Oliver Stone's Alexander the Great

[KayTang999]

Filming start in July and it seems like this one will hit theater before Baz's one.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Interesting

[KayTang999]

From Dark Horizons:

Alexander the Great - Directed by Oliver Stone. Biopic based on the life of Alexander the Great, the young Macedonian general who conquered 90% of the world. This follows his eight year campaigns into Persia, Egypt, and India along with his close male and female relationships.
Stars: Colin Farrell

Alexander: Ends of the Earth - Directed by Baz Luhrmann. Biopic based on the life of Alexander the Great, the young Macedonian general who conquered 90% of the world. This follows his earlier years from the death of his father to his intial takeovers into Greece and beyond.
Stars: Leonardo DiCaprio, Nicole Kidman

See the different???

[kojs]

i see , Oliver's looks much better. Luhrmann's looks gay.

[KayTang999]

My problem with Baz is Leo. I can't see him as a great conquerer. He just doesn't do it.

[Blueman]

yeah plus oliver is a way better director

[creamy]

Oliver is a better director, but I HATE Collin Farell.

[KayTang999]

I pick Colin over Leo any day. Oliver's first choice was Heath but Heath felt that the homosexual tone is not what he want to do.

[creamy]

Oliver's first choice was Tom Cruise actually. Stone really wanted to work with Cruise on this one, and so did Cruise, but because of the conflicting schedules of of both men, this couldn't happen. Now he picked Colin Farell, who is an OK actor, but certainly not at the same pitch as Cruise or Leo for that matter.

[KayTang999]

It was Cruise??? Cause when I first heard about this project which was a year back and it was attach with Heath. Hmmm, interesting.

[Harley Quinn]

hmmm...I don't think I like Leo OR Collin for this part. Tom might've been interesting.

[KayTang999]

Well, they are not the perfect choice for the role for sure. But if Tom is going to be Alexander the Great, that would be interesting to see how they transform him for age to age.

[kojs]

Johnny Deep would be awesome for that role.

[KayTang999]

Johnny Depp as Alexander the Great? Nope that is not Depp role. Totally not. It is just it is not his type of role. I can see Johnny being Hannibal, better than Vin Diesel.

[kojs]

dude i hate vin diesel sounds like gas company, i just hate that guy and all his movies, he sucks.

[KayTang999]

I have only seen 2 of his work and both not in theater, thank God. I have seen Fast and Furious and Pitch Black.

[Hitman]

Hey c'mon guys. Vin came through in Saving Private Ryan but even that was limited screen time. Now we know why. Anyway, Oliver's sounds a hella lot better. I think Colin Farell's a great choice for the role. I might be looking foward to Alexander The Great in the future.

[KayTang999]

Well, for me Saving Private Ryan don't count cause he wasn't the lead in that one.

For me, I think he is a bit overrated.

[Omega Supreme]

For me, Vin Diesel is completly talentless.

I could see Collin Farrell playing a Greek/Macedonian, but I definatly couldn't see Tom Cruise doing it. I'm glad he's not going to be in either. Leo is too much of a wuss as well.

I actually really want to see Farrell do this one...

[KayTang999]

Me too Omega but I have other reason to see Oliver Stone's version. Beside Oliver himself and Colin being Alexander.

[Omega Supreme]

What reason is that??

[Piaro]

Originally posted by kojs
i see , Oliver's looks much better. Luhrmann's looks gay.

Ditto

[Piaro]

Wow, I didn't know Cruise was Oliver's first choice. I think it would've been the best and the box office would be way better.

[KayTang999]

Originally posted by Omega Supreme
What reason is that??

Well if my source is right, they casted Jonathan Rhys Meyers as Cassander and I think that is perfect beside the fact that he is one of my favorite actors.

[Harley Quinn]

I like him too, seems like a very intense actor. Oh and he's really hot ;p

[KayTang999]

ITA!!! My AV is him!!! He is probably the best out there when you compared all actors around his age.

He have done so many dark roles and he did them so perfectly. Too bad filmakers don't really notice him until Bend It Like Beckham. Which was a really good movie.

[Harley Quinn]

yeah, I noticed your AV. niiiiiice :D

[KayTang999]

Thank you!!! I have him on other board AV too but not like this one.

I wonder since Nicole will be Olympia for Baz, then who will be for Oliver.

I only heard 4 casts from Oliver.

[creamy]

Im sorry I just cant see Farell doing it. Oliver Stone himself wasn't too sure when he hired Farell (and I think he still isn't sure) because he's just not right for the role.

I think Cruise was really perfect and I can see why Stone went to him first. Too bad he's not doing it.

[roxx]

Yes, I too read about Cruise as Stone's original choice. I remember an interview with Stone, not too long ago, where he talked about how they drew a sketch of Cruise in the costumes and stuff and he was beyond perfect for the role. Unfortunetely, the guy has too many projects under his belt.

Now before all you Cruise haters start whining about how bad Cruise would have been, mind you, that the world opposed to Oliver stone to cast Cruise as Ron Kovic in Born on the fourth of july. And look what happened there. He was robbed blind of an oscar.

[KayTang999]

I don't know, I think Tom doesn't have the Greek look. But then again, make up always does the magic.

[roxx]

I can imagine him as Alex the great, and so could Stone who wanted Cruise as his first choice. But like I said, Tom never had the vampire look, and again, look at him interview with the vampire. Yikes!
http://www.nuvein.com/archived_cinnews_site/michelle_burke/vampire3.jpg

[KayTang999]

But that is different though that vampire. You can make anyone look like one with just a fang but can you actually make a person with new nationality that is totally different from his/her originality?

I would love to see someone make Tom looks like a Chinese person.

Nothing against Tom though.

[roxx]

"I would love to see someone make Tom looks like a Chinese person"

Maybe in The Last Samurai ;)

Still, it's not "mission impossible" to make an American actor look like a Greek god, especially if he is tall, dark and handsome. (Ok minus the tall, big deal!:rolleyes: )

[KayTang999]

Tall??? Dark??? He is handsome, but that two qualities??? Hmmmm.

[roxx]

I said minus the tall....and by 'dark' I meant not your typical blone hunk (a la Pitt)

He's still handsome :D
http://www.ciudadfutura.com/elcriticon/cruise2.jpg
http://bjwebb3749.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tc.jpg

I guess my 'real' problem is Farell. I just can't imagine him. But of course, in my own words, I'm willing to give him a chance.

[KayTang999]

Yeah but I guess we have to just live with Colin. But like I said, he wasn't my reason of liking the movie.

[kojs]

Arnold Schwarzenger would make a Good Alex the Great, but Alex was little smaller ad less musculaer and kind of blonde/black. Nicolas Cage would be perfect if he wasnt so bold.

[KayTang999]

Arnold? Well, Alexander is not just some senseless warrior and he is not that big of a body figure. Arnold has the face but not the body. I am not going to comment on Nic Cage.

[batfreak]

Christian Bale would be better as Alexander than Colin and Leo combined.

[kojs]

wow i, NICOLAS CAGE would make perfect role for the CAESER movie if ever came out one like that,.

[KayTang999]

Christian Bale??? I couldn't have agree more he got the face and the ability to do it.

There is Caesar on TNT soon, isn't it?

[KayTang999]

Jared Leto added to the casting!!!
Seriously, this has got to be huge casting recently since the casting of Troy!!!

[Omega Supreme]

Has this started filming yet? It was only meant to commence in July, but apprently it's got the go ahead with Farrell in the lead.

And about the whole 'Farrell doesn't look like a Greek' thing - Russell Crowe didn't exactly look like a Spaniard for Gladiator did he.

[KayTang999]

Well, the major casts are probably almost have been casted. But these guys have to go to training and stuff. Last I heard is that they are going to start filming in fall, sometime.

Up to this point, I think Colin will do just fine as Alexander.

[Harley Quinn]

Originally posted by batfreak
Christian Bale would be better as Alexander than Colin and Leo combined.

I completely agree!! Christian Bale would've been perfect, the guy has the physique and looks to pull it off. Shame he wasn't offered the role :(

[redman]

Originally posted by roxx
I said minus the tall....and by 'dark' I meant not your typical blone hunk (a la Pitt)

He's still handsome :D
http://www.ciudadfutura.com/elcriticon/cruise2.jpg
http://bjwebb3749.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tc.jpg

I guess my 'real' problem is Farell. I just can't imagine him. But of course, in my own words, I'm willing to give him a chance.

i can imagine farell being alexander, i'm just wondering which alexander the great movie is going to be better.

[Boods]

Originally posted by redman
i can imagine farell being alexander, i'm just wondering which alexander the great movie is going to be better.

yeah same ... collin farrel has angelina jolie and anthony hopkins while leonardo di caprio has nicole kidman ..
i hope they are both good

[KayTang999]

And may be Mel too. I heard Baz trying to get him to join. Aussie pack VS Irish pack.

[KayTang999]

Release date!!!

November 5th, 2004!!! There are only two movies up against this, "Sharkslayer" and "The Incredibles" both are animated!!!

[Nichol]

Here's the cast so far:

Colin Farrell is playing Alexander of Macedon, who conquerored most of the known world (including Egypt, Persia, and India) before dying in his thirties.

Anthony Hopkins is playing Ptolemy, Alexander's much older half-brother and trusted general, who eventually becomes a Pharoah of Egypt and an ancestor of the famous Cleopatra of Caesar and Mark Antony fame.

Jared Leto is playing Hephaestion, Alexander's vizier and lover, who's early death crushes the conqueror.

Rosario Dawson is playing Roxanne, Alexander's beautiful and fierce first wife.

Angelina Jolie is playing Olympias, Alexander's insane and ambitious mother. She'll be seen mostly in childhood flashbacks so the age difference is so problem.

Brian Blessed has also been cast, though his character is unknown. He might be playing Philip (Alexander's father), Parmenion (a general who is murdered by Alexander) or possibly Antipater (Cassander's father).

Jonathan Rhys-Meyers is playing Cassander, Alexander's childhood companion turned nemesis.

Yet to be cast are Philip (unless Blessed is playing him); Stateira, Alexander's second wife; Darius, Shah of Persia; Bagaos, Alexander's other male lover; and Barsine, Alexander's concubine.

And yes, JRM is yummy. Actually almost all the men in this movie are yummy -- yay!

[KayTang999]

Good work Nichol!!! I was only thinking about Philip. Agree about JRM, hence my av, LOL. That why I was thinking that the cast could be even bigger than what it is now since the casting is not even done.

[lemeri]

that is interesting

[mister_satan666]

Leo is too short and dorky to play ATG

ATG is the greatest man that ever lived


only him and Ron Halford have been super cool while being gay
lol

[KayTang999]

But isn't ATG short? Dorky no but I think he is short.

[necronon99]

sounds cool
stone will weird up the party for sure
im interested

[KayTang999]

What do you mean weird up the party?

[Raiden]

I'd rather pick Colin Farrell over Leo DiCaprio for the role of Alexander the Great, since the former is a way better than the latter one. IMO, of course. However, Nicole Kidman can help make a film better so we'll just have to see.

[KayTang999]

Val Kilmer as King Phillip? Ok, I don't see anything remote alike between him and Colin. This is a really interesting casting!

[Chamberlain]

Anyone know who will be playing Perdiccus in the Alexander film??

[Nichol]

Yep, it looks like Val Kilmer will be playing King Philip, Alexander and Ptolemy's daddy. No word yet on who will be playing the young Ptolemy -- it seems the movie will be told in flashback by Anthony Hopkins as the older Ptolemy, relating the events of Alexander's conquest, so a younger actor has to be cast as the younger Ptolemy.

Val Kilmer and Angelina Jolie as Colin Farrell's parents. Hmm. On the other hand, Olympias used to claim that Alexander was actually fathered by Zeus, so who knows!

More thoughts -- Val Kilmer is forty-four, about ten years younger than Philip was when he died.

Jared Leto is thirty-two, almost exactly the same age as Hephaestion on his death. He's older than Farrell but most historians believe Hephaestion was older than Alexander so it works out.

Colin Farrell is twenty-seven, a few years younger than Alexander upon his own death.

Angelina Jolie is twenty-eight, only a year (!) older than the actor playing her son, but she'll be seen in childhood flashbacks so it won't matter.

Jonathan Rhys-Meyers is twenty-six, a year younger than Farrell.

Perdiccas hasn't been cast yet. He's the same age as Alexander and Cassander, so it'll be another young actor. Another thought: perhaps Brian Blessed is playing Aristotle? He's about the right age and of course there'll be a scene with young Alexander and his famous tutor. Perhaps Alex and Hephaestion will be passing love notes in class while Aristotle drones on about some perfectly boring subject.... ;)

[KayTang999]

By the time the casting is done for this movie, I probably over joy so much that I would be speechless!!!

[Neverending]

Baz may add more style to his Alexander the Great film, but I think Oliver Stone's film will have more of an epic feel to it. Remind you this is the same person who wrote the screenplay for Conan the Barbarian.

[lotrfreak]

i think colin will be justbrilliant in this role
he's the best choice
oh and to mister_satan666 just wanted to tell you that leo is 6'1, whereas colin farrell is only 5'9 or so, so leo is quite a bit taller then colin

[KayTang999]

But ATG wasn't a tall man anyway, was he?

[The Moose]

i am thinking that the better one will be Stone's one. better director, and Farrell will be rally good

[CrazyMoo19]

My favorite part about any history class is talking about Alexander the Great!!! So any film about him I'll probably see. But I'm much more excited about Stone's film....I haven't seen many of his movies, but he has a strong cast lined up that will no doubt deliver. Film Oliver Film!!!

[KayTang999]

I am taking Western Civilization class right now and we are talking about Hellenistic Period at the moment.

[lotrfreak]

the only bad thing bout this movie so far was the fact that colin just missed out on his son's birth because he was filming :( sad

[The Moose]

that's a bit of a bugga for him. he may regreat that for the rest of his life, but that shows some dedication to what he is doing

[dr_evil]

Originally posted by The Moose
that's a bit of a bugga for him. he may regreat that for the rest of his life, but that shows some dedication to what he is doing

well it is sad but at least he will probally have another one
unless he gets snipped or only dates models that have gotten there tubes tied or something:p

[KayTang999]

I still think the first one is more special, any first is always special!

[The Moose]

i agree with the points that both of you are making

[lotrfreak]

yeah it's sad, but, hey, life goes on right?

[mister_satan666]

whatever....but Leo cant be 6 feet..he looks so short and girly

[KayTang999]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
yeah it's sad, but, hey, life goes on right?

TOTALLY!!! That probably why they didn't name the kid yet.

[CrazyMoo19]

Yeah, such is life! But I guess this example of dedication shows how much faith he has in the project.....which is good cause you would hate to think he would miss the birth of his child for no good reason! Ah, the Irish.....gotta love em!!!

[Faithless Eye]

Go Stone, kick Baz's ass.

[lotrfreak]

yeah the irish ROCK!
oh and mister satan goy, yeah i know he looks short and wussy, but he is quite tall

[lotrfreak]

goy?!! i mean guy!

[Nichol]

There's been another addition to the cast: Scots actor Rory McCann, who has been added as the "right-hand man" of Alexander. Exactly who this character is can be debated. Possibly the younger Ptolemy, Craterus (a rival of Hephastion), or even Bagoas?

I hope it's Craterus just so we get to see McCann and Leto get into a catfight half-way through the movie so Farrell can drag them apart. :D

Oh, btw, word is that Kim and Colin are waiting for him to return before naming the baby.

[Nichol]

UPDATE: According to his resume (http://www.hamiltonhodell.co.uk/CHRIS/macc_pc.html), Rory McCann is playing Crateros. Perhaps we'll get that catfight after all. ;)

This brings the current cast to:

Alexander: Colin Farrell

Hephastion: Jared Leto

Ptolemy: Anthony Hopkins

King Philip: Val Kilmer

Olympias: Angelina Jolie

Cassander: Jonathan Rhys-Meyers

Roxanne: Rosario Dawson

Crateros: Rory McCann

Principle photography began on Monday, Sep. 22, in Morocco, filming the Battle of Gaugamela.

[CrazyMoo19]

Sounds absolutely awesome! Yeah, I'm all about some guy-on-guy catfight action!! But who is Rory McCann??? I hope there will be some sweet fighting between Colin Farrell and Jonathan Rhys Meyers as well.......since they play enemies and all!!!

[KayTang999]

Well would that be interesting!!! Two Irish boys going at each other!!! I can't wait to see the first picture of this production!!!

[Nichol]

MORE CASTING: Irish actor Ian Beattie (you can see his CV here (http://www.actorsireland.com/)) has also been cast in "Alexander", but I don't know in which part.

[KayTang999]

Wow, a lot of Irish actors in this movie. Two of whom are my favorites.

[CrazyMoo19]

Oh yeah......the Emerald Isle seems to be a breeding ground for the beautiful. I think this version of "Alexander" is giving "Troy" a run for its hottie factor!!!!

[KayTang999]

Between Colin, Jared, Val, and Jonathan VS Brad, Orlando, Eric, and Sean; I go for Alexander boys!!!

[CrazyMoo19]

I couldn't agree with you more!!!! Damn, why does Nov. 2004 have to be sssssssssssssoooooooooooo far away. I just hope TROY is good enough to satisify my need for a grand, historic epic....that just happens to have a beautiful cast along with it!

[vlarsony]

Leo is in fact 6' and definitely not scrawny either. Didn't anyone see Gangs of NY? Colin Farrell is 5'7" if he's lucky and looks like a little monkey. As for that Rys Myers dude ... I've NEVER in my life seen anyone look quite so blatantly GAY. He'll fit in well with the rest of Stone's self-proclaimed "Adam's Family". This film is going to suck. They couldn't even get a major studio to back it and had to resort to begging a grant from the French government. Intermedia is going belly up when this stinker washes ashore. I'm waiting for Baz Luhrmann's Alexander which will be the film of 2005 and has a real star in the lead role instead of a short-legged little orangutan who has to dye his hair blonde to vainly try and look like ATG.

[KayTang999]

Ummm the movie of 2005 is the last SW in case you didn't know. Probably King Kong too!!!

Rhys Meyers is not gay, but he can make gays run for their money!!! Just because he is beautiful doesn't make him gay. Baz is great but can he makes a war movie??? Not from his previous works!!! But Stone can!!! Ever heard of "Platoon"!!! If you have negative vibe about this then why you even bother coming in???

[CrazyMoo19]

As for that Rys Myers dude ... I've NEVER in my life seen anyone look quite so blatantly GAY.

OK......that's cool if you prefer Baz's "Alexander" and find Stone's to be a one-way ticket to a great Hollywood mess. If you think Leonardo will make a better Alexander The Great, that's your opinion and everyone is here to share their feelings. But cut the crap of insulting an actor who is obviously, especially in this thread, greatly appreciated by not only the other members but the creator of this thread. I'm not going into any bashing because you are entitled to your own opinion and I just hate seeing stuff like that on this message board. I just ask that you respect other peoples' opinions and not bash an actor who's work you no nothing of. Leonardo DiCaprio is an amazing actor, and if you like his work you should check out some of Jonathan Rhys Meyers' work as well, especially "Velvet Goldmine" and "Titus." Jonathan was actually suspose to be in "Gangs of New York," but was unfortunely preoccupied to take the role. So it's fate.........just jump the gun and rent "Velvet Goldmine," then we'll talk about being blatantly gay.

[KayTang999]

Thank you so much CrazyMoo19!!!

[vlarsony]

Guess I got sick of reading stupid comments like "Leo is a wuss" and Leo is a short little guy from people here who don't have any idea what they're talking about. It's bad enough to bash a guy because he doesn't somehow fit your idea of conventional 21st century cinema "tough guy" without re-inventing his physical statistics. Leo is tall and slim but has put on muscle weight before for a role which was obvious in Gangs. He'd stand head and shoulders over Colin who is in fact a small fellow. I actually have nothing against Colin who is a decent enough actor though I don't think he's worthy of the hype around him right now. I try not to allow the fact that he has zero class influence my assessment of his ability to perform. I also don't see anything beautiful about Rhys Meyers. When I think beautiful I think someone like DiCaprio who will make a perfect Alexander if in fact Luhrmann's film actually gets made. I believe DiCaprio has final script approval before committing and Hare's script isn't finished yet. Maybe I'll rent Velvet Goldmine since someone on another board also recommended it to me. Christian Bale is in it I believe and he's a very good actor.

[KayTang999]

Ok so you like Leo, and that is fine. Here is the link to Baz version of ATG. You will like it much better than here.

http://www.comingsoon.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9569

[Nichol]

CASTING UPDATE: According to Hollywood Reporter (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/people/casting_call.jsp):

Elliot Cowan has been cast as the young Ptolemy in Oliver Stone's "Alexander the Great." The senior Ptolemy will be played by Anthony Hopkins.

Elliot Cowan (http://us.imdb.com/name/nm1259002/) and Hopkins are playing the same character at different stages of his life -- Cowan in youth, Hopkins in old age. Ptolemy is Alexander's illegitimate half-brother who becomes one of his generals and eventually the pharoah of Egypt. Ptolemy would become an ancestor of the famous Cleopatra of Caesar and Mark Antony fame.

Still can't find who Ian Beattie and Brian Blessed are supposedly to be playing. There are several roles that haven't been cast -- Parmenion and his son Cleitus, King Darius of Persia, and Bagoas. Filmjerk (http://www.filmjerk.com/nuke/article482.html) had a casting call for Bagoas that described him as being:

Young, dark, effeminate, beautiful. A Persian eunuch, he is the former lover of the Emperor Darius, Alexander inherits him when he conquers Darius and the Persian empire. He becomes Alexander’s servant and one of his lovers. Ever a servant, he must quietly swallow his jealousy over Alexander’s paramount affection for Hephaistion.

[CrazyMoo19]

WOW!!! You are just all over the casting news!! Excellent job! I don't know how you do it but everytime I check back here you've replied with some more news. Just wanted to say thanks for being so up-to-date and on top of the casting info!!!

[CrazyMoo19]

Originally posted by KayTang999
Thank you so much CrazyMoo19!!!

No problem :)

[CrazyMoo19]

Originally posted by vlarsony
Maybe I'll rent Velvet Goldmine since someone on another board also recommended it to me. Christian Bale is in it I believe and he's a very good actor.

Yes, Christian Bale's performance is stunning!! He is a wonderfully talented actor who deserves all the recognition he gets. If you like Christian Bale's work, "Velvet Goldmine" won't disappoint you in the least.

[KayTang999]

Nichol, recommend us the site where you get all this amazing info please!!! These are great!!!

[vlarsony]

According to Luhrmann, he intends to make a film in the vein of "classical epics like David Lean's Lawrence of Arabia." He has no intention of making a musical ATG. He'll also have the benefit of input from collaborators Martin Scorsese and Steven Spielberg. The new issue of Empire magazine will feature an article where both Luhrmann and Stone talk about their respective films. I'm a lot more excited about Baz's film with DiCaprio in the lead role. I can't picture Farrell as Alexander, even with bleached blonde hair.

[CrazyMoo19]

I have to admit seeing the blonde hair took me back a bit. I didn't know if it was for kicks or for the film??? Oh Lord, does the hair color really matter......let him keep the beautiful brown hair!!!! Oh well, I'm sure it'll grow on me.....I didn't really dig Orlando's pirate hair, but seeing the film made that feeling disappear rather quickly!!! I'm no historian, but Alexander's life just interests me....so I'll probably see both films no matter if they are different or not.

[vlarsony]

I believe Colin's dye job was for the film. I guess the hair color and look isn't as important as the acting and the script, but I do picture Alexander as a blue-eyed blonde since I read the Manfredi novels and that's how he's described. Leo is an excellent physical match for Manfredi's Alexander ... except for the height. Alexander was supposed to be a small guy and Leo is on the tall side. If Alexander's life interests you then you should read the Manfredi trilogy - Child of a Dream, Sands of Ammon, and Ends of the Earth ... I bought them at Amazon a few months ago and I couldn't put them down. Dino de Laurentiis has the rights to the novels and they'll be used for Luhrmann's movie.

[KayTang999]

I don't care who is going to be Alexander. But I have the perspective of the previous works from actors and filmakers.

Let start with actors, Colin and Leo. They both are great actors but for this role, I think that Colin is a stronger actor who would be able to crack the role better than Leo. Forget about height, hair color, or any others physical aspect, just talk about body of work. I am not even talk about how good their movies were I am only souly talking about their talent. The only movie that I have seen Leo as a strong actor is Gangs of New York. Where as Colin, who was in Tigerland, The Recruit, and S.W.A.T. has more experience in this type of role. I am not saying that Alexander has to be played by action movie star but it require more dept than just a surface factors. He was great in Minority Report and Phone Booth. The last time I saw the best of Leo was in What Eating Gilbert Grape and that was along time ago.

Physical, well I think Leo is too Americanize to be Greek but then any make up artist can change that. This is also why I don't care about the physical appearances. This also go with Colin.

Directors: Stone and Lurman. Well Stone we know he can do it because of all his previous so I am not going to repeat myself again about "Platoon" but the only violent piece I see from Baz is Romeo + Juliet and it was not warlike violent it was just a shoot out. Did you know that Alexander didn't use gun to conquer the world??? Anyway, but Baz has the more artistic touch so that is what I am looking forward to in Baz's version.

I am most definately will watch both. They both will be great but the degree of likeness for me has to go to Stone on this one. Alexander's life is legend, history, and real. I want thing that is realistic not artistically brush up. But I wouldn't mind get entertained by it.

[vlarsony]

As far as I'm concerned, Colin has little depth and no versatility. He always plays the same character - the man in uniform. And I don't think that adequately prepares him for the role of Alexander because Alexander was so much more than that. Maybe he'll be ok, but I have a lot more faith in Leo to pull off such a larger than life character. If you don't think Leo was incredible in many films since Gilbert Grape such as Basketball Diaries, Baz's R & J, and Catch Me If You Can, then there's no convincing you, but in terms of the depth he can bring to his characters, Leo is far better than Colin. Physically, I think Leo is an absolute chameleon who never looks the same in any of his films. I also think he has a distinctly Mediterranean flavor to his features and even his body language. In fact, he looked very much an Italian when he picked up his Rudolf Valentino award in Rome last year. He favors his father's side of the family more and more as he gets older. Sorry, Colin just looks like a modern Irishman to me and definitely not the stuff of an ancient Greek conqueror.

I haven't liked an Oliver Stone film since Born on the 4th of July. JKK was long and boring and I loathed Natural Born Killers which was completely putrid. I'm not really all that fond of Luhrmann's previous films either, mostly because I hate musicals. I only liked his R & J because Leo and Claire were so good in it. But Baz is extremely imaginative and I really love his camera work. I'm betting he can make something spectacular happen by working in the epic genre and it's comforting to me to know that he'll have input from two legendary directors - Scorsese and Spielberg.

Re Stone's movie - I also think the rest of his cast is cheesy. He himself refers to them as his "Adam's Family" and I couldn't agree more. The trouble is, I don't want to see Alexander or his life presented as some kind of freak show ala Natural Born Killers. If that's what Stone is preparing to dish up then I have no appetite for it.

[CrazyMoo19]

Originally posted by vlarsony
If Alexander's life interests you then you should read the Manfredi trilogy - Child of a Dream, Sands of Ammon, and Ends of the Earth ... I bought them at Amazon a few months ago and I couldn't put them down.

Thank you very much for the recommendation. I smell the beginnings of a Christmas List!!!!

[CrazyMoo19]

Originally posted by KayTang999
I am taking Western Civilization class right now and we are talking about Hellenistic Period at the moment.

I realize that this quote is from ages ago, but I was just curious to see where you were in the class??? I took mine during summer school....so everything, except the Alexander parts that is, was just a big blur. I don't know what it is about his life that interests me so much, but it just does!!! Anyone else have any opinions on why Alexander is so interesting??????

[KayTang999]

Because he almost has the control of the whole world. But I am thinking about if it was him or his army but then good army must to have good leader so it probably both.

[CrazyMoo19]

Exactly.....I think that's it in a nutshell!!!

[KayTang999]

Because his father's army was so strong and had the technology that other armies didn't have. That why I was thinking that may be because of that Alexander was able to gain a lot of territories back then. But then you have to have a good leader, so you can't really discredited him.

[CrazyMoo19]

Oh yeah........word to those mad leadership skills!!! Another aspect that made me really love Alexander's story is that he was really one with his army. Sure he pushed them to the limits, and sometimes a little too far, but he took their lives in consideration all the time. People weren't just a random face or number in his army; major people person.

[KayTang999]

His army was so exhausted that they couldn't make it deeper into India so they have to go back. He took care of his people well but he grinded them to the limit.

[CrazyMoo19]

That's very true about India!! So is it just me, or has this thread totally gone History Channel???? Not that I don't enjoy it, cause I love Alexander. I think every person has at least one historical figure that they adore and can't get enough. Of course, some are not as lucky to get a Hollywood motion picture about them.......that just happens to have some serious talent behind it.

[Chamberlain]

Web sites etc. are really good places to get info, but what you really need is inside gossip.......like say from a family member who is currently filming out in Morocco!?!?!?!

[Nichol]

No new casting news (*sob*) but I did check the Showfax (http://www.showfax.com/role_selection.cfm?l=2&t=3&p=68596) casting page for "Alexander", which lists the following roles:

Alexander Age 12-14
Alexander Age 7
Bagoas
Cleitus
Coenus
Hephaistion
Parmenion
Prince Pharnakes
Roxane
Young Ptolemy

Roxane, both Ptolemies, and Hephaistion have been cast; the rest are so far unfilled. This gives us a general idea of what happens in the story -- Parmenion is involved, as is Bagoas, and Pharnakes (a brother-in-law of Darius). There are childhood scenes for seven-year-old and early teen Alexander, and Colin Farrell has mentioned in an interview that in his only scene with Angelina Jolie he'll be playing 17-year-old Alexander.

There are a number of characters who either have no casting calls or have not been mentioned at all in relation to this movie -- Darius, Antipater, Stateira, Aristotle. There's Parmenion but no Philotas. Most perplexing.

[CrazyMoo19]

Originally posted by Chamberlain
Web sites etc. are really good places to get info, but what you really need is inside gossip.......like say from a family member who is currently filming out in Morocco!?!?!?!

Are you trying to imply that you have a family member in Morocco right now.............cause that would be AWESOME!!!!!!

[CrazyMoo19]

Originally posted by Nichol
There are a number of characters who either have no casting calls or have not been mentioned at all in relation to this movie -- Darius, Antipater, Stateira, Aristotle. There's Parmenion but no Philotas. Most perplexing.

Excellent work Nichol......most informative even with the lack of info!!! But what is perplexing exactly......neither names ring a bell???????

[KayTang999]

Chamberlain, good point!!! But so far we are relying on the internet spy!!!

Nichol, what can I say, you are pure genious!!!

CrazyMoo19, I admire Alexander immensely!!!

[Nichol]

Yes, we seriously need a spy on-set or something. That would be great! Hey, if any "Alexander" actors happen to be browsing this forum -- mind giving us the lowdown? Pretty pretty please? With sugar and cherries on top?

CrazyMoo19: But what is perplexing exactly......neither names ring a bell???????

Parmenion certainly rings a bell -- he, along with his son-in-law Philotas, were executed by Alexander for plotting treason. It's odd that Parmenion has a casting call but his partner in crime, Philotas, doesn't. That's what I found perplexing.

Maybe the filmmakers decided that Jonathan Rhys-Meyers set too high a standard for vaguely-evil-but-so-devishly-handsome-and-charming-that-you-love-him-anyway traitors and cut Philotas out of the script!

[KayTang999]

LOL!!! But Jonathan's evilness is inkling in the begining. Full- capacity of his evilness should be at the end unless Stone is doing something different that we don't know. But I think one hot evil is more than enough, specially if it was by Jonathan.

Or may be they alreaedy casted that part and that might be why it is not on the casting call, who knows.

[CrazyMoo19]

Thank you very much Nichol........I guess my history teacher 86ed their whole story with Alexander?????

I can't remember when I was so excited about an evil character??? I think Jonathan is enough evil-doer-you-just-can't-resist for one epic film. I was also wondering if Stone will go much into life after Alexander.......when JRM's character goes from bad to worse. Oh naughty Jonny!!!

[KayTang999]

But Cassander has a really good life after Alexander's death. Beside, he died normally as far as I know.

[Nichol]

Originally posted by KayTang999
But Cassander has a really good life after Alexander's death. Beside, he died normally as far as I know.

Oh he had it good, but he was a pretty evil fellow. Don't read below if you don't want to know Cassander's doings post-Alexander!

Cassander (Greek "Kassandros") took over Macedon after Alexander's death. Olympias fought against him and killed Arridaios, the "king" of Macedon, Alexander's illegitimate and retarded half-brother, his queen, and Cassander's brother Nikanor. He then captured her and had her stoned to death. Then Cassander poisoned Roxane and her son by Alexander and bribed Polyperchon to poison Herakles, Alexander the Great's illegitimate son. With both of Alexander's children out of the way, he ruled Macedon with little trouble and married one of Alexander's half-sisters, Thessalonike. Pausanias sums up his career pretty neatly, I think:

"Kassandros was mainly influenced by hatred of Alexander. He destroyed the whole house of Alexander to the bitter end. Olympias he threw to the exasperated Macedonians to be stoned to death; and the sons of Alexander, Herakles by Barsine and Alexander by Roxane, he killed by poison. But he himself was not to come to a good end. He was filled with dropsy, and from the dropsy came worms while he was yet alive. Philippos, the eldest of his sons, shortly after coming to the throne was seized by a wasting disease which proved fatal. Antipatros, the next son, murdered his mother Thessalonike, the daughter of Philip, son of Amyntas, and of Nikasipolis, charging her with being too fond of Alexandros, who was the youngest of Kassandros' sons. Getting the support of Demetrius, the son of Antigonus, he deposed with his help and punished his brother Antipatros. However, it appeared that in Demetrius he found a murderer and not an ally. So some god was to exact from Kassandros a just requital." -- Pausanias 9.7.1. (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Paus%2e+9%2e7%2e2)

Yikes. So after Cassander died in 297, his eldest son died of some wasting disease, the second son murdered his mother, and the third son murdered the second and was murdered in turn by his ally! :eek: The whole thing reads like a Greek tragedy, as though the gods had sent the Furies to destroy the entire family.

[Chamberlain]

I certainly do have a relative filming in Morocco......haven't heard too much about this yet but to inform you he is not an extra....

will contact him soon, and will ask how much info I can give out....watch this space for details!!!!

[KayTang999]

Nichol, great job!!! Yeah, it is karma. But he had it good for quiet sometime and I don't think we will get to see that at all though.

Chamberlain, you are so rocks!!!

[Nichol]

Oooh, something fun: here's the transcription of a scene between Alexander and Hephaistion. This scene was used during the audition process, so it'll probably be modified somewhat between now and the finished version in theaters, but this'll give you an idea of what their relationship will be like in the movie.

WARNING! DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED (just a little) FOR THE ALEXANDER MOVIE

....

....

SCENE I.

H: -- Will it ever be enough, Alexander? Even if you found the 'End of the World,' how would you turn back?

A (acknowledging) : I'd weep if there were no more worlds to conquer. (looks warmly at Hephaistion) Our fates are intertwined. They always were, Hephaistion, you know that. (Hephaistion nods, then) -- I've missed you...

H: -- And I you... but for the boy--

A: I know. But now I am the older one.

H: (sad) -- You still hold your head cocked, you know, like that...

A: (insisting) I stopped that. (he hasn't)

H: No -- like a deer, listening in the wind. You still have that look. You strike me still, Alexander. You have eyes like no other... (embarrassed) I sound stupid, like a schoolboy -- but you are everything I care for.

He approaches Alexander tentatively, and with his permission, draws him into an embrace.

H: ...and, by Aphrodite, I'm so jealous of losing you to this 'world' you want so badly.

A: You'll never lose me, Hephaistion. You'll always be my Patroclus.

SCENE II.

A: -- Have I become arrogant, Hephaistion?

H: (gently) ...Sometimes to expect the best of everyone *is* arrogance, Alexander.

A: Then Cleitus spoke true -- I am become a tyrant.

H: No, but perhaps a stranger -- they don't understand you any more.

A: (nauseous) I've *failed*...!

H: No, you're human -- (it rests) -- and they know it, Alexander, and they forgive you.

But Alexander continues to writhe in his private agony.

A: ...I saw myself that night.

H: How so?

A: (pause) I saw my father... It wasn't Zeus, it was *me*... (then) ...it wasn't drink that made me kill Cleitus -- (pause) -- it was because *I wanted to*.

It bewilders him, and he throws his arm over his eyes. Distant sounds of the past begin seeping up.

A: (muttering) We were close, so close, Hephaistion.

H: ...there'll be other dreams.

A: ...not like this... (remembering) Time is a delicate robber, is she not? When we least expect her?

H: ...you outdid Achilles.

A: (weary) -- and then? (pause) Ours is a myth only the young believe.

H: -- But how beautiful a myth it was!

A: (muttered) -- We reach, we fall...

H: (proudly) ...They all did, Alexander -- Herakles, Prometheus -- and Achilles, in whose company you now stand and shine!

Alexander's eyes brim with tears.

A: (repeats, convinced) -- We reach, we fall...

...
...

Thanks to karen from the Pothos board (http://www.pothos.org/forum/showmessage.asp?messageID=8656).

[KayTang999]

BRAVO!!! Great job Nichol!!!

That is really interesting, they seems really close!!!

[The Moose]

cool. sounds good, i like it a lot

[Nichol]

Glad y'all liked it! And I just got word from a fellow actor who knows Ian Beattie (they have the same agent) and he says...

Ian Beattie is playing Antigonus, one of Alexander's most ruthless generals. He was called "Monophthalmos" because he only had one eye and after Alexander's death he almost took over the entire empire. Cassander, Ptolemy, Seleukos, and Lysimachos opposed him but even their combined might couldn't defeat him for four years. In 301 he was finally killed in battle when Seleukos and Lysimachos teamed up against him.

[KayTang999]

So there is someone who is more evil than Cassander. Oh I was thinking I think Jonathan didn't have to audition for the role of Cassander because when Oliver was scouting location in Thailand, Jonathan was making a movie there and I think they meet so Oliver offered the role to him. May be he was already have Jonathan in mind. So he got casted into the movie without having to audition for it. I think, I am not sure and I could be wrong.

[CrazyMoo19]

Dang, all this news is so exciting!!!! Great job peoples!!!!

KeyTang999: I had no idea how Jonathan got involved, but that sounds 10 shades of interesting....who wouldn't have JRM in mind for any role!!!!

Nichol: You never fail to impress me with your knowledge and thorough information on all things ATG.....like that whole scene, that just sounds too SWEET!!!

Chamberlain: WOW........all I can say is WOW! A friend who is filming in Morocco and is not an extra......I know I can't wait to hear about this!!!!

[KayTang999]

And the wish come true!!! Here are some pic of Colin from the set of Alexander!!!

http://www.thezreview.co.uk/news/news1833.htm

[CrazyMoo19]

Those are amazing!!! Who was that guy with Colin??? This site said it was Eric Bana, but I didn't think he was in this project???? Why does it have to be Nov. 2004........I realize this film is just getting underway, but it's just the wait. Oh the agony!!!!!

[southern]

not bad at all:D

[KayTang999]

I don't think that is Eric either, I think that guy is the horsemaster.

[AnGeL's_BaBe03]

I thought they asked Brad Pitt to do it and he refused because he had to to a gay sex seen or something like that

[KayTang999]

Not just Brad, so did Heath Ledger and Tom Cruise. They refused to do it because of the same reason.

[lotrfreak]

actually, brad was really interested in taking the role, but jennifer told him not to, because she didnt want his reputation to somehow become damaged because of it, and brad being the loving husband, listened to her
stupid woman

[KayTang999]

But he got to be the person that Alexander virtued most, Achilles!!!

[CrazyMoo19]

So I guess it all works out for everyone in the end..........Brad got TROY and Colin has ALEXANDER.

[KayTang999]

Yeah but now we have to see which is better.

[CrazyMoo19]

I couldn't agree with you more!! I have high hopes for both!!!

[CrazyMoo19]

Originally posted by KayTang999
Not just Brad, so did Heath Ledger and Tom Cruise. They refused to do it because of the same reason.

Ok........I'm so happy Colin Farrell is doing the project, but how insecure does one man have to be. WOW, I really wouldn't expect such a response from Heath Ledger! But I'm quite happy with the actors in this project, so screw those "guy's guy" types who have to go to such extemes to prove their masculinity.

[KayTang999]

He was the one who was going to do it, Heath, he has been attached to the project for quite sometime.

[DolAmroth]

I dont know much about Alexander the great, but like how big were the battles he fought in. I would think they were huge.

[KayTang999]

Let just say he only lost 110 of his people when he killed total of about 50,000 soldiers of one army. This is just one battle.

[The Moose]

yeah, that is cool. one of the reasons why i like alexander

[CrazyMoo19]

Originally posted by KayTang999
Let just say he only lost 110 of his people when he killed total of about 50,000 soldiers of one army. This is just one battle.

Yep, he was a badass :)

[CrazyMoo19]

What direction to you think they'll take the film in??? Like a timeline of events they'll cover??? I know we have discussed before that they probably won't be going much beyond Alexander's death....but there is so much that takes place LONG before he dies????? I'm having trouble remembering some of the most memorable battles????

[DolAmroth]

How could he be in a battle and loose just over a hundred men and kill 50,000 enimes thats impossible was he like atop a strong hold like Helms Deep or something.

[Nichol]

You're probably thinking of the Battle of Granicus. Alexander marched on the Granicus river with 32,000 infantry and 5,100 cavalry. His Persian foes had 10,000 cavalry and 5,000 infantry. Of this, about 4,000 were killed while Alexander lost about a hundred.

This was one of his earliest and most perilous battles -- Alexander himself was almost killed -- and his first great victory in Asia. He won due to a combination of strong leadership (the Persian generals were so busy squabbling amongst themselves they didn't bother to work out a battle plan) and a feint attack that took his enemies by surprise.

From what I've read on the movie, Morocco will be standing in for Persia and Thailand will be standing in for India, where he had another great battle against a seven-foot-tall elephant-riding Indian king!

By the way, y'all, there's a new "Alexander" messageboard at Alexander: Rumor Control (http://www.alexander-rc.com/)!

[KayTang999]

Nichol, what are you doing??? You got all this great sources!!! Are you like spy???

[Nichol]

Another excerpt from the screenplay, this time for Ptolemy (Elliot Cowan) and Alexander (Colin Farrell). Since this is copyrighted material, I'll only snatch a few lines:

A: 'Home'...? Where's your 'home', Ptolemy?

P: (reflecting) More and more I think of it as Egypt. Thais has grown fond of Alexandria.

A: Women bring men 'home'. I have no such feeling.

P: You have Babylon, Alexander.

A: Yes, I have Babylon.

P:.... where your mother awaits your invitation.

You can see the rest of this as a PDF here (http://www.fast-lane-productions.com/alex_yptolemy.pdf).

Some explanations: The "Thais" Ptolemy speaks of is his wife, the same girl who cajoled a drunk Alexander into burning the royal palace of Persepolis. She was an Athenian and wanted revenge against the Persians for having burned Athens to the ground during the invasion of Xerxes. When Alexander realized what he had done, he wept at the steps of the palace. Ptolemy would of course later become king of Egypt with Thais as his queen. The "Alexandria" he spoke of was the new city in Egypt that Alexander named after himself.

Babylon was the richest city in the world and it became Alexander's capitol after he captured it. After his Indian campaign ended he returned to Babylon, where he died in 323 B.C.E.

[Tenaciousd1212]

I wanna see Jason alexander in this or i want a refund for time wasted...

[KayTang999]

Originally posted by Nichol
Another excerpt from the screenplay, this time for Ptolemy (Elliot Cowan) and Alexander (Colin Farrell). Since this is copyrighted material, I'll only snatch a few lines:

A: 'Home'...? Where's your 'home', Ptolemy?

P: (reflecting) More and more I think of it as Egypt. Thais has grown fond of Alexandria.

A: Women bring men 'home'. I have no such feeling.

P: You have Babylon, Alexander.

A: Yes, I have Babylon.

P:.... where your mother awaits your invitation.

You can see the rest of this as a PDF here (http://www.fast-lane-productions.com/alex_yptolemy.pdf).

Some explanations: The "Thais" Ptolemy speaks of is his wife, the same girl who cajoled a drunk Alexander into burning the royal palace of Persepolis. She was an Athenian and wanted revenge against the Persians for having burned Athens to the ground during the invasion of Xerxes. When Alexander realized what he had done, he wept at the steps of the palace. Ptolemy would of course later become king of Egypt with Thais as his queen. The "Alexandria" he spoke of was the new city in Egypt that Alexander named after himself.

Babylon was the richest city in the world and it became Alexander's capitol after he captured it. After his Indian campaign ended he returned to Babylon, where he died in 323 B.C.E.

Nichol, you sould like a historian or history major, cool!!! I love history.

[lotrfreak]

wow!! nichol, your cool!! please give us more info if you can! you da man!!

[Tenaciousd1212]

Originally posted by Nichol
Another excerpt from the screenplay, this time for Ptolemy (Elliot Cowan) and Alexander (Colin Farrell). Since this is copyrighted material, I'll only snatch a few lines:

A: 'Home'...? Where's your 'home', Ptolemy?

P: (reflecting) More and more I think of it as Egypt. Thais has grown fond of Alexandria.

A: Women bring men 'home'. I have no such feeling.

P: You have Babylon, Alexander.

A: Yes, I have Babylon.

P:.... where your mother awaits your invitation.

You can see the rest of this as a PDF here (http://www.fast-lane-productions.com/alex_yptolemy.pdf).

Some explanations: The "Thais" Ptolemy speaks of is his wife, the same girl who cajoled a drunk Alexander into burning the royal palace of Persepolis. She was an Athenian and wanted revenge against the Persians for having burned Athens to the ground during the invasion of Xerxes. When Alexander realized what he had done, he wept at the steps of the palace. Ptolemy would of course later become king of Egypt with Thais as his queen. The "Alexandria" he spoke of was the new city in Egypt that Alexander named after himself.

Babylon was the richest city in the world and it became Alexander's capitol after he captured it. After his Indian campaign ended he returned to Babylon, where he died in 323 B.C.E.

That sounds like what a doppelganger would say...

[KayTang999]

Are you questioning my friends' sources?

[Nichol]

No new casting news but an article that did make me smile -- 'Alexander the Great' charms Morocco (http://www.hellomagazine.com/film/2003/10/07/colinfarrell/):

Princess Lalla Hasna - the sister of the Moroccan king - met Alexander the Great at the weekend, when a troupe of Hollywood heavyweights turned out for the Marrakech film festival. The cast of Oliver Stone's film about the Macedonian king, which is currently filming in Morocco, came along for the event. And the princess seemed charmed by Irishman Colin Farrell, who is playing the title role.

Includes cute picture of Farrell snuggling with the princess. But what I wanna know is -- who is that tall dark man gropping Colin in the second photo!

Tenaciousd1212 -- May I beg your pardon? I don't quite understand what you're saying.

[lotrfreak]

aww, that is a really cute pic of colin and the princess...but he looks odd with blond hair. Still looks luuuuuuurvly though.
The mysterious tall dark man is Gary Stretch, who has been in two movies:Good Night To Die (2003) and
Business for Pleasure (1996)
i havent heard of em either

[Tenaciousd1212]

Oh you know. Doppelgangers. They're invading, anyone can be one. You can't be too sure...

[The Moose]

Doppelgangers means 2 gangs, i think. german.

[lemeri]

Doppelganger the movie was horrible.

[Nichol]

Tenaciousd1212 -- Yes, I know what a doppelganger is, but why would you think I was one? I'm quite insulted.

The Moose -- Close! Doppelgänger is German for "double walker", and it means something like "evil twin" or "alter ego".

[Lachesis]

Originally posted by Tenaciousd1212
Oh you know. Doppelgangers. They're invading, anyone can be one. You can't be too sure...

You many be thinking of the Pod People. Possibly the Body Snatchers. Definitely not dopplegangers.

[Nichol]

CASTING UPDATE: According to the French magazine "Studio", actress Jeanne Moreau (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0603402/) has joined the cast of "Alexander". No word on who's she playing, but considering her age (she was born in 1928) it's a safe bet she's playing Sisygambis, the mother of Alexander's enemy King Darius of Persia.

She, her daughter-in-law (Darius' queen), and her three grandchildren were all captured by Alexander's forces at Issos in 333 B.C.E. Instead of killing them, as expected, he spared their lives and installed them with honor at Susa. When Alexander and Hephaestion came to visit the royal family, Sisygambis bowed to Hephaestion and addressed him as king, mistaking him for Alexander! Everyone was horrified but Alexander laughed and said, "Don't worry, mother, he too is Alexander."

Sisygambis became very attached to Alexander and began calling him her son, refusing to acknowledge her real son, the disgraced Darius. He married her granddaughter Stateira as his second wife, and gave her other granddaughter Drypetis to Hephaestion, in the hopes their children could be cousins. When Alexander died Sisygambis locked herself in her room and starved herself to death, preferring to die rather than live without her adopted "son".

[KayTang999]

Thanks for the update Nichol, you always come in here with a good news.

[Nichol]

CASTING UPDATE: According to Upcomingmovies.com (http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hp&cf=prev&id=1808402865) Joseph Morgan has been cast as Philotas, son of Parmenion and companion of Alexander.

[KayTang999]

How far do you think this will go??? It has to be far right. I mean they have Anthony Hopkins as older Ptolemy.

[CrazyMoo19]

Maybe they'll do some sort of flashback with Anthony Hopkins as the narrator or something??? Cause they only seem to have an old Ptolemy and no one else. Does anyone know if actual fliming has begun or are they still in pre-production?

[Nichol]

Originally posted by CrazyMoo19
Maybe they'll do some sort of flashback with Anthony Hopkins as the narrator or something??? Cause they only seem to have an old Ptolemy and no one else. Does anyone know if actual fliming has begun or are they still in pre-production?

Anthony Hopkins is playing the older Ptolemy, who will be narrating the story. Elliot Cowan will be playing the younger version of Ptolemy in the flashbacks. So in a sense there's two "Ptolemies" who are playing the same character -- think Kate Winslet and Gloria Stuart as Rose in Titanic.

The cast announced to date is:

Colin Farrell: Alexander
Val Kilmer: King Philip
Angelina Jolie: Olympias
Jared Leto: Hephaestion
Anthony Hopkins: Older Ptolemy
Jonathan Rhys-Meyers: Cassander
Rosario Dawson: Roxanne
Elliot Cowan: Young Ptolemy
Ian Beattie: Antigonus
Rory McCann: Crateros
Joseph Morgan: Philotas

Brian Blessed's character has not been revealed. Jeanne Moreau is in talks to join the cast, probably as Sisygambis.

Production began on the movie on September 22 in Morocco. They'll be filming also in Thailand and England.

[CrazyMoo19]

Excellent, can't wait to see it!!!! Any estimated time when the shooting will wrap?? And are they going to Thailand before England????

[Nichol]

Not exactly casting news, but neat none-the-less: Rowley Irlam (http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0410034/) will be Colin Farrell's stunt double for "Alexander".

Here's an excerpt from a recent article on the movie from NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/story/128218p-114715c.html):

Adds Stone, "Most of my films have been hard to make, but I've never had such a complicated movie as this." Budgeted at somewhere between $150 million and $200 million, it will be the most expensive European movie ever.

"America would not make the movie we wanted," gripes the director. Despite the warlike subject, Stone is keen to play down this angle. "Alexander was not a conqueror in the sense of Genghis Khan," he says. "He was Alexander the wanderer, the want-toknower, the enlightener. He wanted to unify in a way that was ultimately almost impossible. But, my God, he had vision."

Farrell says the film will also be upfront about Alexander's voracious bisexual appetites (Jared Leto co-stars as his favorite general and "lifetime companion").

"I don't mean to be cheesy and talk about sexual preference, race and religious creed," says Farrell. "But I will actually be cheesy and say, [the film's] about all those things. It takes place geographically in an area where the maddest things and the most horrific things happen. Look at CNN today and you will see it in Israel, Syria, everywhere. The story seems to me to be about our uncertainly about the next culture and the next country. But through uncertainty can come massive possibility, if you look at other people and listen to the next man."

[KayTang999]

He is totally right about enlightener because everywhere Alexander went, he brought with him the civilization of Greek.

[Nichol]

Everyone has checked out the newest photo (http://www.comingsoon.net/cgi-bin/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Action/Alexander&image=alexander1.jpg&img=&tt=) from the set, with Colin and Jared looking oh-so-yummy, I'm sure. Farrell looks really good with the blond hair, I'm impressed!

Also, according to the IMDB, eleven-year-old Connor Paolo (http://us.imdb.com/name/nm1269733/) has been cast as the younger Alexander.

[DolAmroth]

Heres a new pic

http://www.comingsoon.net/gallery/Action/Alexander/alexander1.jpg

[vlarsony]

I'm almost speechless. Is that Art Garfunkel on the left??? That picture is mindnumbingly tacky and Colin ... my God ... it's even worse than I imagined. Maybe he could try out for the WWF in the welterweight division ... {{{{shudder}}}}. Nice ... um sand ... and nice Nairing of all the leg hair. I think I know where Stone got the idea for that cheesy faux leopardskin saddle: http://www.alexanderthegreatmovie.com/gal6.htm

[ehinds]

But that horse... my goodness....

[DolAmroth]

Collin Farrel just looks funny i mean he doesnt seem like an ALexander the Great to me.

[Nichol]

Here's (http://www.alexander-rc.com/pictures/10-22-03coming-soon3.jpg) another picture of Colin Farrell in full battle gear in a battle scene.

And on this page (http://www.thefullmonty.com/bway/cast.htm) you can find a picture of Connor Paolo, who's playing Young Alexander, if you scroll down a bit.

[lotrfreak]

wow, cool picture!!!
i cant wait for this movie, colin is gonna be great!

[Pancaspe]

LOL... well the horse playing Bucephalus certainly looks impressive. But Colin Ferrell looks utterly ridiculous. He looks more like a male stripper then the greatest warrior of all time.

[Nichol]

CASTING UPDATE: according to the IMDB, Turkish-born actor Erol Sander has been cast in "Alexander" in an unknown role. I'm thinking it's a safe bet he's either Darius or Prince Pharnakes. Handsome devil (http://www.prisma-online.de/tv/person.html?pid=erol_sander), either way.

By the way, according to http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/people/casting_call.jsp (Hollywood Reporter): "Joseph Morgan has nabbed the role of Philotas in Oliver Stone's "Alexander." He next appears in Peter Weir's "Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World." Morgan is repped by ICM."

[KayTang999]

See I told you that even the filming is started, the casting process is far from being finished.

[Nichol]

NEW PICTURE: Here's Colin Farrell and Rosario Dawson in their wedding as Alexander and Roxanne (http://www.alexander-rc.com/pictures/11-04-03wedding.jpg). You can't see Dawson's face in this picture, but her gown is just gorgeous and Farrell is looking resplendent in his finery.

[ehinds]

He looks pouty.

[KayTang999]

I want to see Val, Angelina, and JRM pictures.

[KayTang999]

And one of my wish came true!!!

More pics!!! This time you got Jared, Colin, and JRM too!!!

http://www.thezreview.co.uk/news/news2518.htm

There are 4 galleries.

[Harley Quinn]

this movie looks quite.....retarded.

[KayTang999]

Well, it is just the beginning. I guess when everything come together it might make more sense.

[Nichol]

I don't understand people's complaints -- all the pictures look great. They're clearly not stills from the movie, only photos taken on set, so they're not as glossy and well-lit as they will be with the cinematographer working on them. I guess I don't understand why so-called "fans" will badmouth a movie a year before it even comes out, and contribute nothing of worth to the discussion.

[KayTang999]

You said it!!! I am so tired of people doing that and I am not going to even start saying anything and let them wallow in the darkness.

[southern]

nice location Nichol:D

[KayTang999]

You both are from Mississippi???

[Raiden]

Looks good, and besides, I'm sure Colin Farrell will do a better job as Alexander the Great than Leo DiCaprio, anyway.

[ehinds]

Ya, but I dunno... the I'm-a-pretty-boy-but-I'm-also-a-bad-boy thing is just not working for me as Alexander the Great. I'd like to see someone who represents power, who looks strong in every sense of the word.

[ehinds]

Oh, and riding a horse without full length pants is quite possibly the most uncomfortable thing in the world... ouch!

[KayTang999]

Seems to be that this movie is extremely hard physically.

[lotrfreak]

i wish people would look past colin's image and see him for what he is : a good actor
he could do this role a lot better then leo could!!

[redman]

yeah, i think this movie is going to be far better than what the promo image suggests. But it is a really bad promo image.

[KayTang999]

Yeah, that why I think that we have to wait a little longer before we can judge anything.

[Athens]

I want to say my opinion about the best Alexanter the great because I am Greek and we khow how looked like the ancient Greek.
First of all , alexanter was not blonde like all the Greeks (Achilles in troy is different because the legent say that he was son of gods and there wasn't any desciption because the trojan war happen 1200 bc, the only that we have for achilles are some no colour paintings) and we have many desciption about how looked like Alexanter . Secondly Alexanter was short strong and with big head (Leonardo look like more than Farell ) . I believe that the best Alexanter would be crouze.
Secondly , Oliver stone make a very big mistake to make Alexanter to look like gay because he married many time and he was very tough guy . For the history in ancient Greece didn't have gays (sometimes some powerful man had relasionship with ather men but they had in the same time ralasionship with woman the majority of these relasionship took place during many years wars that was very seldom in Ancint Greece. These happen also in mulsi nation ) .
So it is very big mistake to judge with our belief a ancient Greek . Alexanter was the bigger conquerer ever he connected all the Greek cities and unter his control he conquered all the khown world in a perion that these was impossible.He use was tecnins and army organisation that are similar to noedays tecnics, His empire was the start for roman and byzintane empires and he exported the Greek culture to all the world . So It a pity to remember Alexanter as the most famous gay than to remember him as the bigger ever conquerer .

[Lachesis]

I won't try to coment on the blonde hair business. It was obviously a deliberate choice, since Colin Farrell's sporting an obvious dye-job.

As for the portrayal of Alexander's sexuality, the movie seems to be going the bisexual route. He still falls in love with and marries Roxanne. Don't worry.

[KayTang999]

Yeah, I didn't think Alexander was blonde either, now someone who is Greek actually agree with me, so glad!!!

[Athens]

@lachesis
I really worry about Oliver stone version because we have different belief and experience about sexuality that ancient Greeks .The sexuality matter in ancient greece was not exist and they didn't have gays , bisexuals and normal men . It would be better Oliver stone never deel with this matter because these part of the film will cover the other part of the film about the embire he created .In ancient Greek make some this that today looks strange and it is posible to got wrong .
P.e. In ancient olympic games the athlets were completly nude as we all khow ,it is believed that they ran nude because they didn't have the proper clothes or because he was simbly ancient uncultivated but the reality is different and the majority of people will believe that this was strange reaction.
So the athlets was nude because in ancient Greek liked to see the well-trained body nude without nothing and to marvel it like god body for that reason all the structure were nude. This thinking in our days looks strangy and slily but in ancient Greece was not .
Today we khow that gays and bisexual is a genetic difference that it is not normal and it is a choice that separete people.Today it is a matter of choice and feelings . In ancient Greece didn't have the thinking to choose.
So the problem is how we will see the Alexanter's bisexuality ,I believe we will see like a genetic difference and not normal thing that happen in ancient Greek to kings.And the film will be remember as the Alexanter the great bisexual and not Alexanter the great conquerer that create in few years the biggest empire ever .
To conclude , sexuality in ancient year is a very sensite matter and it is better not tough at all. In Africa p.e. I believed that in some place was necessary to have gay relation the yound boy in order to be men .

[vlarsony]

Athens, you clearly know nothing about Leonardo DiCaprio. He is not "short". He is 6'1" which makes him a fairly tall guy. Colin Farrell is around 5'9". Alexander undoubtedly was considerably shorter than Leo. Is this the same type of "fact" you have about Alexander not being blonde? If so, then I'm afraid there's a credibility gap here. Also, I don't think either Stone or Luhrmann has an intention to portray Alexander as "gay".

[Pancaspe]

At one time Oliver Stone did intend to show Alexander as "gay"
which is the reason the Greek government will have nothing to do with his film. Stone has since backed off on portraying Alexander as "gay". Like most Macedonian's Alexander was a polygamist. He had three wives their names were Roxane, Stateria and Parysatis. Alexander had between two and four mistresses as well, the two mistresses most frequently mentioned are Brasine and Pancaspe.

Luhrmann's film is based on Valerio Massimo Manfredi's novels.
Alexander wives and mistresses are well represented in the novels. Reading the novels one can see Alexander was certainly not "gay".

[KayTang999]

Ah so he is not doing the gay part, good. I thought he would be a bit daring but oh well.

[Lachesis]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You really think they'd have cast Jared Leto as Hephaestion if *nothing* was going to happen? I understood that Oliver Stone fully intends to show Alexander having both male and female lovers. Since this is historically accurate, I don't see how this is a detraction, context or not.

Frankly, I don't understand the fuss. So the man swung both ways, for whatever reasons. Big deal. I'd be more upset if they glossed over the facts in favor of pandering to the homophobes.

[Pancaspe]

There's actually no proof that Alexander and Hephaestion ever had a sexual relationship or that they were anything more then friends. Alexander referred to Hephaestion as a friend no more no less. I learned long ago not to look for historical accuracy at the movies.

[KayTang999]

Originally posted by Lachesis
Whoa, whoa, whoa. You really think they'd have cast Jared Leto as Hephaestion if *nothing* was going to happen? I understood that Oliver Stone fully intends to show Alexander having both male and female lovers. Since this is historically accurate, I don't see how this is a detraction, context or not.

Frankly, I don't understand the fuss. So the man swung both ways, for whatever reasons. Big deal. I'd be more upset if they glossed over the facts in favor of pandering to the homophobes.

I was going to say that about Jared but I was thinking may be he is just eyes candy.

[sunflower03]

i am not trying to debate the whole issue. i don't really think it is a gay or straight thing, but the reason that it is believed that he had a sexual relationship with another man is because a lot of greek soldiers, when they were away at war, would have sexual relationships with each other. back then they really didn't have camp followers (women who would follow around an army and have sexual relationships with the soldiers).

[lotrfreak]

i think they should portray the relationship, it would make for a better movie!

[KayTang999]

Originally posted by sunflower03
i am not trying to debate the whole issue. i don't really think it is a gay or straight thing, but the reason that it is believed that he had a sexual relationship with another man is because a lot of greek soldiers, when they were away at war, would have sexual relationships with each other. back then they really didn't have camp followers (women who would follow around an army and have sexual relationships with the soldiers).

That I agree because it usually happen.

[Nichol]

Let's not even get into the gay thing, y'all. First of all, the ancient Greeks had a completely different idea of love than we do -- what we know as homosexuality was considered a form of love. As far as Alexander goes, Bagoas was called his "eromenos" (erotic lover) in the ancient histories, and one writer recounts a story of how they kissed at a play in front of a crowd.

Hephaestion was more controversial. He is called "philalexandros", which leaves "lover of Alexander", but a sexual relationship is not explicitly mentioned. Most historians, however, and with good reason, believe he and Alexander were lovers. In contrast, Alexander's best friend, Crateros, was called "philobasileus" (lover of the king) which is somewhat more formal a title -- it's unlikely he and Crateros were lovers. For more on this subject written by an actual ancient Greek historian, check out Jeanne Reames-Zimmerman's (http://home.earthlink.net/~mathetria/lover.html) website.

[southern]

Originally posted by KayTang999
You both are from Mississippi??? i believe so:D

[Pancaspe]

The Greeks had a number of words to express love, eros was used to denote love in a sexual sense, phila indicated love as in friendship and agape denoted principled love. Alexander never spoke of Hephaestion as anything other then a friend. As for Bogoas I've read that he was referred to only as a servant of Alexander, no more no less. A movie can create a sexual relationship between Alexander and Hephasition but there is no proof that any such relationship existed, as this excerpt shows.

Hephaistion

Let us return now to the question of what involvement, if any, Alexander had with his life-long friend, Hephaistion. Our three Greek historians (Arrian, Diodorus and Plutarch) never term him erastes or eromenos, only philos or malista timomenos. Alexander himself calls him philalexandros (friend of Alexander). Curtius and Justin use only amicus, never amans. The only implication of a sexual relationship or use of the term eromenos for Hephaistion occurs in late sources or those of dubious authorship. [Ael. VH 12.7, Epic. Dis. 2.12.17-18, Diog. Epistles 24, and Luc. Dial. Dead 397.] So while we do have evidence that it was possible, in Macedonian society, for young boys of roughly the same age to form attachments to one another which included a sexual expression, there is no indisputable evidence for such an attachment between Alexander and Hephaistion. That evidence does exist is circumstantial only.Personally, I find it convincing, but I do think we must acknowledge that we cannot state with certainty that Alexander and Hephaistion were lovers, either as young men, or continuing throughout their lives

[Pancaspe]

Originally posted by sunflower03
i am not trying to debate the whole issue. i don't really think it is a gay or straight thing, but the reason that it is believed that he had a sexual relationship with another man is because a lot of greek soldiers, when they were away at war, would have sexual relationships with each other. back then they really didn't have camp followers (women who would follow around an army and have sexual relationships with the soldiers).

While this is true to a certain extent it's also true that the Macedonian's acquired Asian concubines as well. Sometimes willingly sometimes by other means. When Alexander put down uprisings in Sogdiana and Bactria he ordered all the men killed and the women and children taken as "loot" for his troops. One of Alexander's mistresses Brasine was the widow of a Greek mercenary who had been his enemy. Brasine travled with Alexander for about five years and they had one son Heracles. Others of his soldiers had concubines and children traveling with them as well.

[Nichol]

Um, so what, Pancaspe? No one is denying Alexander had wives and concubines and fathered children. What we are debating is whether he had male lovers as well, and the general consensus, especially in the historical community, is yes. Alexander lived in a culture that accepted homosexual relationships and he had male friends that he associated with himself as being lovers -- notice the Patroklos/Akhilleus association of Hephaestion and Alexander. While they weren't specifically described as lovers in the Iliad, later Greeks believed they were, and it's unlikely Alexander and Hephaestion would have compared their relationship to that of the heros had they not been lovers as well.

Bagoas is very specifically described as Alexander's "eromenos" -- by Curtius, I believe, though I don't have the books with me now. The meaning of *that* word should be quite undebateable. The account of them kissing can be found in both Plutarch and Athenaeus, so why don't you go pick them up and learn some real history about Alexander?

P.S. Yes, I am a native of Mississippi, but I'll be moving to Maryland in a couple of months.

[Pancaspe]

Originally posted by Nichol
Um, so what, Pancaspe? No one is denying Alexander had wives and concubines and fathered children. What we are debating is whether he had male lovers as well, and the general consensus, especially in the historical community, is yes. Alexander lived in a culture that accepted homosexual relationships and he had male friends that he associated with himself as being lovers -- notice the Patroklos/Akhilleus association of Hephaestion and Alexander. While they weren't specifically described as lovers in the Iliad, later Greeks believed they were, and it's unlikely Alexander and Hephaestion would have compared their relationship to that of the heros had they not been lovers as well.

Bagoas is very specifically described as Alexander's "eromenos" -- by Curtius, I believe, though I don't have the books with me now. The meaning of *that* word should be quite undebateable. The account of them kissing can be found in both Plutarch and Athenaeus, so why don't you go pick them up and learn some real history about Alexander?

P.S. Yes, I am a native of Mississippi, but I'll be moving to Maryland in a couple of months.

Actually I've read Plutarch and a kiss should not be confused with a sexual relationship. Whether or not there is a consensus about Alexander having had male lovers the reality is there really is no proof, only speculation. Speculation that may or may not be true which is why not all historians agree. In the end a movie is just a movie and should not be confused with reality, history or even truth. Most people learned that watching Oliver Stone's JFK.

[Nichol]

Well, of course there's no way for you or me to ever know the truth about Alexander's feeling for anyone -- male or female. He died centuries ago and baring the miraculous discovery of a long-lost diary or something, we'll never know the extent of his relationships with anyone. All we know comes from ancient historians and conjecture.

I must say, however, that I think your arguements are rather forced. We have Bagoas explicitely called his "eromenos" and an account of them kissing, we have evidence of Alexander's closeness to Hephaestion that is deeply loving. You almost have to *want* Alexander not to have loved them in order to ignore the testimony.

[KayTang999]

Well this is fun. I was debating in the other thread about the relationship between Paris and Helen and I think anything that is personal like love or sexuality, is hard to get the fact for it. It is not something that people would record and even if they did, intrepretation can be different from one person to another. So Plutach can say something and Diodorus can say something that is totally different. Beside, there were others who were close to Alexander more than these 2 historian, like Hephaistion. Sometime thing can get spice up. But I think anything is possible. We know he has wives but that doesn't mean he can't take male lovers.

[Pancaspe]

Originally posted by Nichol
Well, of course there's no way for you or me to ever know the truth about Alexander's feeling for anyone -- male or female. He died centuries ago and baring the miraculous discovery of a long-lost diary or something, we'll never know the extent of his relationships with anyone. All we know comes from ancient historians and conjecture.

I've not read that Alexander referred to Baogas using the word "eromenos". Sources that describe Alexander as using that term with Hephastian have been described as being of dubious authorship. I also don't believe a love for the Iliad is proof of a sexual relationship. One has to speculate about the Iliad and then speculate about how Alexander thought about the Iliad to arrive at that conclusion.

We do know how Alexander felt about Roxane, the source is Arrian who's sources were Alexander's friend and Pharaoh of Egypt Ptolemy and Alexander's historian Aristobulus. Arrian wrote this about Alexander and Roxane:

In the family of one of the Sogdian leaders, called Oxyartes, there
was a young girl second in beauty it was said only to the wife of
Darius. Her name was Roxane. Alexander fell in love with her at
first sight.

Ptolemy and Aristobulus actually knew Alexander and Arrian's writing is based on their eyewitness account. So we do know how Alexander felt about Roxane he "fell in love" with her, there's no speculation about that.

[Nichol]

I've not read that Alexander referred to Baogas using the word "eromenos". Sources that describe Alexander as using that term with Hephastian have been described as being of dubious authorship.

I have never claimed that Hephaestion was referred to as "eromenos", so don't you dare put words in my mouth.

do know how Alexander felt about Roxane, the source is Arrian who's sources were Alexander's friend and Pharaoh of Egypt Ptolemy and Alexander's historian Aristobulus. Arrian wrote this about Alexander and Roxane:

In the family of one of the Sogdian leaders, called Oxyartes, there
was a young girl second in beauty it was said only to the wife of
Darius. Her name was Roxane. Alexander fell in love with her at
first sight.

Ptolemy and Aristobulus actually knew Alexander and Arrian's writing is based on their eyewitness account. So we do know how Alexander felt about Roxane he "fell in love" with her, there's no speculation about that.

Again I say, "So what?" We know that Alexander loved and married Roxane, but that means nothing as to his relations with other people. He married two Persian princesses besides her, had Bagoas as his lover, had Barsine as a concubine, and probably had Hephaestion as well. Marital fidelity was evidently not high on Alexander's list of priorities.

[Pancaspe]

Alexander was a polygamist as was his Father as this was the custom in Macedonia. So Alexander's relationship with his wives Roxane, Stateira and Parysatis had nothing to do with fidelity. Brasine was Alexander's mistress prior to his marriage to Roxane, it's not clear to me that that relationship continued after the marriage. My comments about Roxane were in response to your comment that no one knows the truth about Alexander's feelings for anyone----male or female, when we know exactly how he felt about Roxane, he "fell in love" with her. While he certainly loved Hephaestion as a friend, claims of a sexual involvement fall in to the category of speculation, which is all that I'm saying. All we know for sure about Hephaestion is that he was Alexander's close friend.

[KayTang999]

This is the most creative debate I have seen around here, good job guys!!!

[sunflower03]

i never said that alexander didn't have wives and of course he would have slept with lots of other women as well, being that he was a ruler and a conqueror. i also agree they would have used the women they conquerored sexually. what i was saying though is that they didn't have regularly greek women, who followed the soldiers around, doing sexually favors for money, which later on came be very common, hence the term camp follower. for example, there were a lot of these types of women, who followed the solidiers around in the american revolution. that is why i was pointing out that it was common back then for greek solidiers to have sexual relationships with each other. that is part of the reason also why it is widely believed that alexander would have done the same, even if he did have a mistress along.

[Athens]

Reading the above posts , it would be better Oliver stone never had started this subject. I like that the majority has the same opinion with me.
I will not see the film in theaters because I am sure that I will see things about the Alexanter's possibly sexuality and I will straiten .
Alexanter is a model for every kid because he was the greater conquerer ever so it is not correct to be also the example of great gay .
Maybe Oliver stone understand his mistake and he finally not show anything about Alexanter sexuality (that we really don't khow anything about )

[KayTang999]

He is a great conquerer but I don't think he is a good model for anyone. We are not in imperialism era anymore. No need of conquering.

[sunflower03]

i think what the person is saying is that he doesn't want them to use him as some gay icon, and ignore the fact that he was this great conqueror guy. i don't think they are trying to turn him into a gay icon, because if they were they wouldn't also be showing his relationship with women as well. i think they should just show the history of any movie whatever that history is, whether a historical figure was straight, slept with both sexes, or gay.

i do agree their is no absolute proof that he even had any sexual relationship with his friend, unless someone invents a time machine there is no way to prove either way. but based on some of the circumstantial evidence, i would have to say there is a strong possibility. honestly it dosn't really matter to me either way, all i really care about is if they make a good movie out of it, and pay attention to the major historical points of it.

[KayTang999]

I am wondering how long we can keep debating until the movie is out.

[Athens]

Yes About the fight he isn't and should be a model (alhough we learn in school his fights and we admire him) but about the effects that his actions had ,yes he should be a model.
He changed the life of people in Asia to the better . He transfer the Greek culture to this countries (when I say culture I mean the way of life). So historians agree that he changed the world to the better.

[Blairish]

Ok, I'm new here but wanted to weigh in with my size 12's.

I don't understand why some of you are having trouble grasping the fact that the ENTIRE concept and thinking behind male sexuality was completely different back in Alexander's time.

Gender was much less relevant then than it is today, words like gay straight and bi simply had no meaning. The fact remains (and is utterly indesputable) that Hephaistion held primary affection in Alexander's heart to the exclusion of all others (and yes, I'm including Roxane in that) I highly doubt Alexander fell "in love" with her, or any of his wives - all his marriages were politically motivated. It has also been documented that Roxane no longer shared Alexander's bed only a couple of months after their marriage.

Whether Alexander was 'in love' with Hephaistion will never be known. What *is* known however is that in Alexander's time, close male friendships were strengthened and expressed through sex. Alexander and Hephaistion were unusually close therefore it is absolutely no stretch to assume that their love was expressed in this way also. Every single historical account and documentary I've ever seen has unfailingly referred to Hephaistion as Alexander's "close friend and lover".

I'm very relieved to learn that this film will be portraying Alexander and Hephaistion's relationship as sexual in nature, for them not to would be highly disrespectful and would be a pander to the small minority of people who simply 'don't like that sort of thing'

One more thing. Nichol, I've been reading up on this film on a few message boards and have seen your name come up numerous times. You've been an absolutely brilliant fountain of information and knowledge and I enjoy reading your posts - keep up the good work :)

[Ally]

I thought it was the people who knew Alexander who said he fell in love with Roxane. It makes no sense to me that they should lie about the true nature of Alexander and Roxane's relationship. I had hoped to see a film about Alexander the Great's many accomplishments rather then a politically correct film about Alexander's sex life. But this is Oliver Stone so maybe I should have known better.

[KayTang999]

Well may be Baz might learn a little thing or two from this production and make his better.

[nickodimas]

I have to say that I can't wait for this movie. Alexander the Great is one of my favorite people in History. I think that his story is amazing.

As for the whole bisexuality thing, true there is no historical documentation that Alexander and Hephaistion were lovers, it is really hard to imagine that they wouldn't be. They were extremely close. I have read accounts that Alexander went crazy with grief and laid upon the body of Hephaistion at the time of his death for 3 days. Though I don't believe that, it is an example of how close they were.

Ancient Greeks didn't have terms for gay, straight or bisexuality. They didn't care who you slept with, only what part you played in the act. If you took a passive role, then you were of lower social standing that the person in the dominant role. Which if you took a more passive role, you were taking the role of a woman to them. If you took the dominant position, it didn't matter who you slept with.

I pulled this information from this site http://home.earthlink.net/~mathetria/lover.html

I have always been interested in their relationship and hope that Oliver Stone does portray them as lovers, as that is what I think they were, as well as best friends.

By the way Nichol, I love reading your posts, you ROCK!!

[KayTang999]

I have no problem with neither, just get it out already!!! I can't wait!!!

[sunflower03]

i don't know why people can't think that they can show him as a conqueror, but show some of his life story as well. how else can people appreciate, how he became what he was, if you just see all the battles but none of the story behind it.

[KayTang999]

The bottomline is that this is just another hollywood movie. You can't take it as face value.

[nickodimas]

this is true, which sadly people will do.

[Nichol]

Sorry I've been away for a few days, work caught up with me!

nickodimas and Blairish, among others, I'd like to thank you for your kind words. I am a historian, but the classical and hellenistic era is not my forte (I'm a medievalist, primarily) but I've tried to share what information I have.

Btw, has anyone seen HBO's "Master and Commander" special? I was watching it the other day, lo and behold, there was Joseph Morgan (Philotas)! You can't find any pictures of him on the Net, so I'll describe him: he's very young, very cute, and very blond.

[KayTang999]

I will most likely go to see that movie but not sure when. But that is good.

[dnash]

Reading over the last several posts with the "did Alexander and Hephastion have sex" arguments... Something to keep in mind is that we've had many, many centuries of homophobic scholars taking great pains to cover up and deny the evidence of ancient Greek sexuality. (See, for example, in the film "Maurice," a scene where university students translating aloud from Plato are instructed to "omit the reference to the unspeakable vice of the Greeks.") So when people claim "I've never heard of that" or "I've never read that before" - doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Translations of ancient texts can have the tell-tale words deliberately mis-translated or left out, for example. Scholars may overlook clues which are otherwise obvious to those who aren't committed to seeing everyone as automatically heterosexual.

For Stone to include it in this film is simply being honest. Those who wish he would leave it out seem to be expressing the, frankly, bigoted view that homosexuals (and/or bisexuals) make "bad role models," and a wish to remain in denial about something that has been a part of human nature from the beginning. When someone says they don't want Alexander to be a "gay icon" they seem to be saying that being gay would make him a lesser man. Which is silly. Richard the Lionhearted and T.E. Lawrence were both gay and heroes as well.

Not to mention that we have no idea whatsoever the degree to which Alexander's sexuality is part of the film. It doesn't sound to me like it's the primary focus of the story, so all this debating may be a tempest in a teapot.

[Ally]

I don't agree that there was an attempt to hide homosexual relationships in the ancient writings. Plutarch details a plot to murder Alexander in which one of the plotterrs Dimnos is described as inviting a young man Nicomachus "whose lover he was" to take part in the plot. Nicomachus refuses to be involved in the plot and reports the conspiracy to his brother Cebalinus. The brothers then attempt to reach Alexander to warn him about the plot. Plutarch did not attempt to hide the relationship between Dimnos and Nichomachus, instead he describes their relationship to establish why Dimnos would approach Nichomachus about the murder plot.In writing about Hephasestion Plutarch describes him as a friend of Alexander and places the relationship in the context of a close friendship not as lovers.

[dnash]

Originally posted by Ally
I don't agree that there was an attempt to hide homosexual relationships in the ancient writings.

It's not the ancient writings that hid them, it's the various Christian anti-homosexual translators over the centuries. Up until fairly recently, it was always swept under the rug.

[KayTang999]

I agree with what you are saying dnash about the mis-translation. It could go either way and ancient text is not modern language, certain terms have different conotation from what we have now a day.

[Knerys]

Yeah I agree. Back then it was pretty much a free from all when it came to relationships. They didn't have the same belief systems for moral guidelines that now exist. I think they should tell it like it is heh. They do in history classes anyways so what's the problem?

[KayTang999]

My professor never say anything about that context because she thought it is to invasive and could be wrong so we never touch that subject. Most of the stuff I know is from my own reading and that is the thing because I could interpreted different from others.

[sunflower03]

they discussed some of this on on the "history of sex" on the history channel. i believe that was shown last year, and is reshown on the history channel once and a while.

[KayTang999]

I will keep that in mind and check it out.