The Phone call at the end of the Matrix takes place at the end of Revolutions [Archive]

Martinnyg

06-14-2003, 07:16 AM

This is something I read on the AICN message boards. It was posted by a user called zerohourx. And I am not taking any credit myself for this theory. Just thought I would share it here, and hear your thoughts about it. If this has been on here before, I am really sorry.

The original Matrix starts with Trinity and Cypher talking, the screen shows "Trace Program" and the date "2-18-98". The movie ends with Neo making a phone call, the trace program is initiated and the date reads "9-18-99"... 19 months have passed! If you watch the movie again, you'll see that the time sequence implies that they found Neo shortly after that initial conversation (a few months after 2-18-98 at most). Significant? Yes; I propose that Reloaded and Revolutions (which we know occur one after another), take place between 2-18-98 and 9-18-99. Here's why: Only a few months could have passed from the time Morpheus and the crew 'free' Neo to the time Neo is killed and revived in the hallway. Why? for one, Neo's hair barely grows in that time and that's not a trivial observation (it's also obvious that Neo grew out his hair in Reloaded which occurs roughly 6 months after he's unplugged). We also know the W brothers don't put insignificant things into their movies - the fact that they obviously signal to us that 19 months have passed from the start of the Matrix to the time Neo makes that phone call is there for a reason. In Reloaded, Neo says that "I wish I knew what I was supposed to do". The phone call scene in the Matrix, Neo is very sure of what he is supposed to do, "I'm going to hang up this phone and show these people what you don't want them to see... a world without you, without controls and boundries". Why would he have forgotten what to do between M1 and M2? he didn't, that last scene in M1 occurs after Revolutions! Finally, at the end of M1, Neo states that "I can feel you now, you are scared". At the end of Reloaded he says, "Something is different, I can FEEL them now". One more thing. A game directed by the W brothers called Matrix online is due in '04 and the timeframe takes place after Revolutions... and the matrix is alive and well in the game. My guess is that there is no MWAM, they don't destroy the Matrix because they can't unplug everyone at once and we'll see Neo make that very same phone call at the end of Revolutions! I hope this wasn't too confusing to follow.

XtRaVa

06-14-2003, 08:00 AM

6 months have passed since the first movie and reloaded firstly. The trace program shows ports and other connection references, are you sure thats the date? Because whenever I have seen it, it says something like trans opt, meaning the port and link number etc, doesnt say anything about a date...Reloaded and Revolutions take place over 48 hours I think you'll find, so I dont see how any of what this guy has said is right.

One more thing, when I first mentioned about the online game taking place after revolutions AGES ago, I was yelled at for not using spoiler bars, because some people didnt know that the matrix isnt destroyed at the end of revolutions, maybe you should have done the same...well hopefully no one will care now, seems like I got the brunt of it for letting that one slip.

ciao

Morphius DOH

06-14-2003, 08:16 AM

IMO, Reloaded takes place over a 36-48hr time period. The reason I say this is because after Morpheus' speech and Zion rave scene, we see the lights turning off for the night (1st day). Then you have the rest of the movie, which has enough events to take up another 12hrs at least. Revolutions, however, does take place in a 24hr time frame, as stated by Joel Silver.

Martinnyg

06-14-2003, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by XtRaVa
6 months have passed since the first movie and reloaded firstly. The trace program shows ports and other connection references, are you sure thats the date? Because whenever I have seen it, it says something like trans opt, meaning the port and link number etc, doesnt say anything about a date...Reloaded and Revolutions take place over 48 hours I think you'll find, so I dont see how any of what this guy has said is right.

One more thing, when I first mentioned about the online game taking place after revolutions AGES ago, I was yelled at for not using spoiler bars, because some people didnt know that the matrix isnt destroyed at the end of revolutions, maybe you should have done the same...well hopefully no one will care now, seems like I got the brunt of it for letting that one slip.

ciao

Well, that thing about the Matrix Online being after Revolutions and taking place inside the Matrix. Is in almost every thread on this board, so I don't think there's any reason to make a spoiler thing.

XtRaVa

06-14-2003, 09:56 AM

Thats what I said to the person who had a go at me, he really went off his head swearing and stuff, even though I thought everyone already knew that, but apparently I was one of the first to tell anyone =/

He really did go absolutely crazy :(

hpk37067

06-14-2003, 11:50 AM

Well, he knew the ultimate goal was to free the minds of everyone plugged into the matrix. In Reloaded and Revolutions, he has to find out how to do it.

spiderman_2k

06-14-2003, 12:18 PM

Actually check my post i didnt go crazy....

XtRaVa

06-14-2003, 12:39 PM

lol oh yeah it was j00!! grrr :p

onlythetruth

06-14-2003, 04:09 PM

I thought the same thing at first. I thought the phone call at the end was the end of revolutions as well but after watching Reloaded 3 times i saw it on one of the architects screens so it couldn't be in the future. Well actually i guess it could because he did show trinity falling and that happened minutes later. So i guess i have no point to make.

Tee244

06-14-2003, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by XtRaVa
lol oh yeah it was j00!! grrr :p

LOL.. That was pretty funny..

Boiiinng

06-14-2003, 05:36 PM

XtRaVa

06-14-2003, 05:40 PM

lol thanks tee

holy crap, guys I am really thinking that perhaps the fone call at the end of the first movie IS after revolutions, for the reasons discussed...the date on the fone trace is apparently 19 months on from the date of the first convo between trin and cypher in the first movie...so this would make sense, also because of the way he says "i can feel u now, i can feel ur scared" or sumthin like that, much the same way as he says he feels the machines at the end of reloaded...it wudnt make sense him sayin he can feel them at the end of the first one, then deciding he can once again feel them at the end of reloaded, it wud be nothing new to him.

However the things that dont work very well, is that we dont get to see how he can do his superman thing durin the first and second movie, if neo flying at the end actually takes place after revolutions. Link says about how hes doin his superman thing, meaning hes done it before, but the only time wed know that he has is if the phone call is at the end of the first movie...but then again there are a lot of things that we dont see neo do in those 6 months that link and co could have.

But Neo says hes going to show everyone what he can do, and basically tell ppl about the matrix, and i dont feel this has been done. Its been fobbed off by people saying how they've freed more people in the last 6 months than 6 years or whatever, but I dont think this is quite what neo meant...it sounded to me as tho when he was talkin on the fone he was basically saying "look im going to show the whole world i can fly n ****, and tell them they are in the matrix, so u better get ur act together and stop tryin to kill us" or sumthin like that lol. And if the phone call was meant at the end of revolutions, then obviously it does work, coz then neo will tell everyone about the matrix after the events of revolutions...which makes sense coz we know the matrix will still be operational after revolutions because of the online game.

So there seem to be more reasons that make it that the fone call wud be at the end of revolutions, and not at the end of the first movie as how it seems to be shown. My biggest doubt though, is about the time frame. The other thread said about how the fone call at the start of the first movie, and the fone call we see at the end of the first movie is 19 months. We know that when they first free neo, all the events that unfold happen in not much more than 1 week, maybe 2 or so. We also know that the events in reloaded take place 6 months later, and reloaded and revolutions take place over 48 hours or so. So that means its only been just under 7 months between the first call, and supposedly the call seen at the end of the first IF it is in fact meant after revolutions' events...leaving an error of 12 months =/

So I really dont know if that call did happen at the end of the first movie or not now, anyone care to discuss wiv meh?!? :p

XtRaVa

06-14-2003, 06:32 PM

yiiiii heee, jamon mother f****r!

sorry went a bit michael jackson there, when I was supposed to be doing a bump

p.s. dont stop till you get enough

Tee244

06-14-2003, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by XtRaVa
lol thanks tee

LOL.. I'm not taking sides.. you and spidey are both cool..:D

XtRaVa

06-14-2003, 06:45 PM

no no, the thanks was to u saying somethin i said was funny, this is a different post to the one about the source in case u accidentally clicked this one. read my post about the fone call thing, need some speculation on whether it cud be true. its above :)

chinball wizard

06-14-2003, 06:45 PM

based on what has been said (or typed, if you will), i think it would be totally like the wk bros. to pull a move like this. my only problem is: if it's true, then i want the wk bros. to go all lucas and **** and change the first movie so the ground ripples before he flies off. that'd be cool! hell yeah! i'd like go see a special edition re-release just for that scene. who's with me?

XtRaVa

06-14-2003, 06:48 PM

All those in favour say I.

I.

What about the problem of the missing 12 months time? any ideas?

chinball wizard

06-14-2003, 06:55 PM

maybe it will take that amount of time to fix the matrix, as it is decaying in revolutions. or maybe neo wants some time to chill and bone trinity before he goes about helping the rest of humanity. i think he's already shown what his little 'one' would choose.

Tee244

06-14-2003, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by chinball wizard
maybe it will take that amount of time to fix the matrix, as it is decaying in revolutions. or maybe neo wants some time to chill and bone trinity before he goes about helping the rest of humanity. i think he's already shown what his little 'one' would choose.

LMAO..

It's an interesting theory, Xtrava...I'm not really in the mood to go into deep thought about that right now though, lol.. just be grateful we dont have to wait three years to find out...

CA4IA

06-14-2003, 07:45 PM

This site talks a little about the Matrix online http://www.ferrago.co.uk/story/1602

Ghostofzion2003

06-14-2003, 09:10 PM

That theroy about the phone call being at the end of revolutions may be true because if you look very closely at the revolutions trailer when the oracle is talking and says everthing that has a begining has an end neo is in white room opening his eyes and hes wearing a diferent coat and the collar is like the collar in the lobbyshoot out open and folded over.

ImNotTheOne

06-14-2003, 09:26 PM

Ghost,
I agree... in fact, the coat he's wearing when he kisses Trinity in the SuperBowl tralier looks similar to the one he's wearing during the phone call.

Interesting...

Ghostofzion2003

06-14-2003, 09:36 PM

i guess we will just have to wait til november to see but its an intersting point..

redman

06-14-2003, 10:06 PM

regarding the time frame of the first matrix, when morpheus freed neo, and he was talking to him inside that training program didnt he say something like "you think its the year 1999 but in fact its closer to 2199". Doesn't that disprove the theory that the first matrix occurs over a 2 week period? Because if it began on the 18th of february 1998 and morpheus freed neo in the year 1999 thats more like a year.

chinball wizard

06-14-2003, 10:16 PM

redman, in all humble honesty, and meaning no disrespect as i have never met you and conversely know nothing about you, that is the dumbest logic i have ever read...by someone named redman. and i have all of your records! you and method man are my niggas!

Boiiinng

06-15-2003, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by redman
regarding the time frame of the first matrix, when morpheus freed neo, and he was talking to him inside that training program didnt he say something like "you think its the year 1999 but in fact its closer to 2199". Doesn't that disprove the theory that the first matrix occurs over a 2 week period? Because if it began on the 18th of february 1998 and morpheus freed neo in the year 1999 thats more like a year.

good point, may be an error, although he may just have said it because the film came out in 1999.

XtRaVa

06-15-2003, 04:22 AM

wtf r u on about redman? the first matrix died long ago, this is the 6th working matrix, been runnin for 100 years, so what ur sayin doesnt make any sense at all

Boiiinng

06-15-2003, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by XtRaVa
wtf r u on about redman? the first matrix died long ago, this is the 6th working matrix, been runnin for 100 years, so what ur sayin doesnt make any sense at all

wtf r u on about xtrava? redman means that if the current Matrix year is 1999, then the 02-18-98 date on the tracer call at the beginning of the film doesn't make sense, unless they were watching Neo almost a year before they freed him.

fes

06-15-2003, 06:08 PM

Maybe "The Matrix Online" isn't a human Matrix, maybe it's a machine Matrix.

Remember Matricualted? They plug a machine into a "network" (of sorts) where they allow it to make it's own decision - join the humans OR stay with the machines.

Maybe the humans connect the machines to the matrix and slowly free people from within. This gives them time to save each and every person without having machines after them.

hpk37067

06-15-2003, 06:23 PM

So are you saying that humans in turn enslave the machines? Because that just sounds retarded. Too much of a chance that they reject the system all together.

fes

06-15-2003, 06:30 PM

No they defeat the machines but they plug them into the matrix so everybody plugged in survives. Then they start releasing minds. Plugging the machines into it just keeps it running and they wouldn't reject it because the humans would give the machines what the machines gave them, choice, but choice at a highly subconcious level.

hpk37067

06-15-2003, 06:31 PM

How would putting the machines in the matrix stop it from crashing?

fes

06-15-2003, 06:34 PM

If they released a lot of the humans the network would collapse because there aren't enough stations to - at it's most simple "re-transmit the signal" By putting machines in you still have those stations there, therefore the matrix remains active.

hpk37067

06-15-2003, 08:40 PM

I still don't understand what you are saying. The matrix is going to collapse whether they do anything or not. They can't stop it. Something about if the One reaches the Source and doesn't comply with the machines, the matrix crashes. So I don't think it has anything to do with stations and the such.

thebtskink

06-15-2003, 09:05 PM

Just to resolve that date issue.... Morpheus believes it's close to 2199.... but really, it's much much further than that because of the 6 reloads.

redman

06-16-2003, 12:45 AM

Sorry if i confused you guys but what Boiiinng said is what i meant. Chinball wizard I'm sick of ppl saying 'I mean no disrespect' and then they just disrespect you. Seriously get some balls and stop trying to not hurt ppl's feelings. You may have not understood what I said, but then again you should read a post properly before replying.

Fanible

06-16-2003, 01:56 AM

Originally posted by thebtskink
Just to resolve that date issue.... Morpheus believes it's close to 2199.... but really, it's much much further than that because of the 6 reloads.

Personally im leaning more towards this, just because they don't really have anyway of knowing the actual current date.

Anyways, this topic started out kinda interesting as I read down, but it turned into blah.

Martinnyg

06-16-2003, 08:33 AM

Yea it sucks when people just spamming with something not meant to be discussed in this thread :( But hey I just did it myself. Damn ;)

XtRaVa

06-16-2003, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by Boiiinng
wtf r u on about xtrava? redman means that if the current Matrix year is 1999, then the 02-18-98 date on the tracer call at the beginning of the film doesn't make sense, unless they were watching Neo almost a year before they freed him.

Actually it was a mis-read on my behalf, he used the term "first matrix" a little loosely, didn't know he meant the film, and not the first matrix.

I already assumed there were talking sometime before they freed neo, but I dont think it was a whole year, like I said i didnt even think it was a date at first, coz the way americans do the date a different way round, they say its november the 6th, wheras in england we say its the 6th of november (i.e. america: 11-06-03, england: 06-11-03) so thats why at first to me it just looked like port and connection details etc, rather than a date...

But everyone says its a date, so I really dont know what to say about the whole 12 months missing. I pointed out the fact that if its 19 months difference, and theres only been 7 months since that supposed first fone call, and the second one seen at the end of the first movie, it leaves an error of 12 months, so I dont know why redman posted this information again, considering I had already said it once.

This is why I thought he was talking about something different, but now I see he was just repeating previous posts =/

G-Matrix

06-16-2003, 06:25 PM

Yesterday I saw the matrix and I agree with Xtrava, posibly it takes place after revolutions, first of all He say that he can fell them just as we saw in reloaded, and he actually tell them that (in my humble opinion) he isn't goona freed the other human he's gonna show the the truth of the matrix...And I don't get it that about u where trying to explain of the 12 month of error

XtRaVa

06-16-2003, 06:40 PM

I dont have a way to explain the 12 month error. Or were you asking what the 12 month error is? Its the fact that the date on the end call in the first movie, is 19 months on from the call at the start of the movie. Theres only been a maximum of 7 months between the last call because we know reloaded takes place 6 months later...so that means theres a whole year missing, and would have to mean that the first fone call took place a year before they freed neo...but i dont think it did, so i dont know how to explain this.

bludemun

06-17-2003, 12:21 AM

How much time actually elapsed during The Matrix?

We know that Neo spent a portion of time recovering from being awakened. There's a comment made by Dozer about Neo "needing alot of work." The only evidence of time passing during this phase (when he's getting the acupuncture treatments) is that his hair grows back.

Maybe that's where the time went?

awakened

06-17-2003, 01:53 AM

i dunno...i've clipped my hair like that before and it grows back in a couple of weeks. if your saying that he's being worked on by dozer and company for months, then his hair would be like it is in reloaded. we'll find out soon enough though:applaud:

drbriefs

06-17-2003, 02:22 AM

yeah he's probably going to be revealing the truth to everybody and maybe the rest of the human species will use the matrix to their advantage (matrix online anybody?), instead of destroying it. perhaps by using the matrix, loading programs into their brains and such, they will have somesort of advantage in zion against the machines? i'm just rambling and maybe all of this was obvious, oh well.

XtRaVa

06-17-2003, 04:03 AM

I dont know how much time takes place during the first movie, I'd like to have some sort of timeline. Events in the movie make you think that only like 1 month has passed, and thats stretching it, it seems more like a week. Neos hair isnt all that long in the second, which is 6 months on...so I guess he cuts it short? lol.

Sparhawk

06-17-2003, 07:28 AM

Just gotta say - Awesome catch Martinnyg!

I've watched M1 more times than I care to mention but never noticed the dates on the trace logs.

I think the idea that the "phone booth speech" is actually @ the end of Revolutions is a decent thought.

hpk37067

06-17-2003, 10:18 AM

Well, now that I think about it, it does kinda make sense.

Riddle

06-17-2003, 06:11 PM

I think this is just a little mistake. I don't think this will ever be explained. It was just put in to have a proper ending to a single movie, with no immediate plans to make 2 more. It will probably be dropped and never be explained.

Martinnyg

06-18-2003, 06:09 AM

But the Wachowski's made the first movie as part of a trilogy. So they knew movie 2 and 3 were coming. :rolleyes:

XtRaVa

06-18-2003, 11:06 AM

The Wachowki Brothers like martin said always had the matrix as a trilogy, the first was just a pilot to see if it was liked, and then when warner bros saw it was awesome and worthwhile the wachowski bros came back with the other two basically. Thats why everything relates to everything as though it was made with the other movies in mind, because it was. So i dont know if it was a mistake riddle =/ But it might not ever be explained ur right...

Ghostofzion2003

06-18-2003, 12:45 PM

if this theory is true than truthfully we never saw neo fly in the first film and if thats true than the first time he flies is in reloaded after he beats the **** out of the 3 agents and they did make that scene really over dramatic making it really slow and making the ground ripple and whatnot so this could really true,

hpk37067

06-18-2003, 02:17 PM

Yeah, but they didn't seem too surprised to see him do that. Link was just making some comedy by saying he's doing the Superman thing. And Smith didn't seem too surprised by him flying away after the Burly Brawl.

logan350

06-18-2003, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by hpk37067
Yeah, but they didn't seem too surprised to see him do that. Link was just making some comedy by saying he's doing the Superman thing. And Smith didn't seem too surprised by him flying away after the Burly Brawl.

Of course not, if this theory is true that doesn't necessarily mean this is the first time Neo has flown. Supposedly 6 months have gone by since Neo realized his potential just because we didn't see what happened between those 6 months doesn't mean there was nothing going on.

hpk37067

06-18-2003, 05:39 PM

Yeah, I see your point. But when Neo said that he isn't going to show the end, but the beginning, and it begins with his flight. So it makes more sense that he learned how to fly, then he did the flying thing, then a couple months pass, and then Reloaded begins.

Martinnyg

06-19-2003, 01:46 PM

What I think is this: The Wachowski's wanted to have the phone call in the Matrix trilogy, but at the time they made the first one, they didn't know whether or not the sequels would be made. So they decided to have it in the first one even though it took place after revolutions.

Then they can always edit it out in future special editions. Then the first scene were Neo is flying in Reloaded would be the first time we actually see him flying, therefore they made it so dramatic. But it didn't have to be the first time ever that Neo was flying, so ergo it's ok for Link to make a joke about it.

freakyplatypus

06-19-2003, 02:05 PM

ergo? Ha!

hpk37067

06-19-2003, 02:10 PM

But they made his flight dramatic everytime. They did the ripple thing everytime he flew. And if it was the end of Revolutions, why would they make such a big deal of him flying?

Martinnyg

06-19-2003, 02:42 PM

Yea, they did the ripple thing everytime, but he was basicly just flying around in the clouds for a minute. And I don't really get your last question. But I don't think they made a big deal of him flyíng after the phone call.

Maybe the reason the earth didn't ripple after the phone call, is because he has become even more powerful after his unconsiousness (sp?) and intrapment in the Matrix.

hpk37067

06-19-2003, 02:47 PM

Remember when the Architect said that the One causes fluctuations even in the simplest equations? Well, gravity is a big thing on Earth, it keeps everyone on the ground. Very simple. Perhaps it's signifying that it is one of the simple equations in the matrix because it is so easy for the machines to do.

Boiiinng

06-19-2003, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by Martinnyg
What I think is this: The Wachowski's wanted to have the phone call in the Matrix trilogy, but at the time they made the first one, they didn't know whether or not the sequels would be made. So they decided to have it in the first one even though it took place after revolutions.

Then they can always edit it out in future special editions. Then the first scene were Neo is flying in Reloaded would be the first time we actually see him flying, therefore they made it so dramatic. But it didn't have to be the first time ever that Neo was flying, so ergo it's ok for Link to make a joke about it.

Nah, no special editions for these guys. They are telling their story the way they want to. But you're right about the first part, they didn't know how good the Matrix would do, so they put that in there as a tease. If it's true that this happens at the end of Revolutions, then it would be a great full circle linkage to close the trilogy, and therefore should be left in the film.

hpk37067

06-19-2003, 06:45 PM

I guess we'll never know until Revolutions comes out and all questions are answered.

Duh_McFly

06-19-2003, 11:10 PM

Are you guys saying that Neo flys off at the very end of Revolutions or near the end leading up to a showdown? I think the latter would be cool.

Fanible

06-20-2003, 08:54 AM

The speech at the end of the first movie was a nice end to a single movie. They put the speech in to have a conclusion to the story. This ending made it so that it could end that way and not need sequels.

No I don't think that speech is suppose to occur after Revolutions. It made sense after the first Matrix. He was basicly saying what hes going to do, which we will see in the second and third. He said he's going to show these people a world without you, but how much time that'll take, we don't know. And he has been freeing minds a lot since the first movie. So he has been doing just as he said he would with that speech.

As for editing out the whole flying thing? Who cares if we saw him fly at the end of the first movie. And could you imagine if we saw Neo fly for the first time in Reloaded? Honestly it would of more caught me off gaurd and it'd probably even give me a weird feeling.

Seeing him flying in the first one at the end was much better. We know he's able to defy the laws within the Matrix, that's all well and good. So we knew what he was able to do come in the second film. Im glad we knew he could fly from get the get go.