The Dark Tower

[EnderDeschain]

I notice a few folks seem to like this series. So I thought I'd talk about it some.

Who wants to bet Roland never makes it to the Tower? I'd damn near put money on it. I predict that Eddie dies along the way (you can see that one coming), Suzannah has her freakazoid half-demon kid, then probably dies herself. Leaving Jake, Roland, and the kid. Roland takes Jake damn near there, then gets killed, probably by the Ageless Stranger. Jake somehow survives this, Roland probably having given his life to protect the two of them (his penance for what he did in "The Gunslinger"), so Jake and the Dean kid enter the Tower. What happens then I haven't a clue.

I'm probably horribly off. I hope I am. On the one hand I, like probably everyone else, really want to see the Gunslinger's quest realized. But on the other hand I think King probably has something else planned. These are just my thoughts on the subject. Am I close, do you think?

[ambrosia]

I'd say you're off. Stephen King already gave hints as to what is coming up when Roland looked into that pink ball thingy in book four. Ike is the most likely to die next and their next opponents are probably going to be vampires as well. They'll undoubtably be running into Rhea of the Coo's again also. *Shudder*

If you haven't noticed yet, this book series takes us through all the worlds Stephen King has written about prior.
The two major worlds we've passed through so far are 'The Stand' (Which is where Flagg comes from) and 'The Eye of the Dragon' (Which I think is where Roland and the comes from.)

The Next world will probably be from 'Salems Lot.'

[PsychoMike]

I agree that Roland may not make it to the Tower. I do think that the others will. We probobly won't find out anything more about the the Dean kid until book 6 ("Song of Susannah").

I don't think vampires will be major in the next book, my thought is werwolves. I keep thinking of Wolf from "The Talisman" when I read the title. And there is already a connection between "The Talisman"/"Black House" and The Dark Tower.

I also think before they get to the tower they will pick up a few more people in there ka-tet (besides the Dean kid) before they reach the tower. Maybe people we already know.

[EnderDeschain]

I don't think it's exactly taking a tour of King's various worlds. I'd more say that Roland's universe is the place where they all come together, where they all overlap. When we see Father Callahan we won't be in the same place Salem's Lot took place, but it will be the same character. Same thing with Ted Brautigan. And who was that kid in "Insomnia"? "Him's name is Roland, momma. Him's a king, too." I think maybe I missed something obvious there. Are we supposed to already know who he is, or will he come in later?

The hints given thus far are vague and insubstantial, and none of them imply that Roland will actually make it. I don't see vampires coming into the picture, 'cuz it would be sort of redundant after "Little Sisters of Eluria". Unless he continues off that, maybe. I hadn't heard the title to part 6, which makes me concur with the assumption that that's when we'll see the kid. And really, how many more people can this band pick up before it becomes too crowded? Not many, I think.

I kind of miss Roland the loner already, the guy who was willing to drop kids into chasms if it would get him closer to the Tower. He's starting to remind of the T-800 from T2. He's kind of going soft. And the worst part is that I think he's going to continue in this direction, even though King writes stuff like "in his heart of hearts, he wondered." I really think he'll probably end up dying for Jake, lame as that will be. Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully so.

[ambrosia]

You're right by saying that the worlds are overlapping, that's kinda what I meant. Where seeing King's worlds, by reason of their being something up with the Dark Tower.

The little Sisters of Eluria short story was, at least I thought it to be, a further confirmation of my own assumption that we'd be taking a detour through a world not unlike salems lot. (It was a personal creative favortie of King's afterall) I had read a passage that lead me to believe this in book four when Roland is looking into the Glass and seeing the future, but sadly I can't recall the passage by memory.

I read a synopsis for 'Wolves of the Calla' the fifth book of the series and it seems that there'll be no vamps. No probs here :D

BTW, I haven't heard of Stephen king already having entitled the sixth book. Where did you get that from?

[PsychoMike]

Originally posted by ambrosia
BTW, I haven't heard of Stephen king already having entitled the sixth book. Where did you get that from?

I've heard it a few places on Stephen Kings website and the site for Donald M. Grant publishers (they published the original limited edition hard cover books). Also in the Forward for the updated version of The Gunslinger. I aslo found out the books 6 and 7 are almost complete (editing and artwork left) and will published next year, Feb. and Nov. I think.

Book 5 The Wolves of the Calla
Book 6 Song of Sussanah
Book 7 The Dark Tower

[kauvarvo]

I just started "The Gunslinger" and at the moment am reading it every chance I get...

[Miasma]

I have a strong suspicion that Roland won't the tower. I think he'll die, but as he's dying, he'll somehow open the way for Jake to get there. I have no idea why I think this... I have a vague recollection of King hinting towards something like this, but I don't know what he said or where I read it.

[PsychoMike]

Any Idea what book five is about?

I think it will be another story of Roland's past. Probobly dealing with Farson, the fall of Gilead, Death of The other Gunslingers, and the Start of Roland's quest.

Edited to add: I think I remember somwhere King mentioning that There might be two books of Roland's past. And since Wizard and Glass was the firs this should be the second.

[Riddle]

You guys should read The Talisman, and more importantly it's sequel Black House.

For those who've read both, you know what I'm talking about.

[PsychoMike]

I agree. Although I haven't found a direct link between The Talisman and Dark Tower except through Black House.

However I have been wondering about the talisman itself and Maerlyns Rainbow.

[MovieFreak]

I just bought the gunslinger havent started reading it yet...I have a few other books to read before i start it but it looks like it will be awesome...

[lotrrotkbpf]

i think roland will die. jake and rolands roles will be reversed and jake sacrifices roland for the tower. eddie and susannah will both succumb to their demon child.

[lotrrotkbpf]

something tells me "song of susannah" wont be a happy song

[PsychoMike]

Originally posted by lotrrotkbpf
something tells me "song of susannah" wont be a happy song

I agree with you there. Or it cpould just be the end of Susannah's part of the quest. King has hinted that one of the remaining books will take place mostly in jake/eddie/susannah's NY posible book 6? (this could have changed it was written at the end of book 4)

I still think Travlin' Jack or Parkus will make an appearence before the end of the seris. I think jack is the only one to have seen Thunderclap (again I could be wrong).

[Il Duce]

Flagg is actually in the Eyes of the Dragon as well as the Stand. And a similar thing happens to him at the end of both books.
And Stephen King said something about the Gunslinger Series being a sequel to all his books, so I wonder if It is going to make a comeback as well.

[PsychoMike]

Originally posted by Il Duce
Flagg is actually in the Eyes of the Dragon as well as the Stand. And a similar thing happens to him at the end of both books.
And Stephen King said something about the Gunslinger Series being a sequel to all his books, so I wonder if It is going to make a comeback as well.

At the end of book 4 Flagg left a note saying he was waiting in Thunderclap.

I think before they get to the tower Flagg has to be defeated, once and for all.

[gunslinger]

Originally posted by PsychoMike
Any Idea what book five is about?

I think it will be another story of Roland's past. Probobly dealing with Farson, the fall of Gilead, Death of The other Gunslingers, and the Start of Roland's quest.

Edited to add: I think I remember somwhere King mentioning that There might be two books of Roland's past. And since Wizard and Glass was the firs this should be the second.


maybe not...I believe that they may be crossing into the 'Salems Lot reality..and I believe we may see Father Calahan(sp?).

[ambrosia]

Originally posted by gunslinger
maybe not...I believe that they may be crossing into the 'Salems Lot reality..and I believe we may see Father Calahan(sp?).

Stephen King has said that Salems Lot (Jerusalems Lot) will be making an appearance but he didn't say when only that it will. I'll try and find a link pretating to that piece of information but I think he says it somewhere on his website as well.

[Kyroc]

I do have to say that it is a great thing people are talking up thiese books. It saddens me when I meet so many King fans but find out they don't want to or have not read any of the Dark Tower series. There's just too much going on in these books and the other books linked to it to pass up!

Any way I just have a few quick comments:

-In the Talisman when Jack and Richard are traveling on the train the landscape kind of reminds me of the way the Wastelands are described

-In Black House Speedy/Parkus talks about the Little Sisters of Eluria while talking about the last band of gunslingers

-I have a feeling that the whole werewolf thing is probably a good guess

-Has everyone read the article at amazon.com of the interview with King as he talks Dark Tower and the rumor of retirement.... its definately worth a look

I'll crawl back into my hole now.....

[pennywise]

So are Marten and Walter the same person? I kept getting them confused. and what does book five deal with?

[lotrrotkbpf]

to read what book five is about go to amazon.com
also i think that the 7 dark tower books are a pattern
1 and 7 are the beginning and the end (duh) its the only thing i could come up with.
2 and 6 are in new york
3 and 5 are the first half of the journey in roland world and the last half
4 is the odd ball. i tells just history. it will be the only history one because in it, it was explained the origins of rolands quest for the tower.
theres my theory

[Kyroc]

I have to agree on the pattern. I also would like to know what you think of the rose in the abandoned lot that Jake finds. The whole rose thing keep coming back in places but very subtle.

[ambrosia]

Roses represent the Dark Tower with its fields of that particular brand of flower.
The Lot where Jack found the Rose represents the world the Dark Tower is in and the Rose is the Dark Tower itself. The Lot is condemned and falling apart, just like Rolands world and the rose is the last good thing of the old world left standing.

[lotrrotkbpf]

king said in the end of book 4 that the rose needs to be protected for it is the dark tower in their world. that rose will play a huge part in the books that follow.

[Kyroc]

don't you think that their return trip to NYC will end up in the abandoned lot protecting the rose..... cause if there is a pattern that single rose may be the gate in which they use to get to the tower.

[lotrrotkbpf]

yep. i agree with you they have to protect the rose. if the rose is destroyed then the tower itself is destroyed or unreachable

[Kyroc]

this also sets up an interesting point... who dies defending the rose or does everyone live to encounter the Ageless stranger(which is another topic that can be debated of who is the agless stranger?)?

[lotrrotkbpf]

hmmmm. i am pretty sure susannah will die from her demon child and eddie might get killed by the ageless stranger.
the review on amazon.com tells that calvin tower from dark tower 3 is being pushed by a gang to sell the empty lot. maybe that gang are the ageless strangers cronies or something. maybe flagg is the ageless stranger.

[EnderDeschain]

Backtracking a bit to a question posed by Pennywise, yes, Marten and Walter are the same person. I was a bit confused on this issue myself until I read the new, "revised" edition of The Gunslinger, in which it's pretty much spelled out for us that yes, Marten and Walter were in fact one. Is Walter really dead? That I find really hard to believe.

I think you guys are overestimating the Rose thing. I don't think the Rose is the Tower itself, and saying that destroying the Rose destroys the Tower may be inaccurate, because my understanding of it is that the only way to bring down the Tower is to destroy or sufficiently weaken the Beams. Or, rather, Beam, since only one is at fully functioning strength now.

In any case, thanks for tipping me off about Black House. I had no intentions of reading it, as I didn't like The Talisman much, until you guys on this thread clued me in as to it's Towercentric elements. Now I'm glad I did. It was good and I simply loved Roland and his band being referred to as "the cavalry". Great stuff, great stuff.

[Kyroc]

King himself stated that the rose thing is a very important part of the dark tower series. and considering the references to the lot as being the beam from the turtle. also there have been things saying that marten/walter is also the good man farson. he really gets around then don't he.

[ambrosia]

I hope we saw more Guardians. The bear was kinda neat :p

[lotrrotkbpf]

i think that walter was the advisor of the good man

[pennywise]

and this Ageless Stranger, he can assume different shapes and such? Is he or is he not called Flag? or is that another form of his?

[ambrosia]

Ageless Stranger is just another title he carries around and Walter wasn't the Flagg's advisor but his spy. His subordinate.
Flagg is also known as, Richard Fannin, Merlin, Maerlin, the Magician, The Good Man and The Wizard of OZ. :p

Flagg is the Servant of the Crimson King

[lotrrotkbpf]

i think that flagg went to new york and he will be killed in new york in book six.

[LegolasIsntSexy]

damn, Flagg always confused the hell out of me. so many names, and the whole time i had thought that Mearlyn, Merlin, blah blah, etc. etc, were totally different people. can anyone enlighten me on this?

Walter is the Man In Black, correct?
And Marten was...? Sorry its been a while since I read the books.

[EnderDeschain]

Marten is Walter. They're both the guy who told Roland to go and find his hand, who pushed him into an early test of manhood. Different names for one guy, who's an underling for Farson, the Good Man, aka Flagg, aka the Ageless Stranger, aka The Walkin' Dude, aka et cetera et cetera.

[PsychoMike]

"I've been called Merlin, or Mearlyn, But I was never that one..."

Richard Fanin (Flagg) said this when asked by Andrew Quick (the Tick-tock man) who he was.

I think it means that he pretended to be Merlin/Maerlyn at some point in time.

Flagg is a powerful being probobly the top servent of the Crimson King.

As for the rose I think it is only a representation of the tower in the world of Jake. The only way it will be destroyed is if the last beam breaks and the tower falls. Most likely at the exact same time.

[LegolasIsntSexy]

ok thanks for enlightening me...yay Wolves of the Calla in a few weeks!

[lotrrotkbpf]

have any of you read the prolugue to wolves of the calla? it sounds pretty interesting.

[LegolasIsntSexy]

no actually i havent, but i really want to, havent gotten the time to go and read it online or buy the wizard and glass book with the excerpt in the back.

[PsychoMike]

I haven't read the prologue either. Since it'll be out in a few weeks I'll just wait for the book to come out.

[lotrrotkbpf]

are you guys going to dish out the cash for WotC? or you gonna wait. personally im going to buy it the second it comes out. (well maybe not the second... 8>)

[LegolasIsntSexy]

im buying it the day it comes out

[PsychoMike]

I'll get it the day it comes out, or atleast sometime that week.

[lotrrotkbpf]

the time is coming very fast.

one thing that annoys me about the upcoming release dates is that Song of Susannah doesnt come out till august first 2004 followed by the Dark Tower in november.

Song of Susannah should definately be released earlier. april would make them come out in six month intervals.

[PsychoMike]

I thought that Song of Susannah was coming out in June 2004. I could be wrong.

[tides0fmarch]

I have read Wolves of the Calla and I can say that it is the best of the series so far. Sooooo many surprises!! You will not be disappointed.

[pennywise]

how'd u read it? i thought it didnt come out until like next week.

[tides0fmarch]

I got an advance reader's copy (ARC) a couple of months ago.

[LegolasIsntSexy]

Hi-oh! I finally have it! Wolves of the Calla, yea!

So far, so good is all I'm saying. Im on Ch. 2. Hey, im not a hardcore reader it'll probably take me a while to finish it. And btw, please, i might come back here and take a peek so please to anyone who gets far into the book and reads spoilerific things, please post them in spoiler tags! and if you dont know how...then, just dont post the spoilers, damnit, it wont hurt.

[Riddle]

Half done WOTC right now....
I might post a quick review of it when I'm done.....(maybe another 2 days or so)

[pennywise]

just finished Wolves of The Calla last night. The big fact about the wolves that they keep secret until the final battle is pretty predictable, but anywho, it was a good book. I still like #2 better though, it was the most consistent without getting tiring. The final battle with the wolves was short but it was still good. The thing that bugged me was how there was no afterword about what the next book will be about. My expectations are low since it is entitled "Song of Susanah". And it was pretty amusing at the end with Callahan and a certain book.

[EnderDeschain]

Hm. I finally got the chance to read Wolves. It could have been better. Who is this Roland that's walking around now? What happened to the bad-ass, wade-through-hell, drop-little-kids-into-chasms, Allie-killin' mofo that was around in the first two volumes? Now Stephen King's even changed around the thing where he shot Allie, in the new revised edition of Gunslinger. What got me hooked on this was Roland as the Man With No Name in the spaghetti westerns, just a ruthless, cold bastard who would stop at nothing to get to the Tower. Now he jokes, he cries, he campaigns, he even dances the commala. Ah well. I guess the fifth book was okay, it's just taking the main character (and he is still the main character, damn it) in a different direction than I'd like. I share Pennywise's sentiments on the sixth. Song Of Susannah? That does not sound very promising. I think it kind of ruins the rhythm that the subtitles had going, too. And I'm not too enthused about the whole thing with the book and Callahan at the end. This is just gonna get wonky, I suspect. But I'll be there 'til the end, that's for sure.

[Xeno21]

I think what you're seeing is what Roland use to be like before the world "moved on". He wasn't always the ruthless person he started out to be in the Gunslinger. Here is a man who has seen his friends, family, way of life, etc. slowly being destroyed. That would turn anyone's heart cold.

That's my 2 cents, for what it's worth!

[pennywise]

how long do we have to wait for the next books?

[Xeno21]

Song of Susannah - Summer 2004
The Dark Tower - November 2004

I got this from the Stephen King website.

[LegolasIsntSexy]

Just finished it last night...christ i cant believe it took me almost a month to finish it! Damn good book, I must say, especially the end. The battle, while short (and sad:( ), was still very good and to the point. And especially the certain book at the end. very clever. but what does that mean? anyone think of anything?

i was definitely not let down from this book, and im eagerly anticipating the 6th and 7th chapter. nice cliffhanger there, stephen.

[Marvin Nash]

Quit talking about Steven King Mike. They know it's you. Your lucky you haven't gotten banned again. Lol.

[Superman is #1]

It's been so long since I read the DT books that I can't remember much about them. I'm going to wait till all of them are out and read them all at once.:)

[LegolasIsntSexy]

Originally posted by Marvin Nash
Quit talking about Steven King Mike. They know it's you. Your lucky you haven't gotten banned again. Lol.

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