old 12-11-2012, 12:03 PM   #2001
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Moviebuff's 3 movie list is pretty close to yours?
You will be one of the major reasons why I pick up the bottle, Jbond.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:27 PM   #2002
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The Dark Knight has less plot holes...?

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You will be one of the major reasons why I pick up the bottle, Jbond.
Gooood, release your anger!
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:40 PM   #2003
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Isn't the entirety of TDK hinged on the fact that each and every aspect of the Joker's plan is a success? Cracked included it in one of their articles.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:42 PM   #2004
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And I still haven't heard a reason why Gordon faked his death.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:45 PM   #2005
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To protect his family. Not just from the Joker but from the mob as well.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:46 PM   #2006
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It was really dramatized, yet not one person in the audience believed he died.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:51 PM   #2007
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How did it protect his family? He didn't even plan his fake death, he happened to take a bullet.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:59 PM   #2008
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But Gordon was never one of the Joker's targets, and the mob hitting Gordon was never part of the plan. He wasn't Commissioner yet, after all.

I never read that Cracked article but that's one thing I said since 2008. If anything went wrong, if any one thing didn't turn out perfectly, the Joker's whole plan would have fallen apart. If the Joker hadn't been given a phone call, if the prison truck exited on any other street (unless the Joker had men with cable wires to take down helicopters on every street), if the Joker hadn't been able to pick up a piece of glass to take the cop hostage, had the Chinese guy been at any other part of the police station, and so on. All had to be dead on.

Okay okay, that's all, I promise I won't respond anymore.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:15 PM   #2009
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But Gordon was never one of the Joker's targets, and the mob hitting Gordon was never part of the plan. He wasn't Commissioner yet, after all.
But Gordon likely would have been singled out eventually. Rather than wait for Joker to choose him, he took action first.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:17 PM   #2010
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Well, I guess eventually.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:20 PM   #2011
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Seriously. People who stand up to The Joker are being targeted left and right. Do you wait for him to come after you?
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:53 PM   #2012
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If anything went wrong, if any one thing didn't turn out perfectly, the Joker's whole plan would have fallen apart.
That's supposed to seem fantastical. The ability to make elaborate plans like that is sort of The Joker's superpower, it's what makes him the perfect nemesis for Batman, who also operates through incredible planning and tactical skill.

It's also a pretty typical film trope, I mean you could dismiss every heist or prison escape film ever made by that logic.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:07 PM   #2013
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The Dark Knight has less plot holes...?



Gooood, release your anger!
It does.



And I hate alcohol (waits for everybody to throw shoes at me)...but you're negativity is pushing me there...Ugh. I hate you.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:10 PM   #2014
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Remember when we were discussing Spike Lee in this forum the other day? Well, I recently watched Malcolm X and loved it, though not quite as much as I did 25th Hour and Do The Right Thing.

Anyway, based on what I've seen, Spike Lee is an extraordinarily talented filmmaker. I'd probably rank what I've seen like this:

1.Do The Right Thing
2.25th Hour
3.Malcolm X

All three are great though.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:13 PM   #2015
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And I hate alcohol
Does not compute.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:32 PM   #2016
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i don't think he is anywhere near 21 yet... not saying it is hard to get booze when you are younger, but it gets... different.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:47 PM   #2017
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it is hard to get booze when you are younger
To give MasterChief credit, it is even more difficult to get Pepsi Free.









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Old 12-13-2012, 06:05 PM   #2018
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21 is such a ridiculous drinking age.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:11 PM   #2019
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21 is such a ridiculous drinking age.
Canadians rule.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:25 PM   #2020
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It's also a pretty typical film trope, I mean you could dismiss every heist or prison escape film ever made by that logic.
The difference between the two is that in those movies like Oceanís 11, the thieves/prisoners are the protagonists. They need to calculate and execute perfectly so they can accomplish what the movie is trying to set out to do. When it comes to the plans of villains, they need to set out accomplishing their tasks despite the efforts of the good guys. In Die Hard for example, John McClane sets off fire alarms, kill bad guys, contact police, kill more bad guys, steal detonators, kidnap Hans, and the bad guys still try to devise ways to steal the money and kill off the Nakatomi employees. That really didnít happen in the Dark Knight, there was just one extremely over elaborate thread of a plan and one hiccup would have made it all fall to pieces. Other movie villains have their hiccups hence the purpose of having a hero, but they keep going until it comes to a head.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:19 PM   #2021
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When it comes to the plans of villains, they need to set out accomplishing their tasks despite the efforts of the good guys.
... and heroes set out accomplishing their tasks despite the efforts of the bad guys. What's the difference?

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That really didn’t happen in the Dark Knight, there was just one extremely over elaborate thread of a plan and one hiccup would have made it all fall to pieces. Other movie villains have their hiccups hence the purpose of having a hero, but they keep going until it comes to a head.
There were hiccups, you know The Joker didn't win in the end, right?

Besides, how do you know that what transpired in the film was his original plan? Maybe what we were seeing was a plan that adjusted for hiccups and was in fact Plan B or Plan C?
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:49 PM   #2022
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To give MasterChief credit, it is even more difficult to get Pepsi Free.
Why did you quote me so it looks like I was saying the opposite of what I meant?
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:00 PM   #2023
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in the Dark Knight, there was just one extremely over elaborate thread of a plan and one hiccup would have made it all fall to pieces.
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There were hiccups, you know The Joker didn't win in the end, right?
lol. I hate to bust your bubble, Doomsday, but Dracula is correct. The big "hiccup" was the people on the boats not blowing each other up. Joker's goal was to show the ugly side of humanity and he didn't accomplish that. He even failed with Harvey Dent since Batman and Gordon covered up the whole Two-Face incident.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:59 PM   #2024
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Well of course something had to not go his way, otherwise...he would have won. It just happened to be at the very, very end.

I think you're missing the point, the point is that not only did the Joker devise this plan that left no room for error, but his plan contained elements that he could in no way predict at all. What if there was no guard in the interrogation room? And what if there was no shattered glass thanks to Batman throwing him into the window? And what if the cops had found the phone-in-chest bomb just 5 minutes before? He could a) not have attacked the guard, b) not have held the guard hostage, c) demanded a cell phone to make a phone call, d) detonated a bomb inside the police station knocking out/killing everybody else on the floor except the Joker. It's just so absolutely far fetched. If any one of those things hadn't happened then 'poof' the Joker is done. Around 40% of his plan was by his own devices, 60% just pure chance.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:46 AM   #2025
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If the glass hadn't broken I'm sure he would have used the information regarding Dent and Rachel's locations to get his phone call.

He's a criminal mastermind. Like an evil Sherlock.
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