Batology: A Seven Part Batman Retrospective

[MovieBuff801]

Certainly a higher rating than I was expecting.

[Neverending]

I know. I just created tidal waves.

[Doomsday]

Pretty much verbatim what I would have said. I enjoyed it a lot when I first saw it, but subsequent viewings just weren't kind to it for all the reasons you stated, at least for me.

That's where I give Dark Knight major props, it solved a good number of the things that bothered me about Batman Begins.

[Neverending]

FIVE THINGS BATMAN BEGINS DOES BETTER THAN THE DARK KNIGHT:

1. It's more epic. The various locations added a lot of scope to the picture.
2. Christian Bale is a lot better here. Then again, that could be because his Batman voice is not annoying.
3. Katie Holmes isn't that bad. I don't know why I was so harsh on Katie back then. Maybe all the Tom Cruise-Katie Holmes Mania bothered me or something. But, as I said, she's pretty good. And she has chemistry with Bale. The only real flaw is that she looks too young. She barely looks out of college. No one is gonna believe that she's an Assistant District Attorney.
4. Gotham looks like... Gotham. Here, they kept the Chicago shooting to a minimal. They relied mostly on sets in England.
5. The score is WAY better. James Newton Howard was on the forefront of this soundtrack and he created some beautiful music. Hans Zimmer was given too much control in The Dark Knight. So, that film has the generic nonsense that has plagued summer blockbusters for the past decade.

[Doomsday]

1) If there's one thing I really liked about Batman Begins, it was the Narrows. It really gave Gotham a 'dark side.' I hope it's revisited in DKR. I didn't get the impression that Dark Knight was going for that 'epic' feel though so not sure if I can agree on that front.
2) Agreed. Bale was better in this one but I think that fault lies with Chris Nolan and the supposed DK post-shooting voice alterations.
3) Like you said, I just don't buy her as a DA. She's a hell of a lot nicer on the eyes than Maggie G though.
4) See #1
5) I was never a fan of the score to begin with in either of them. I didn't dislike them, I just found them forgettable but I've said that about every other recent comic book movie. Spider-Man's score just seemed lazy, I thought Danny Elfman dropped the ball on that one. Likewise with...well any other superhero movie that had an original score. What makes that frustrating though is that John Williams' Superman score and Danny Elfman's Batman score were two of the best scores from any movie in recent memory. I've heard the 'ohh the tone of movies is different now' or whatever, but a great score can really have a tremendous effect on a film. Lawrence of Arabia, Gone With the Wind, The Godfather all have incredible scores. I can't think of a whole lot of recent films, superhero or otherwise, that have really standout scores. I hear How To Train Your Dragon is a pretty good one though.

[Neverending]

I agree that John Williams' Superman and Danny Elfman's Batman are still the two big heavyweights. But there are a few others that come close:


JERRY GOLDSMITH - THE SHADOW (1994)

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

JOHN OTTMAN - X2: X-MEN UNITED (2003)

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

DANNY ELFMAN - HULK (2003)

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

MARCO BELTRAMI - HELLBOY (2004)

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

MICHAEL GIACCHINO - THE INCREDIBLES (2004)

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

[Doomsday]

I'm gonna save those to listen to at work tomorrow.

[Doomsday]

For Neverending, just to stir the pot.

FIVE THINGS THE DARK KNIGHT DOES BETTER THAN BATMAN BEGINS:

1. The obvious; a strong villain. No, not strong villain. A great villain. One of the most memorable villains we’ve had on screen since Hannibal Lecter.
2. Better action sequences. Batman Begins had action, but it was clumsy and hard to follow. It was tame at best and unbelievable at worst, like Bruce lifting an unconscious Henri Ducard over a cliff with one arm, or flying between rails of a speeding subway train. Dark Knight, while still having some goofy action, gave us probably the best action scene in the entire franchise with the underground streets of Gotham and some dump trucks. The Batpod is pretty sweet too.
3. The supporting cast is much stronger and more believable. Aaron Eckhart gives a great performance as Harvey Dent, Gary Oldman is given even more screentime, and even Eric Roberts delivers as a mobster who makes one too many mistakes. Michael Jai White's Gamble is also in a couple of the most memorable scenes in the film too.
4. We get Commissioner Gordon, not Batman’s faux sidekick driving around in the Batmobile blowing up bridges.
5. Thinks outside the box. I can’t remember many other superhero movies that kill off the female lead/romantic interest at the end of the second act. It was a ballsy move that paid off and seems to set up events in the upcoming movie. It was certainly a gamble but in the end it was a really good move and was one of the things that helped Dark Knight rise above the generic Iron Mans, Spider-Mans, Thors, and Captain Americas. The superhero also doesn’t get his customary pat on the back at the end of it all. No, instead he takes the fall for murdering a bunch of cops and is on the run. Talk about a great setup for a third installment.

[Neverending]

No arguments from me.

[Nick1988]

Originally Posted by Neverending

I agree that John Williams' Superman and Danny Elfman's Batman are still the two big heavyweights. But there are a few others that come close:


JERRY GOLDSMITH - THE SHADOW (1994)

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

JOHN OTTMAN - X2: X-MEN UNITED (2003)

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

DANNY ELFMAN - HULK (2003)

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

MARCO BELTRAMI - HELLBOY (2004)

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

MICHAEL GIACCHINO - THE INCREDIBLES (2004)

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

I really liked the score from X1 actually, something about it really sticks with me.
Also, The Dark Knights score was a bit weaker, but i really really liked it when ever Joker was on screen, his theme music was perfect for the character and overall really good in general.

[Deexan]

I'm with Nick on X1, case in point:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

[PG Cooper]

Originally Posted by Neverending

FIVE THINGS BATMAN BEGINS DOES BETTER THAN THE DARK KNIGHT:

1. It's more epic. The various locations added a lot of scope to the picture.
2. Christian Bale is a lot better here. Then again, that could be because his Batman voice is not annoying.
3. Katie Holmes isn't that bad. I don't know why I was so harsh on Katie back then. Maybe all the Tom Cruise-Katie Holmes Mania bothered me or something. But, as I said, she's pretty good. And she has chemistry with Bale. The only real flaw is that she looks too young. She barely looks out of college. No one is gonna believe that she's an Assistant District Attorney.
4. Gotham looks like... Gotham. Here, they kept the Chicago shooting to a minimal. They relied mostly on sets in England.
5. The score is WAY better. James Newton Howard was on the forefront of this soundtrack and he created some beautiful music. Hans Zimmer was given too much control in The Dark Knight. So, that film has the generic nonsense that has plagued summer blockbusters for the past decade.

1. I'm gonna have to disagree. I find The Dark Knight a very epic film in the same vein Heat feels epic. The story of The Joker and Batman fighting over a city feels like a very large scale story.
2. I'd say he does an equal job in both films, especially since I really like where he takes Bruce in The Dark Knight.
3. Holmes isn't that bad, but she isn't that good.
4. I sort of agree, though I don't mind the depiction of Gotham in The Dark Knight.
5. I like The Dark Knight score better.

Originally Posted by Doomsday

1) If there's one thing I really liked about Batman Begins, it was the Narrows. It really gave Gotham a 'dark side.' I hope it's revisited in DKR. I didn't get the impression that Dark Knight was going for that 'epic' feel though so not sure if I can agree on that front.
2) Agreed. Bale was better in this one but I think that fault lies with Chris Nolan and the supposed DK post-shooting voice alterations.
3) Like you said, I just don't buy her as a DA. She's a hell of a lot nicer on the eyes than Maggie G though.
4) See #1
5) I was never a fan of the score to begin with in either of them. I didn't dislike them, I just found them forgettable but I've said that about every other recent comic book movie. Spider-Man's score just seemed lazy, I thought Danny Elfman dropped the ball on that one. Likewise with...well any other superhero movie that had an original score. What makes that frustrating though is that John Williams' Superman score and Danny Elfman's Batman score were two of the best scores from any movie in recent memory. I've heard the 'ohh the tone of movies is different now' or whatever, but a great score can really have a tremendous effect on a film. Lawrence of Arabia, Gone With the Wind, The Godfather all have incredible scores. I can't think of a whole lot of recent films, superhero or otherwise, that have really standout scores. I hear How To Train Your Dragon is a pretty good one though.

1. Narrows are awesome.
2. l already explained my opinion on this.
3. Who cares about eye candy; Gylenhaal was more believable.
5. I'm gonna have to agree with those people who say the tone is different. Look, I love the Danny Elfman music from Batman and Batman Returns; it's awesome, and better than the scores for either Batman Begins or The Dark Knight. But at the same time, that style of music would not fit in with what Nolan is trying to do at all. Besides, I really like the scores for Batman Begins and especially for The Dark Knight. It isn't as good as the Elfman score, but it's still very good and fits the tone of the film perfectly.

Originally Posted by Doomsday

For Neverending, just to stir the pot.

FIVE THINGS THE DARK KNIGHT DOES BETTER THAN BATMAN BEGINS:

1. The obvious; a strong villain. No, not strong villain. A great villain. One of the most memorable villains we’ve had on screen since Hannibal Lecter.
2. Better action sequences. Batman Begins had action, but it was clumsy and hard to follow. It was tame at best and unbelievable at worst, like Bruce lifting an unconscious Henri Ducard over a cliff with one arm, or flying between rails of a speeding subway train. Dark Knight, while still having some goofy action, gave us probably the best action scene in the entire franchise with the underground streets of Gotham and some dump trucks. The Batpod is pretty sweet too.
3. The supporting cast is much stronger and more believable. Aaron Eckhart gives a great performance as Harvey Dent, Gary Oldman is given even more screentime, and even Eric Roberts delivers as a mobster who makes one too many mistakes. Michael Jai White's Gamble is also in a couple of the most memorable scenes in the film too.
4. We get Commissioner Gordon, not Batman’s faux sidekick driving around in the Batmobile blowing up bridges.
5. Thinks outside the box. I can’t remember many other superhero movies that kill off the female lead/romantic interest at the end of the second act. It was a ballsy move that paid off and seems to set up events in the upcoming movie. It was certainly a gamble but in the end it was a really good move and was one of the things that helped Dark Knight rise above the generic Iron Mans, Spider-Mans, Thors, and Captain Americas. The superhero also doesn’t get his customary pat on the back at the end of it all. No, instead he takes the fall for murdering a bunch of cops and is on the run. Talk about a great setup for a third installment.

I pretty much agree with all of this, though I get the impression I liked Gordon in Begins more than you did.

[PG Cooper]

*Disclaimer: Review contains SPOILERS!!!


Release date: July 18th, 2008

Running time: 2 hours and 32 minutes

Written by: Jonathan Nolan, Christopher Nolan, and David S. Goyer

Based on: The character Batman, created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger

Directed by: Christopher Nolan

Starring: Christian Bale, Heath Ledger, and Aaron Eckhart

After an exciting and epic adventure, Batman Begins would conclude with a rooftop meeting where Gordon hands Batman a joker card and fans around the world knew what was coming. Given that Batman Begins was a film loved by everyone from hardcore geeks, to critics, to the casual moviegoer, a sequel was indeed inevitable. That sequel would finally come in 2008, titled The Dark Knight. The hype and anticipation for the film was insanely high, to the point that it felt like no film could meet such expectations. But when The Dark Knight finally came out, nearly everyone unanimously fell in love with the film. The film grossed over 1 billion dollars world wide while still getting rave reviews to the point where several people, fans and critics alike, argued the film deserved an Oscar nomination for Best Picture. I loved The Dark Knight back in 2008, and it still holds up today.

Batman (Christian Bale) has been a prominent force in Gotham City for about a year. His presence has led to a lot of good; James Gordon (Gary Oldman) is doing a lot of good in the war against crime and has his own task force, the criminals of the city have far less power than before, and a new charismatic D.A named Harvey Dent (Aaron Eckhart) has emerged as Gotham’s White Knight, inspiring the citizens to seize their city back from the criminals. Even Batman sees the hope of Gotham lies with Dent. But Batman’s presence has also inspired The Joker (Heath Ledger), a crazed terrorist bent on anarchy and destruction. The Joker purposes that if the mob were to kill Batman, everything would go back to the way things were before. The mob, in their desperation, decides to hire The Joker to kill Batman. What follows is a city wide epic struggle between Batman and The Joker.

Many of the elements that made Batman Begins great return here as well, including the cast. Christian Bale still makes for an excellent Batman, and everything he pulled off in Batman Begins he pulls off in The Dark Knight too. Bale also takes the character further in this film. Batman is truly tested and pushed to his limits by The Joker and Bale does a great job bringing Batman to his edge. It’s a very multi-faceted performance, and in my opinion the best lead performance in any superhero film. Most of the supporting cast from Batman Begins are back too. Gary Oldman is even more of a badass as Gordon and is given a lot more to do here, including becoming Commissioner. Michael Caine is still a great Alfred, whether providing comedic relief, loving warmth, or insight and advice to Batman, Caine is constantly able to deliver. Morgan Freeman is also back as Lucius Fox and he’s still a very fun character. Not returning is Katie Holmes as Rachel Dawes, instead replaced by Maggie Gyllenhaal. While Rachel’s role isn’t nearly as prominent as it was in Batman Begins, I’m glad she was recast since Gyllenhaal brings a maturity and sophistication that Holmes doesn’t have.

Of course the performance that everyone raves about is Heath Ledger’s Oscar winning turn as The Joker. When The Dark Knight first came out, everyone was blown away with Ledger’s performance. Several people described him as the best Joker to ever grace the big screen and one of the greatest villains in film history. These people were right. While he may not be my favourite Joker (gotta go Batman: The Animated Series), Ledger delivers an outstanding performance. Everything Ledger does, from his movement to his voice to his speech pattern, is mesmerising. Ledger’s Joker has become an iconic film villain, and even The Dark Knight’s harshest critics admit that Ledger was great. What I personally love about this Joker is that he’s the perfect mix of being scary, funny, and interesting. What he does is horrifying, but he does have a morbid sense of humour which can be very funny. More than anything though, The Joker is a fascinating character who spending time with is a treat. Ledger deserves all the credit he gets, as do Christopher and Jonathan Nolan who wrote Joker’s incredible dialogue (Goyer only helped create the story). Lines like “Why so serious?” and “You wanna know how I got these scars?” are great, but Joker’s dialogue is great throughout, particularly in the interrogation scene, hospital scene, and in his final scene with Batman.

One cast member who I find is all too often overlooked is Aaron Eckhart as Harvey Dent. After the complete insult that was Batman Forever, I was aching for a good Harvey Dent, and Aaron Eckhart delivered. Of all the characters in The Dark Knight, it’s Harvey that changes the most. Through most of the film, Harvey is a noble person and someone willing to do damn near anything to make Gotham a better place. But as the film progresses, Harvey is pushed by The Joker and brought closer to madness. Joker eventually has Rachel killed and half of Harvey’s face is burnt. Though he physically has become Two-Face, it isn’t until The Joker convinces him that chance is the only real factor in life that Harvey truly becomes Two-Face. What I love about this iteration of Two-Face is that he does feel like a tragic figure. Even when he does villainous things in the film’s third act, he’s still sympathetic and I always acknowledged he was a victim too. Eckhart and the Nolan brothers also nailed Two-Face’s nihilistic view of the world. As Two-Face says himself, “The world is cruel, and the only morality in a cruel world is chance: unbiased, unprejudiced, fair.” Some people complain that Two-Face should not have died at the end of the film and that more could have been done with Two-Face in the sequel. I felt that way at first, but as time has gone by, I’ve realized that the way he dies in The Dark Knight is the perfect way for that character to go within the confines of the Nolanverse. Two-Face probably could have returned later on, but it may have watered the character down. Really, him dying served the character and story best. Bottom line, Aaron Eckhart made for both a great Harvey Dent and a great Two-Face, bringing the emotion and tragedy that I had always wanted to the screen flawlessly.

The story here is awesome. While Batman Begins was a relatively small-scale film (until the climax), The Dark Knight is a huge epic in the vein of something like Heat. It’s a battle for the soul of Gotham City between Batman and The Joker. It’s an engaging story, with plenty of twists and turns throughout. One of the great pleasures of The Dark Knight is just experiencing the story. Whether you’re watching Batman, Gordon, and Dent together trying to take down crime, or watching The Joker cause anarchy and destruction, the plot is constantly interesting. It’s also clear that a lot of effort was put into crafting an intricate story and if one were to not pay attention, they’d lose a lot of the film’s appeal. A big part of what makes the plot so thrilling is that the script never falls into the conventional storytelling of other superhero films. Instead, The Dark Knight challenges its audience to keep up with the plot. However this doesn’t feel like a chore given how carefully put together the film is. Now, there are some little holes with the story, such as the improbability that Bruce would be able to set up so many of the phones as sonar devices, but I can let these things slide given how invested I find myself getting in the story. Overall, The Dark Knight is a dramatic tale that for fans can also be quite the emotional ringer.

The Dark Knight also touches upon some major themes. The most obvious one is how terror is dealt with in a post 9/11 world. The film frequently refers to The Joker as a terrorist, and his plans involve blowing up buildings and creating anarchy. Batman frequently has to consider how far he needs to go to stop The Joker and how far is too far. Batman using the sonar cell phones, which give information at the expense of the privacy of others, can be easily compared to the privacy invading Patriot Act. The Dark Knight seems to argue that sometimes extreme measures are necessary. I don’t want to get into a political debate here, and I’m not saying that Nolan’s true intentions with The Dark Knight were to argue the merits of George Bush’s presidency, but themes regarding the war on terror are certainly there. The film also looks at whether human beings are inherently good or evil, and uses the ideologies of Batman and The Joker to ask this. Overall, the film concludes that human beings are inherently good (the people on the boats decide not to blow up the other for their own survival) but that even the noblest human being can become evil under certain circumstances (Harvey Dent’s descent into Two-Face).

One of my few criticisms with Batman Begins was the fight scenes, which I found fairly poor. Nolan completely fixes this in The Dark Knight. Nolan pulls the camera back during the fight scenes and does not cut away as much. This leads to far more fluid and exciting fight scenes. In fact, I’d say these are the best fight scenes in any live action Batman film. Of course, none of the Batman films had exceptionally good fight scenes, but even so. There’s also a ton of great action set pieces, including an exciting SWAT raid on a construction building, several fight scenes, and one of the greatest car chases ever put on film. The Dark Knight is also aided by some great cinematography by Wally Pfister and tight editing by Lee Smith. I also really like the score from Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard. It doesn’t have the same fantastical quality that the Danny Elfman scores for Batman and Batman Returns had, but the music is still very effective and memorable.

Overall, The Dark Knight is a brilliant film from a master filmmaker. It’s a film that can be appreciated on multiple levels. It works as an action film, a Batman film, a crime drama, an analysis on the war on terror, and as a study on the human spirit. I am biased, being a big Batman fan, but I do sincerely believe that The Dark Knight is a great film and one of my favourite films of all time. It’s the quality of Batman film I had waited my whole life for. Not only is it the pinnacle of Batman films, but it is still the pinnacle of superhero films and comic book adaptations. Great acting, great writing, great direction, great effects, The Dark Knight has it all. A must-see, interest in comic books not required.

Rating: A+



This concludes my Batman review series. I had a lot of fun writing these and I hope you’ve enjoyed reading them. The Batman films have certainly had an interesting history. They’ve been light and they’ve been dark, campy and dramatic, great and terrible, they’ve been everything. Through all the ups and downs, the Batman films have always meant a lot to me, and I imagine they always will. I can also say I admire what every filmmaker brought to Batman history. I appreciate Leslie H. Martinson helping make Batman and a lot of his rogues gallery house hold names, I appreciate Tim Burton bringing a darkness to the films, and I appreciate the realism and emphasis on character Nolan brought to Batman on film. I even appreciate Joel Schumacher, whose films were so bad it allowed the studio to take the series in a totally different direction with Christopher Nolan.

On July 20th, Nolan will bring his Batman trilogy to an end with The Dark Knight Rises. There will be more Batman films after it, but there will never be another Batman film from Christopher Nolan. As sad as it is to see Nolan walk away from this series, I’m glad to see him have the power to conclude his series the way he wants to. The Dark Knight Rises is easily my most anticipated film of the year, and I’m hoping Nolan and company will be able to deliver another great film, one that ends the series with dignity and respect. But even if The Dark Knight Rises sucks, everyone involved with the Nolan films should be proud with what they’ve accomplished. The series stands as the highest level of quality for comic book films, and hopefully The Dark Knight Rises will maintain such a high level of quality.

I have one more Batman post planned, an epilogue if you will. That post will go up on July 19th, or “Dark Knight Rises Eve”. To close my review series out though, I present to you how I’d rank the films. It’s probably real easy to predict how I’d rank the films based on my ratings, but here they are in one concise list.

1. The Dark Knight

2. Batman Begins

3. Batman (89)

4. Batman (66)

5. Batman Returns

6. Batman Forever

7. Batman and Robin

[bbf2]

I strongly dislike Batman Returns but it seems like most people don't agree with me on that. So its pretty satisfying for me to see someone rank it below a movie where Batman uses Bat-Shark Repellent and ends with him nonchalantly switching innocent peoples' brains around.

[Doomsday]

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLZQ3OLEJWE

[MovieBuff801]

I'm thinking of giving Batman Returns a re-watch tomorrow just for the hell of it.

[Dhamon22]

I like Batman Returns alot but I haven't seen it in a long time.

[Neverending]

Ya'll should re-watch Batman Returns.

[MovieBuff801]

Just got done re-watching Batman Returns, and my reaction is still the same: meh. My feelings can be summed up in three words: I don't care.

I don't care about The Penguin's plot to steal first-born kids. I don't care about his campaign to become Mayor. I don't care about Max Shreck's dirty dealings. I don't care about Catwoman's psychotic tendencies. The story is focused on all the wrong stuff. Batman/Bruce Wayne is BARELY in the first hour as a result and I'm sitting there thinking, "Why is the hero getting sidelined by the villains?"

Danny DeVito is really the weak link in the main three cast members; Keaton and Pfeiffer do fine, but he just overacts SO much. If that's the way the character was written, then I blame screenwriter Daniel Waters.

But I DO like Keaton and Pfeiffer, the score, the production design, the scenes where Batman picks off The Penguin's goons without a word spoken and the line: "Wanna talk about secrecy? Who let Vicki Vale into the Batcave?"

I'd call Batman Returns mediocre, rather than awful. What hurts it is a less-than-stellar script and the fact that most of the time, it plays too much like a freakshow. I'm usually a Burton apologist, but this is the hardest film of his for me to like.

**/****

[Justin]

But....the penguins pallbearers.

In all seriousness, The Penguins' plan had a solid motive behind it. It makes sense. I realize Batman Returns gets a lot of flak, most of it deserved, but the atmosphere and ending are pretty great. A lot of the circus stuff is cool too.

[MasterChief117]

I enjoy Batman Returns for one, two simple reasons. One, Michael Keaton...Two, that batsuit. That is all.

[Doomsday]

I'll let Neverending sing the praises of Batman Returns and I agree with him on pretty much all of them. But as I posted before in other threads, my main beef is that nothing is really that fleshed out. The power plant that Shreck wants to construct is mentioned maybe a couple of times. Therefore it's a little tough relating to his motives for staging a coup of Gotham politics. Penguin, as much as I liked the character, seems to bounce from plan to plan and they sometimes seem made up on the spot. Had his plan with murdering the sons of Gotham succeeded, would he have launched the rocket equipped penguins? He asserts that he wouldn't have. Because of these somewhat shallow villainous plots, Batman really doesn't have a whole lot to do. He's never in any real danger save for the Batmobile scene that he navigates quite easily. The rest of the time he just has to show up. Compare that to the end of Batman where he just gets his ass kicked backwards and forwards but still comes out on top. Speaking of endings, the ending of Batman Returns is also pretty anticlimactic. They save Gotham by....flipping a switch on a radio jammer. Then he storms Penguins base....after the Triangle Circus gang has already run away. Penguin tries to stab Batman but then falls through a window. Shreck shoots him with seemingly no effect. Again, compare that to the ending of Batman which is fantastic, the best one of the franchise I would say (Michael Keaton didn't need any sonar video games in Gotham Cathedral).

But that's just me being overly practical. There's still a whole lot to enjoy about Batman Returns, and as time passed since 1992 all the things that people complained about back then have been what makes it good; its adult themes, tremendous visuals, exciting action, great villains (I wasn't aware so many people dind't like DeVito's Penguin, I strongly disagree with them). The highlight though for me is Michelle Pfeiffer. I've already read reviews here and elsewhere saying that 'Anne Hathaway is way better.' I have a really tough time believing that. She was great in Batman Returns.

[Neverending]

A lot of the siller elements, like the rocket-powered Penguins, was done for the benefit of children. At the end of the day, it's still a summer blockbuster intended for kids. I give Burton a lot of credit for introducing psychology and methaphors to give the film a deeper meaning. This movie has a lot more to say about Batman, his universe, and his villains than any of the Nolan adaptations. And, Burton did it without beating you over the head with it.

[Doomsday]

And that's exactly what makes it good.

[MovieBuff801]

I admit the psychology was pretty well-handled, but as for the rest...agree to disagree.

Burton's first Batman is SO much better.