The Kid and the Girl (possible spoilers)

[Boiiinng]

OK, I'm not one to start new threads, but there hasn't been anything new in a while except that Metacortex thing, so here goes.

I was reading an interesting synopsis of the film on another forum and ran into something I hadn't read before. The synopsis didn't discuss this in depth, but it did describe that the girl at Mobil Ave. is the product of two programs and was hidden inside the mind of a human child hooked up to the Matrix, which I think has been mentioned before. However, it went on to say that after Neo had freed this human child, the girl became unprotected and was then captured by the Merovingian, which is why we have Rama selling out the Oracle to get his child back.

I started thinking, this human child must be important somehow. He/She had a sentient program living inside him/her. This child must have a unique connection to the Matrix, perhaps even like Neo. Who could this child be?

The Kid. The only one to release himself from the Matrix.

Any thoughts?

[superxero88]

impressive.

[logan350]

That makes sense

[Alien]

The only thoughts I have is, in a world of people with f**ked up names The Kid is kinda boring... Does he need to go through a graduation to get his 'name' or something?

But yeah good theory.

[Fanible]

He'll eventually get his name. We call that one dude "The Hobo" and "The Trainman" right now as well.

Actually the Kid has a name. We could call him by his name from the Animatrix I guess. I don't think we ever got his new real world name in Reloaded. He was just there. His cast credit even says "Kid".

[The Inc]

The Kid was a High School guy. This doesnt make sense. or im reading it wrong. lol.

I think she is the Next Oracle.

[superxero88]

Originally posted by The Inc
The Kid was a High School guy. This doesnt make sense. or im reading it wrong. lol.
did you even see the animatrix?

[The Moose]

nice theory there Boiiing

[dogisburning]

How does a program live inside a human???

[superxero88]

Originally posted by dogisburning
How does a program live inside a human???
where do babies come from?

[Malitos_Sahkir]

Micheal Popper was the Kid's real world name if I remember rightly.

[superxero88]

Originally posted by Malitos_Sahkir
Micheal Popper was the Kid's real world name if I remember rightly.
that or Michael Pauper. subtitles act weird during that short.

[Boiiinng]

Originally posted by dogisburning
How does a program live inside a human???

Bane

[Boiiinng]

Originally posted by The Inc
The Kid was a High School guy. This doesnt make sense. or im reading it wrong. lol.

I think she is the Next Oracle.

Does the human and the program need to be the same age?

[dogisburning]

Originally posted by Boiiinng
Bane
Smith wasn't living inside Bane,he just took over his mind(and appearence inside the matrix)...

[superxero88]

the bane/smith situation is different. smith overcame bane in the matrix, when bane jacked out of the matrix, he was still under the control of smith. if (as previously speculated) the child (Rama's little girl) was within the kid during his stay in the matrix |
ok i just lost my train of thought. can someone finish this for me?

[Boiiinng]

I see what you're saying about Bane. I was just pointing out that a Matrix program can inhabit a human mind, whether it's in control or not.

[G-Matrix]

It's nice to have interesting theories in the afroun oce again...coz' I'm totally tired of the MARG...and totally bored of seen the company site thread grown like hell every day..Nice work boiinnng

[A Guy]

the company site thread is multiplying like SMITH!!! SOON IT WILL ENCOMPASS THE ENTIRE SITE AND WE WILL ALL BE POSTING EXCLUSIVELY IN THAT THREAD! actually i like that thread.....i just keep checking back to see what they find....but if you miss a day you have to go through 100 million posts to catch up....

[G-Matrix]

right

[darthspielberg]

Okay Wait... What kid (Spoon) and what girl. Are you thinking about the little girl in the Revolutions trailer?

[superxero88]

Originally posted by darthspielberg
Okay Wait... What kid (Spoon) and what girl. Are you thinking about the little girl in the Revolutions trailer?
Girl
http://hostmysig.com/data/superxero88/neo_child.jpg
kid
the annoying one from the begining of reloaded.
edit: got a picture now
http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rv_img/photo_rev_oct_10.jpg

[dogisburning]

In other words,the "Neo-worshipper"

[RyansRing]

Well in an interview with the actor who plays the Kid, he tells us that his character plays an absolutely HUGE part in Revolutions, he also goes on to say that if ever there is a part 4 that he would most probably be one of the main characters and that Neo wouldnt even be there. I was thinking that maybe Neo's position in the whole story was that he actually discovered the 'Saviour' not Morpheus. I know this seems far out, but in the interview he was really hinting at his part in the whole saga as being something extremely significant. Also they had a whole Animatrix story dedicated to him... I guess i aint saying anything that makes sense....or even new :)

[dogisburning]

It's said that he kicks ass in Revolutions defending Zion.

[terarist]

I like Boiiing's theory. I think it's probably right, and a disparity in gender and age seems a trifle, compared to an agent assuming the body of an elderly woman.

[RyansRing]

In the inteview i read, he hinted at being more than just a kick ass soldier dude, he actually says that he plays a significant role...(significant as in a lead role) and that if there were to be a Part 4 he would be a leading character, more leading than Morpheus, Trinity, and Neo. Why would he say that if he were only a 'NORMAL ass kicking guy (unless he turns out to be a major kick ass), from the look of him though he couldnt do much in the battle side of things, he's too scrawny...but i guess we aint gonna know till Revolutions comes. But i do believe that he has quite a big part to play in the saving of Zion...

And dont you think the Wachowski Bro's are gonna suprise us in Part 3 with something HUGE? Possibly using the Kid as a twist, i mean using the name "The Kid" is a sign that they are using him in an anonymous way, possibly to build a sense of mystery until they finally drop a bomb of a suprise. Unlike most of the other characters he hasnt got a name that is symbolic (with the exception that it symbolises that he is indeed young), using a symbolic name kind of gives clues and hints to where a character in the story is going to lead (ie. Morpheus: Dreams/visions...Nebachanezzar king of dreams..."i dreamed a dream and now that dream is taken from me"). All im saying is that The Kid is a very ambiguous and mysterious character and i wouldnt be surprised if the boys are purposely doing that so that they can drop a major suprise on us in Revolutions. And now that Neo might not be the big saviour he turns out to be...doesnt that leave an opening for someone to be the all supreme??

But this is one of many theories.

[terarist]

If in fact the MFN spoilers are true, and if in fact this "kid" plays a pivotal role within the final sequel, anonymity would be key, since a symbolic name, as many characters have, would perhaps give the plot of the third film away.

[RyansRing]

So were you kinda agreeing with me...lol...hope so....MFN? did they have a story spoiler article thing?

[terarist]

message boards.

[RyansRing]

oh, didnt even realise they had one....shame!

[terarist]

but it would be interesting to perceive neo as the john the baptist character, rather than the christ.

and then again, thinking on the "ministry of christ", it makes more sense for "everyone" to be "children of god", and that neo's abilities are not necessarily unique to him. That what the kid represents is the usher in of this particualr enlightenment, where some of neo's abilities are not "special", and that neo's messianic act, is revelation, of the true nature and "gifts" of "all god's children".

That was way too liturgically referential.

[awakened]

amen

[RyansRing]

I believe kinda the John the Baptist theory, however where than does Morpheus stand...Does he stand in as the visionary who "dreams/visions" the whole path of the One? Maybe the Kid is the "One" and Morpheus so wanted to find the "Saviour" that when he found Neo he thought him to be "The One" when in fact Neo was the Individual who was to find the true Saviour of Zion.
Than that in turn would go on to show that everyone does infact have the powers Neo has but because Neo had the blind faith of Morpheus and the others that he began to believe and that in turn exposed him to a somewhat true "enlightment".

But than that doesnt explain why Neo's name is infact the meaning of "The One" And the whole Ander. thing

[terarist]

well, traditional interpretations of the matrix films, usually by westerners keen to impose the gauze of Christianity over the "cornucopia" (tis canadian thanksgiving) of symbology within the films, places morpheus as the John the Baptist Character, since he heralds the coming of the messiah, and the salvation of the Jews. Then comes the messiah, Neo, and John (Morpheus) accedes his ministry to the "true" master, the true messiah.

But what if Neo is actually John the Baptist, and Morpheus is Elijah (which, kind of makes sense, if you know anything about Elijah, and all his weird, prophetic dreams, and Morpheus symbolically representing the lord of dreams). If that's the case, then Neo, like John the Baptist, clearcuts a fairly extreme path through the Roman (matrix) empire, showing a great deal of power and sway with the people, and the world at large. He might be heralding the coming of an end, or a messiah, or something.

I only make the point, that at the time of John the Baptist, pre-Christ, and even during Christ's ministry, there were a lot of people who actually believed that John might be the "one". If we are experiencing a visualized oral tradition at it's earliest incarnation, we could be witnessing a religious revolution of sorts, as neo gives his ministry to another.

But I'm just playing with christian scripture, and it really doesn't do the films justice to place it within such a limited template. And I really have no clue how it will all play out.

Its nice to postulate, though.

[superxero88]

Originally posted by dogisburning
It's said that he kicks ass in Revolutions defending Zion.
is that the part where morpheus is like
"He fights for us :eek: "

[RyansRing]

Quite possibly, but i think he actually is talking about Neo.

[RyansRing]

I rekon that most paths lead to the whole Neo being the John the Baptist character in the story, and thats an interesting point with the Elijah theory. But didnt he prophesy Christs birth, but in the movie he was infact wrong about his predictions in Neo being the one. But i guess those two points are contradictory...so i rekon its deffintely one or the other. Im getting confused...lol

[dogisburning]

Acording the MFN's spoilers,he's talking about the kid,but the spoilers might be fake...

[RyansRing]

i wouldnt take the spoilers for real, theres so many bull***tters out there...but i guess it possibly could be real?

[dogisburning]

Well,if it's real,it's exceptable for me.

[RyansRing]

i guess we'll find out Nov 5th, if he's a liar, to the stake he goes.

[Skrybe]

Whatever happened to the Matrix being heavily rooted in Gnosticism? Just thought I'd throw that out there . . .

[superxero88]

Originally posted by Skrybe
Whatever happened to the Matrix being heavily rooted in Gnosticism? Just thought I'd throw that out there . . .
maybe you could throw it out into its own thread?

[Skrybe]

Good point. LOL

[Reemer]

alright, back to this point: if the Kid is the One, and Neo isn't, how come he was able to access the door to meet with the architect? the keymaker and the architect themselves stated that only the One could be in that spot, plus, the architect noted to Neo that he was the sixth. if Neo really wasn't the anomoly then surely the architect woulda known.
and it's pretty brave of the actor playing the Kid to boldly state that he's got a huge part in Revolutions and to speculate that if there was a fourth he'd be a major character when I imagine the WB would have him be more quiet about his roll in the Matrx than any of the other actors who still won't say jack about the film.
personally, I hope the Kid isn't a big factor in the climax to the trilogy. so much focus has been on everyone else, especially Neo, and so, so, so, so, so, so, so little on the Kid. to flip a u-turn in the closing moments of this saga doesn't sound like closure like Lucas did so well with Jedi, it just sounds like more unanswered questions.

[dogisburning]

It depends on what your definition of "The One" is.
If the One means the guy that saves the world,yes the kid can be the One.
If the One means the anomaly with the super powers,Neo is the One.

[Reemer]

but then that would make the Two

[dogisburning]

What's "The Two" suppose to mean?

[terarist]

Well, there's a couple ways to approach this possibility, and ultimately, that's all it is, a possibility.

You could approach it with the distinction that's embedded within the film itself, that not only is neo the "one", the 6th one, but he is the one, the actual "one" who will end the cycle and truly save the humans.

Perhaps Neo is the one, the integral anomaly, the 6th incarnation, and perhaps sean/kid is something else, altogether, maybe he's not even a saviour, maybe he represents a step forward in human evolution, ala his self actualized exit from the matrix without need of pill, or program.

Search me.

The roots of gnosticsm have not been forgotten, dear skrybe. It's plainer than plain, like white bread and peanut butter. The trick, however is to understand which is truly the cage, and which is truly the escape. Gnosticism, holds not only that this reality is an illusion, but also that this flesh is a cage. The automatic interpretation is that the matrix is the gnostic reality, the gnostic illusion that imprisons us, the thing that must be escaped.

But what if it's not? What if the key is the "fleshly cage" is the important interpretation? Either way, as messianic myth, neo still plays fine, resulting in enlightenment, and the diffusion of the illusion.

It's just a matter of determining which is truly the illusion, and which is truly not, which is heaven, and which is hell.

I suspect that the true heaven can be found somewhere within the matrix, and not without.

But what do I know? Just one girls opinion...

[RyansRing]

You are so extremely good Terarist....Thats probably a big question in what the Matrix really is...whether it is ultimately necessary or not, because life cannot go on without evil, the matrix being the evil factor. But than again maybe like the councellor said, the machines may be our salvation, and the matrix is somehow necessary for our survival. Survival from ourelves and the harsh discisions that mankind make. I dont think they are ever going to be able to release everyone out of the matrix, it would drive people mentally insane, but maybe the humans would take control of the matrix. And another thing is that once they destroy the machine threat what than? Humans still need machines to survive do they not?

Now to Reemer...We never actually said that Neo isnt in any way the One (but than again...i will never rub out the possiblilty), but just that the Kid possibly plays a bigger part than any of us expect, like Terarist said...a step on the road to a conclusion. I do wonder however if the other 6 previous anomaly's were considered "The One" or if its just Neo?

And i dont think there is going to be a complete closure on the series, they are going to make a twist, they are going to make the ending memorable, and using a twist is the best way.

But back to the Kid, maybe he wont be 'The One' but what do you think the definition of the One is? Is it the beginning or the end? If Neo is the God figure than God has no beginning and no end, alpha and omega, maybe Neo was the Last 6 anomaly's, it never said he isnt, maybe Neo will keep doing his part in keeping the Matrix alive for all those who cannot be released (becasue they are so helpessly reliant on it)....Maybe the Kid is the Jesus...he is brought into the Real World (Earth) by Neo (God) than fights for Zion (Jesus's Ministry unto the Jews) and than he will save man (The crucifiction...the surprise ending when all is revelaed). Thus making Zion victorious and than starting building up human kind once again.

I know this theory has many plot holes, but im pretty tired, so ill try to fill in the gaps later...

[RyansRing]

But once again...what if Neo...was infact the last 6 "The Ones", the last 6 anomaly's, maybe every other anomaly wasnt altogether another person but was infact Mr Anderson, what if every time he has gotten to the descision about the doors he made the same one...maybe the only difference this time is that he released THE KID.

[dogisburning]

Nah,they were probably all different people.Or else it would be like.....
Trinity:Hey,doesn't Neo look like a certain someone?
Morpheus:Huh?Isn't he the guy from before?

[terarist]

I wouldn't identify Neo as god. He's the personification of something, but he is not the encapsulation of godhood.

He is the gnostic superman, meant to lead humanity out of the illusion, to free them of their fleshly cages.

No, you're right, there can't be complete closure.

[Reemer]

the difference this time when Neo had to chose between the two doors was Trinity. he didn't look at the door and say, "I gotta go back to Zion and have that little **** bug me through every corridor." and I can see the film not bringing true closure, which isn't how I'd prefer it but I ain't making the damn films so that doesn't matter. which brings me to RyansRing, why do you keep asking me what my definition of the One is? my definition of the One is irrelevant, it's what the story's definition of the One is. however, maybe the One isn't what matters, he just freed Zion but the Kid will lead them to next step as terarist states. it all comes down to how the WB put it on film cuz on paper it sounds like the biggest disappointment in cinematic history...

[RyansRing]

Originally posted by Reemer
which brings me to RyansRing, why do you keep asking me what my definition of the One is? my definition of the One is irrelevant

I wasnt exactly asking JUST you what your deffinition of the One is...i was mainly throwing a question in the air as a topic point, to brainstorm, isnt that whatt a message board is for, to discuss, debate, ask and answer questions?