Who's Truely Caused The Fall Of The Republic.

[RedVader 2004]

Ok lets think about this question for a minute. Who truely was the cause of the rise of the Empire and the fall of the Jedi. Surely causing the Fall of the Republic. So my question really is this. Who was at fault that lead to the ruin of the jedi and to the end of peace and free will.
I will list 6 names and you will decide in your own opinion who was the major reason the empire took over.

1 Padma Amidala: She is the reason that palpatine gained his chancelor seat. She is the major temptation reason that anakin slips towards thing no jedi should think about. Her revealing tight clothes had to be hard for Anakin to resist.
2 Qui Gon Jinn: He had to bring along Anakin and Jar Jar.
3 Darth Sidius: Was too smart to have not used another to do what anakin did. So without anakin hew could have still taken down the jedi.
4Jar Jar: Well no explanation is needed for he is the one who gave Palpatine absolute power.
5 The Jedi Council; They didn't seem to listen to Obi Wan about anakin.
6 Obi Wan Kenobi: He could have been more like Qui Gon with Anakin. Maybe if he was more like a friend then a father. Maybe Anakin wouldn't have Betrayed his jedi friends.

[RedVader 2004]

Several will say its jar jar i am sure but Padma has alot to do with the down fall of the republic. After all she did leave jar jar in power. Jar Jar the touble maker representitive of Naboo. I will be fare and say Sidius had a very good manipulative plan. If you ask me Amidal is a big part of the fall of Ankain and the senate.

[Tornado]

You know, you can just reply in threads without creating a new one.

The fall of the Republic though? Palpatine obviously. He is the one who disbanded the Republic and formed the Empire. Is this really an opinionated question? Without Palpatine the Republic would have remained in tact (provided there wasn't some extreme circumstance).

[kel thuzad]

Palpatine - no question.
Some may say it was JarJar or i dont know who... but in the end, Palpatine would have always found some way to take over everything.

[neo5595]

Jar Jar.

Why did he have to vote emergancy powers to the chancelor :angry: . its all his fault :P .

[Nimrandir]

The result was made by events created by several people purposefully or not. They are all responsible. More than on the list. Yet, sideus is the one who is the most responsible. If you had to single out one person who had the most impact it would be him. But, almost all were need to do it.

[neo5595]

Actually it really was all Sideous. Everyone else who you may have think were also responsible(Padme, Jar Jar, ect.) are not because they were all minipulated by Palpatine. He really is the main cause for the forming of the galactic empire.

[Nimrandir]

True. He manipulated situations so that certain actions would follow. Yet, there were other ways that the others could have done. Manipulation is not total control. He might have found others, but would they have been so well. I think not. He is the driveing force, but all others were needed.

[Boro]

jar jar was only a puppet, if he wasnt there i'm sure that someone else would have filled his place.

[RedVader 2004]

I think the jedi council should have paid more attention to Obi Wans opinions in episode 2. For Obi Wan never believed he was the chosen one. Even though he may says it in episode 3. Anakin is the key to the down fall. In a way Padma, Obi and Sidius were the three main reeasons he turned. This is a serious question i posted. Some people have contributing factors in the rise of the empire. I think removing Villorum and Padma leaving Jar Jar in charge were two big mistakes on her part. She most likley didn't mean for it to happen. She was just and innocent victum. I know but she rushed to judgement to quickly on things.

[Nimrandir]

Such were te playing out of sequence of events that cause you to judge hastily. and behind it is Sidius. He is as the spider that holds togather the web. Without him there is nothing, yet he need evry stand of web to sustain his plot.

[Boro]

so anakin's turning to the dark side created the downfall of the republic? i had no idea that had anything to do with the manipulation of the seperatist movement, the creation of the clone army, or the emergency powers. i guess i learn something new everyday :)

[Nimrandir]

Anakin himself was not NEEDED by Sidius. He could have just as easily done the things himself, but it was easier for a slave, and the sith must be two. A right hand man is wanted and needed to a point.

[Drizzt240]

Jedi Council.

[Nimrandir]

By their inactivinty?

[Boro]

thanks for clearing that up :)

[Miasma]

I agree with Nimrandir-- Obviously Sidious was the one orchestrating it, but just like anything of such huge magnitude, there were many people at fault. The senate was not functioning effectively, people were frustrated, and Sidious took advantage of that. The Jedi were too arrogant, and their code/ethics were problematic, and again Sidious took advantage of it. In other words, Sidious saw openings through which he could work to achieve his master plan.

[Fanible]

I picked Jar Jar off the bat, because he's a big, stupid, annoying alien. That's my reasoning for the fall of the Republic. :meanie:

[Drizzt240]

Ah, I didn't see Jar jar on the list. I would of voted for him.

[Nimrandir]

The biggest problem I have with the Jedi Council is that they should have been more like Qui-gon. They were blind, they used the force wrong, and they were as you said arogant. Especially Mace.

[the1985evs]

Dunno

[RedVader 2004]

I think Obi Wan, Qui Gon end even Dooku saw the dangers more then the council did. They traveled the universe alot . To other places far away from Corusant. Qui Gon was proably the most knowledible of the jedi and he wasn't on the council. I think Sidius evil was so blinding on Corusant that If Yoda might have gotten some distence. Maybe then he could have used the force better.

Obi Wan looses alot in this trilogy. He tries his best to train Anakin. He not only looses a friend but is betrayed by his only padwan ever. To fight Anakin was probably a very hard thing to do for Obi. Dooku lost faith in the jedi council and thats why he turned. The death of Qui Gon turned him to the dark side. This story seems to be centered around Anakin. When i truely think its Qui Gon, Obi Wan and Yodas story.

The point of this thread was to ask the question if things were done differantly . Maybe then alot less suffering would have happened. My ramblings on this post mostly delt with the jedi its self. How the council was blinded and maybe weren't as focused on things like Obi Wan and Qui Gon were. I think in episode 3 making Obi a memeber of the council was to little too late.

[todd philip]

The Jedi Council did!

The Jedi Council was cocky, and arrogant, and they thought they where undefeatable!
They paid a heavy price for their arrogance.

[poeman]

its freakin qui gons fault... if he just waited for obi wan to gt back up they coulda taken out maul together.. so anakin coulda grown up liek a true jedi

FREAKIN MAUL its all your fault.. i envy his sabering but like i blame it more on qui gon

[Nimrandir]

I was upset at the way Obi-wan was treated in the prequels so far. He had almost no screen time in TPM, he didn't do anything good till the very end either in words or actions. And AOTC we don't get to see his kind side, his wisdom, or anything that Alec GUiness made him. He was cheated out of it, he seemed to be a little hard on Anakin in not explaining things just telling him. And his charecter was not the same, he just tokk evrything as he was told, it was totally unlike Sir Alec's Obi-wan. I really hope that things change in ROTS and we see his kind wise side, the Obi-wan of old. I know Ewan is capable of doing it if only Lucas would let him.

[gnarley]

Actually it really was all Sideous. Everyone else who you may have think were also responsible(Padme, Jar Jar, ect.) are not because they were all minipulated by Palpatine. He really is the main cause for the forming of the galactic empire.
I agree, he exploited everyone's weaknesses and manipulated them to his own gain.

[neo5595]

Exactly. If he didnt exsist, then the forming of the Empire would'nt have even come close to happening. Hes the puppet master pulling all the strings.

[RedVader 2004]

Obi Wan probably was kinder to Luke for he did not want to fail again. He most likely was heart broken over loosing Anakin. So he changed his ways. Perhaps the years of exile soften Obi. In episode 3 i believe Obi shows some pain of Anakin's betrail. He i believe gives Anakin a couple of chances to turn back. For Vaders says that Obi Wan once thought as Luke did. So there has to be a few parts where you see a softer Obi Wan but when he has no choice he must stop Anakin. So the jedi knight in Obi Wan takes over.

[Nimrandir]

Quite right I want that, but not his arogance.

[Andrey83]

Darth Sidious. I meen....is this a question? Take him out of the story and what would have happend?

Take the others out, and he would have found a way probably.

The others a mearly factors that participated. But he was the master mind behind it.

There aint no question about it.

[Karma Dog]

its freakin qui gons fault... if he just waited for obi wan to gt back up they coulda taken out maul together.. so anakin coulda grown up liek a true jedi

FREAKIN MAUL its all your fault.. i envy his sabering but like i blame it more on qui gon

Soooo.... are you blaming Qui Gon or Maul?

[Boro]

he is blaming you. all of your posts belong to me now.

[greatone1987]

it's the jedi council. If Windu hadn't prejudged ani then ani wouldn't be tempted by the dark side.

Then I would think it was sidious but he had forseen it happen so how could it be him!!!

[padawan331]

sidious

[poeman]

Soooo.... are you blaming Qui Gon or Maul?

yeah more like qui gons rush to find the chosen one or even that scene.. so i blame qui gon more but mauls part is critical cause if qui gon were still alive anakin would no way be a vader

[Andrey83]

Vader doesnt matter........................................palp atine doesnt need him.

[poeman]

Vader doesnt matter........................................palp atine doesnt need him.

he needs vader because hes tired of always using his hand to do the job :D

[Tornado]

..... are you guys still discussing this? It is all Palpatine's fault. Without him, it would have never happened. Sure, the Jedi didn't notice his faults, but, that's beside the point. Without Palpy, it wouldn't have happened. I mean seriously....... case closed.

[Frizzo the Clown]

he needs vader because hes tired of always using his hand to do the job :D
If he was tired of using his hand, maybe he just needed a date.