Why is George Lucas So **** foolish ??

[MarvelMania77]

He could have had it all, He could have been the best director of all time. He could have left a enduring image of himself as the ultimate visionary but noooooooooooo with the prequels we get

1.) Jar Jar binks

2.) The Worse Child actor I have ever seen (No offense jake but you should have stayed at home and played with your Star Wars toys.)

3.) Wooden acting all around....ie N. (Why did I do these movies) Portman.

4.) As of yet no true connections to the famous old movies.

5.) The Jedi was once believed to be few in number but all powerful, the prequels have reduced them to being weak, stupid, and peace keepers of a corrupt government.....Whattttttttt

6.) A battle between robots and clones...ie no blood, no true loss, no intense moments.

7.) C-3po taking up more screen time than the Jedi in a battle that was supposed to feature the Jedi in action for the 1st time on screen.

In other terms folks........George Lucas blew it and can he rediscover the Star Wars Magic in this next and last film, I really hope so but I doubt it because the 1st two prequels have blew too many holes into the timeline and the story arc itself....shameful..........:(

[Boro]

need a tissue?

[Xander]

-shrug- I never liked stars wars anyway.

[LordofKings]

so may i ask why your posting in a sw forum?

nice comment in the other thread too:rolleyes: Obvisously you have nothing better to do but sit in a SW FORUM, read what has been posted, and then make fun of those in here

[Andy_R]

I feel your pain, man. Not only does he screw us over by making these god-awful prequels, but he refuses to give us what we want and put the OT (not special ed.) on DVD!
That's just a big "F*** you" to all SW fans.

I wouldn't hold your breath on Ep 3. I mean, I hope it's good too. I'm just saying....it's probably gonna suck balls.

[Boro]

if you dont like it get the hell out of here

[LordofKings]

Exactly, stop complaining so much, about how GL doesn't like "you" or the "fans" and doesn't give you what you deserve.

Please tell me how GL owes "you" anything? Its his movie. Did you help him make it? So he owes only himself to do what he wants to it.

And how is it painful at what GL did with the prequels? Clearly some people liked Ep:1 and 2. Ep1 is what, in the TOP 5 of highest grossing films of all time. Some people seem to like these "kid films" which they are.

Do you go and complain about every movie you dislike on message boards? Or is it just SW?

And please tell me how GL screwed "us" (as you say) over? What did he do to screw "us" over by making movies all the fans ask for for so many years

[MarvelMania77]

I started this thread, if you dont like what I have to say then it is you who should leave. You can go and start a George Lucas kiss *** thread somewhere. This one is for those of us who have been lifelong Star Wars fans and who have been totally forgotten and burned by lucas himself. It seems to be that instead of taking what was good and great in the Old Movies and building on it to make good prequels. Lucas came up with a bunch of crap and inserted it into Episode one and two and made it all up as he went along without even referring to his old movies and then he rammed down our throats tons of state of the art special effects but which little plot, no backstory, thousands of nickle and dime mistakes and plotholes that continue to add up, and no suspense to keep us at the edge of our seats. I and many other old time star wars fans now have a very empty feeling. I really believe that Lucas had no backstory. That he had no real ideas and that he allowed talentless underhands who do not understand the essence of StarWars to create these two awful prequels.........

[Sock-Man]

I agree with you Marvel, it's just that this is a topic that ends up being discussed in just about every thread in this forum and it doesn't really need a thread to wind people up even more.

But sadly enough everything you said is true, apart from no true connections to the previous movies. I thought Tatooine was pretty well done in keeping in continuity with the original trilogy, including the Lars homestead.
Also, C3-PO's inclusion in the PT is utterly pointless.

[MarvelMania77]

We need a real connection, Think about this what if Alderran had been the main location in Episode one instead of Naboo. That would have instantly connected Episode four and Episode one and given the Empire its true reason for destorying the planet in A New Hope. We could have been interduced to Bail Organa in Episode One and we should have been interduced to Count Dooku in Episode One as well. Anakin should have been Lukes age when Q-Gon found him, not a little boy. That way he would have truely been a rebellious teen and it would have made more sense that he would become Darth Vader.

Of course there are many other things but I will mention them later.

[Boro]

doesnt matter. this thread has no business hear other then trolling. this is a star wars forum, not an anti starwars forum. u might as well just go to the lotr forum and say Peter Jackson ****ed up lotr and it would be the same thing.



to say that the PT has little plot is completely wrong. there is more of it and it is deeper. instead of just wanting to save the princess and blow up the death star there are rogue federations doing things on their own agenda all amidst a giant political war while there is a sneaky little puppeteer in the back ground fitting it all together.
the jedi arent any weaker or dumber. they were just ridiculously outnumbered in geonosis.

[Boro]

Originally posted by MarvelMania77
We need a real connection, Think about this what if Alderran had been the main location in Episode one instead of Naboo. That would have instantly connected Episode four and Episode one and given the Empire its true reason for destorying the planet in A New Hope. We could have been interduced to Bail Organa in Episode One and we should have been interduced to Count Dooku in Episode One as well. Anakin should have been Lukes age when Q-Gon found him, not a little boy. That way he would have truely been a rebellious teen and it would have made more sense that he would become Darth Vader.

Of course there are many other things but I will mention them later.


the aveage person is smart enough that they dont need things spelled out too see connections. bail organa and alderaan are both mentioned in episode one. if they would have used alderaan the sw universe would be alot smaller. the main events in the storyline arent going to just take place on 4 or 5 planets through out the series. if they did the scale of the movies would be much smaller. if you cant find a reason for blowing up alderaan you arent paying attention. dooku had no business in episode one. if they would have found anikan as an older more rebelious teen they wouldnt have even thought about training him as his turning to the darkside would have been unavoidable. it made plenty of sense why he became darth vader when he was a child in the movies. he is this innocent little kid taken away from his mother, and he is afraid of losing her. right away he gets feelings for the queen of naboo causing him to give in to emotions. then he gets trained and his abilities make him cocky and arrogant. then behind the scenes there is a sith lord egging him on feeding his ego that he is the best jedi and more powerful then the rest. next his mother gets killed and this pisses him off..... ofcourse none of this would make sense in sending anikin towards the dark side :rolleyes:

[MarvelMania77]

You do indeed make a few points however The Story does not focus on Sidious and his underhanded dealing's. Most people who do not pay attention may miss the little pointers that Lucas leaves thoughout the movie. The Focus in Episode One is the pointless and foolish Jar Jar Binks. There is No Action in Episode Two until the very end and C-3p0 dominates Screentime which could have went to the Jedi or Count Dooku.

Dooku is not built up as a villian, we do not even see him until near the end of Episode two and by that time it is too late for Chris Lee to save the Movie.

The essence of Star Wars is the battle of Good vs Evil. I dont think Lucas intended to create such a black and white type of series when he first made the OT however the results are clear. If you get away form the basic message of Good vs Evil in a Star Wars film, The Film will fail and fail utterly. The Prequels made a lot of money due to the loyality of Star Wars Fans who love the old movies not because We like the Prequels. I have found more to dislike about them then anything else.

[Necross]

I agree with one thing from both sides. Anti Prequels = Jar Jar.....why, why did he do that to us. For the Prequels = They are kick ass movies. :)

[Sock-Man]

I know what you mean. They should have had one bad guy throughout the whole prequels..

And the inclusion of Alderaan would have been a very good idea. It would have made the destroying of the planet much more dramatic in ANH.

[Boro]

true that sidious is not the focus of the movie, but that is the back story, when previously you said there was none. and that back story is more complex then anything in the OT.
jar jar isnt the focus of TPM, the possibility of qui gon finding the chosen one is. jar jar is just there for comical relief, which is what han solo did in the OT.

i do agree with you on C3PO at the end of AotC. i didnt like his screen time and i thought the whole switching bodies and heads thing was ridiculous.


the PT has the good vs evil thing too, but some parts of it are more in shades of black and grey as opposed to simply black and white. just by glancing at the films you'd say that republic=good, seperatists=evil. but it is more complex then that in the PT and it could very easily be argued that the seperatists are good and the republic is evil, and the jedi order is just a pawn of the republic.

[Sock-Man]

I don't mind the storyline of the PT. But I agree that the Jedi could have been made out a bit better. They're not exactly glorious or anything.

And as for Jar Jar, I'm sorry Boromir but don't mention him in the same breath as Han Solo. Han Solo has character and has a serious side to. He's the most interestring character of the OT and not just there for comic relief. Jar Jar is simply annoying, pointless and his 'comic relief' isnt even funny. It's just annoying childish slapstick.

[Boro]

heh, sorry about that sockman. i still think han is there for comic relief (mostly in rotj), but he is a hell of a lot more complex then jar jar is and has relevant involvement in the plot.


about the jedi, i still think they were powerful and stuff, but they were ridiculously out numbered on geonosis, probly more then 10 to 1.

[Sock-Man]

Yeah i guess they were, it just annoyed me that you saw so many of them going down in the background, without putting up much of a fight. If they'd gone down against an actual army then maybe I'd be more impressed, but they were just droids after all..

[MarvelMania77]

I agree completely with the previous post. It is a insult to everybody that Jar Jar was created. The one CGI mistake ruined Star Wars for me forever. To Compare him to Han Solo who is the best charater in the entire Star Wars Universe is totally insane. If it was not for Han Solo and Harrison Ford's acting in A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back I dont think we would even be talking about Star Wars now as the Movies would be in the same league as Buck Rogers or Star Trek.

Prepares this Backstory of the Emperor's rise to power should have been the mainstory and the discovery of Anakin should have been the backstory and the Movies would have turned out much better.

However as it is.........

1.) We get More Jar Jar Binks then Darth Maul
2.) We get More C-3p0 then Count Dooku, Boba Fett and Jango Fett put Together.
3.) We get more Anakin then Darth Vader.
4.) We get more droids then we do Jedi.
5.) We get No Sith Backstory.
6.) We get no main characters form the old movies at all, No Young Solo, No Falcon, No young Lando, No young tarkin.
7.) Two major battles and still we have no clue what they are fighting about....????

[Malitos_Sahkir]

The point of the prequels was to see Anakin, not Dark Vader... Even the most ignorant people know that, jesus...

[Necross]

You are right on most of those points but i still loved the movies. I only disagree with more Anakin than Darth Vader as being a problem. The whole focus of the prequels is the lead up to Darth Vader, he is supposed to appear in Episode III. I think it would have been dumb to have him appear any earlier.

[Boro]

"1.) We get More Jar Jar Binks then Darth Maul
2.) We get More C-3p0 then Count Dooku, Boba Fett and Jango Fett put Together.
3.) We get more Anakin then Darth Vader.
4.) We get more droids then we do Jedi.
5.) We get No Sith Backstory.
6.) We get no main characters form the old movies at all, No Young Solo, No Falcon, No young Lando, No young tarkin.
7.) Two major battles and still we have no clue what they are fighting about....????"

1. it makes more sense to have more jar jar then darth maul. at the beginning of the prequels nobody even knows the sith still exist.
2. what are the times for this and where are you getting this info from?
3. the focus of the prequel trilogy is anikan. just like luke was for the ot.
4. what are the times and where are you getting this from? and if this is just in battle then of course there would be more droid screen then jedi. the droids are actually soldiers.
6. it would be unrealistic to have all of the main characters from the OT in the PT. besides, we already have yoda, anikan, and obi wan. and in episode 3 we are getting tarkin and chewbacca.
7. the reason they are fighting in episode one is to regain naboo.
the reason they are fighting in AotC is to save anikan, obiwan, and padme initially, and then afterwards it is to drive out the seperatists and end the civil war.

[Sock-Man]

Ok I disagree with more Vader than Anakin. That would make the prequels pointless.

But you're right, there needed to me more Fetts and more Dooku. C3-PO had way too much screen time.

Another thing I disagree with is having young Solo and young Lando. That would have ruined it further IMO. It's another one of those things which makes the star wars universe seem so tiny and there's already way too much of that, i.e. Anakin making C3-PO, Chewbacca in ep3.

[MarvelMania77]

Just think for a minute. By Bringing the two trilogies together, it would not make the Star Wars Universe seem tiny at all.

1.) You say it makes more sense to have Jar Jar because noone knew the any Sith was living but featuring more of Darth Maul would have made a better movie. Giving Binks a major role made Episode one out to be a joke.

2.)We see the creation of C-3p0 by Anakin, We see C-3pO go though a major but pointless part of Attack of the Clones in which he is thrust into the first big battle of the Clone Wars. C-3p0 also has the only major line in the entire fight "Die Jedi Dogs" Give me a break, This took every bit of the intense drama of the battle away and ever left us feeling no emotion whatsoever when we see hundreds of Jedi falling dead or Jango getting beheaded.

3.) Is this the reason we have to suffer though Anakin rolling in the Grass on Naboo and struggling to kiss the beautiful N. Portman. I blame the failure of the kiss on Portman however, the two just do not seem to have much Spark together. How about sending a couple of bounty hunters after them of something instead of all of the waste of Naboo time......

4.) lame soldiers. Soldiers bleed, cry, and feel pain. Soldiers give up everything to fight for a cause they believe in, Soldiers die to better the lifes of those they are protecting and fighting for and to keep there people free. The Battle droids of Star Wars take away form the context of the movies themselves, we do not see a hint of a droid army in the Old Movies, It should have been the Republic Army made of mainly Humans and Jedi against the Clone Army created by Sidious, This would have made for a much more intense fight and Clone war.

5.) We do not know how Sidious became a Sith, We do not know where Maul came form, we do not know anything about the conflict between the Jedi and the Sith and it seems these answers are not forthcoming.

6.) No it would be right and it would have added depth to the prequels, it didnt have to be anything major. Something simple like seeing the Falcon fly by or seeing a young Solo gun someone down after a gambling match in the cantina right before Anakin and Obi-wan confront the Bounty Hunter.

7.) But nothing is explained about the CSA. What systems have left the republic, Why did they leave, who is pulling the strings, It appears that Sidious is playing both sides which could bring results in the next film but we are still left with two wasted films.

[Boro]

1. jar jar doesnt have a major role.
2. you havent answered my question.
3. yes, heaven forbid lucas would use screentime to build a relationship as opposed to mindless action.
4. you havent answered my question.
5. i didnt even comment on 5, i dont understand why you are still talking about this. if you want a sith back story read the EU
6. solo would be much younger, he woulndt be gunning down anybody. the falcon would have been wasted, it would appear as just another corellian chip.
7. you have completely ignored what i said. if you want more info on the seperatists read the books.

[Andrey83]

I do agree with you (threadmaker) on some of his points. As I dont like Jar Jar. I dont like that when you have an emotional scene where Jedi is dying suddenly C-3PO is showing up with a silly comment, i'd realy like more Jango, more Dooko. Etc. I could probably find alot of other stuff.

But on the other hand, they will never be changed to the way i want them, so i have just accepted them for what they are. And I do enjoy them as that too, but i could have enjoyed them even more....

What i dont agree on is throwing offencive comments around :)

[Necross]

Shut the **** up Andrey you stupid ass mother ****ing **** head.
;)

[MarvelMania77]

So becoming attacted to Q-Gon Jinn, and then have many key moments before becoming the general of the Gungan forces while having as much Screen time as Q-Gon and Obi-Wan and more then Anakin, Maul or Sidious is not a major role I dont know what is........

Episode One was actually good until Binks showed up, and Episode Two became good during the Dooku/Obi-Wan/Anakin/Yoda fight at the very end. That still leaves us with two wasted movies.

There are many, many unneeded parts with C-3po and each one ruin a key moment in the film.

Building a relationship is fine but the acting was wooden all the way though and it would not have been mindless action if Sidious had just sent a couple of Bad @$$ bounty hunters to kill the senator and Anakin had saved her instead of just rolling around in the grass with her.

[Andy_R]

Originally posted by LordofKings
Exactly, stop complaining so much, about how GL doesn't like "you" or the "fans" and doesn't give you what you deserve.

Please tell me how GL owes "you" anything? Its his movie. Did you help him make it? So he owes only himself to do what he wants to it.

And how is it painful at what GL did with the prequels? Clearly some people liked Ep:1 and 2. Ep1 is what, in the TOP 5 of highest grossing films of all time. Some people seem to like these "kid films" which they are.

Do you go and complain about every movie you dislike on message boards? Or is it just SW?

And please tell me how GL screwed "us" (as you say) over? What did he do to screw "us" over by making movies all the fans ask for for so many years

Obviously, we will never agree on many levels.
First of all, the only reason GL is so filthy rich is because of fans like me, fans that were there to watch the movies the first time around. If not for us, GL would never have had the money or resources to even make the prequels. I don't think it's too much to ask to give us the OT on DVD. There are a lot of people that agree with me on this.

I apologize if I offended you with my prequels comment. I didn't realize that not all opinions are welcome here. The prequel debate has been discussed ad nauseum on every online forum. I don't have anything new to add to the debate, so I don't want to get into it. I stand by my opinion though.

Andy

[MarvelMania77]

Lucas does not care about the fans that made him a billionare, we are lower than dirt to him.

[LordofKings]

Yeah, sure Marvel, why don't you continue crying about how bad these films elsewhere. Why are you on here complaining. Don't you have a job or something.

Lucas doesn't owe any fan s**t. How did you make him a billionaire? Did you write the films? NO. You get what you earn! Lucas HIMSELF, not you or your friends, wrote or director or produced star wars. Lucas has every right to change/leave as or do whatever he feels best TO HIS FILMS.

Get over it!

And if you don't like the Prequels, why are you spending so much time crying about them? Every film you hate do you cry over on messageboards?

BTW, great points Boromir. The story is way more complex in the PT.

And i bet some people would have liked the same thing to happen in ep:1-3.

1) A rescue mission
2) A bad guy throughout all 3 films wearing a metal suit
3) Good guys win.

That would have made people like Marvel happy. It seems from your arguements you what everything that happened from the OT, well its not the same story

[Sock-Man]

I agree with alot of what you've said Marvel, but I still disagree with seeing a young Solo or whatever. It would just be a pointless cameo, it's not needed. And we already saw Corellian ships in AOTC, which are as good as the Millennium Falcon.

But I also agree with what else has been said, that we should just accept them for what they are. I just find it a shame that Lucas spent too much time making them too serious with a weird political storyline and forgot that Star Wars should just be a fun adventure movie.
The prequels are not good movies.. you read almost any review given to them and they're rated average at best. But because I'm an obsessed Star Wars fan I enjoy them just for being star wars (though less-so with phantom menace)..

[fineus fog]

I truky believe (as an older gentleman of 26) that the only reason this guy is *****ing is cos the PT arent the same as the OT he remembers as a kid.
Im in the same position where the magic doesnt happen for me when I watch the PT (but I still think they're ****ing cool movies, just lacking that elusive x factor) but the reason is cos I'M ****ING 26 YEARS OLD NOW NOT ****ING 5 YEARS OLD!!!
Everything is amazing when you're young and when you try to relive it, its not the same.
Stop trying to relive your childhood SW memories Marvel, I've grown up since then, you probably have too and I d say GL has too.
I agree that GL is not the best director ever but he's the best man for THIS job.
Let him be and whine about him somewhere else.

[LordofKings]

Im sure, as im 18 now, that if they say a LOTR prequel trilogy, or another SW trilogy, that it would not be the same to me, because as you age, your views and likes change as well.

My dad loves the OT more then he loves me (j/k) and he likes the PT, but not nearly what the OT is to him, because its been over 20 years of imagining what Anikan was like and waiting for these movies, and he has changed as his likes and such.

[Bond AK 45]

I think the reason he has all these problems is because when he made the OT, because of the limits on technology and $, he had to make the story his #1 priority. Now when he gets to this day and age, and because of the success of the first 3 films, he now has the $ and the technology to do the shots he wants.. But I think since he had limits on the Special FX on the OT, he wants to use CGI alot to make it like he wanted to. But IMO, I think its gotten to his head to much... I mean, look at AOTC; outstanding special FX... But look at the story / acting...YEEEHHH..HORRIBLE. I think he has to settle down and make sure that in EPI III, he makes STORY #1, FX#2

[flukeman]

Guys, this is the SW forum, not just the "I love SW and anyone who has a complaint about it shouldn't post here" forum. Marvel has some very valid complaints and he has stated his opinion well, unlike so many of the "prequels suck ass" comments we see without any substance to back them up.

I agree with much of what Marvel has said in fact. And about fans complaining only because they aren't getting the magic they had back in the theater in 1977, that's not true for eveyone who dislikes the prequels. I first saw the OT broadcast on a small fuzzy TV 10 years ago. I had seen better special fx by then, but the story is what got to me, the story and the characters. That's something the PT has really failed to provide so far IMO. That's why I own the OT and feel compelled to watch it again and again, and why I don't own the PT and have only seen both movies twice.

I think it's a very valid argument to say that the PT for the most part does not capture that SW feeling. After all, it is supposed to be SW.

And I don't understand how some people can say "the movies belong to Lucas, he can do what he wants with them, he doesn't owe the fans anything, we just have to accept what he gives us, and if we don't we're not real SW fans." It's a load of crap IMO. I feel that because I am a SW fan, I shouldn't accept mediocrity in this telling of the PT. It should have been an awesome story, and it deserves better.

[Sock-Man]

Nicely said Flukeman :)

I think what it all comes down to is enjoyment-factor. The OT doesn't take itself too seriously and is entertainment all the way through. The PT has a supposedly more in-depth storyline but it just isn't enjoyable. They drag on and they don't have the spark that actors like Harrison Ford and iconic characters like Darth Vader gave it.

[Andrey83]

Originally posted by Bond AK 45
I think the reason he has all these problems is because when he made the OT, because of the limits on technology and $, he had to make the story his #1 priority. Now when he gets to this day and age, and because of the success of the first 3 films, he now has the $ and the technology to do the shots he wants.. But I think since he had limits on the Special FX on the OT, he wants to use CGI alot to make it like he wanted to. But IMO, I think its gotten to his head to much... I mean, look at AOTC; outstanding special FX... But look at the story / acting...YEEEHHH..HORRIBLE. I think he has to settle down and make sure that in EPI III, he makes STORY #1, FX#2

Actually i wouldnt go as far as saying that the speical effects where outstanding, but they where good yes.

[LordofKings]

I still don't think and never will think that GL owes any of us, the fans, anything.

Does Spielberg have to repay us for where he is today or did he get there on talent? Did Michael Jordan become who he was because of hs fans or because of his skills?

YOU GET WHAT YOU EARN! Period. GL is where he is today because of the Films he wrote. And on the point of GL would not be where he is today without his fans, GL directly a film that got him a oscar nod for directing before SW came out, so HE WAS MADE BEFORE YOU, THE FANS, HELPED HIM GET WHERE HE WAS. Even without Star Wars, he would have been successful, even if just as a producer (ex: Indiana Jones). So, NO, the fans did not make GL who he is today, GL made himself who he is today, just like Jordan and Spielberg

If you think he owes you something, he has given you countless hours of entertainment, and great joy and love with the OT (and for some the PT) and you have given him billions. EVEN!

And for those who say you deserve a better PT, how the hell do YOU deserve a better PT? What did YOU do, or the fans do, to DESERVE a better PT? Could you have written better? Could you have made better films? If you could i don't think you would be on this site now. GL wrote the films, and if you don't like them, fine, just don't watch the PT and ignore the fact they exist, but you don't deserve better. ITS GL STORY AND HE GETS TO TELL IT/WRITE IT/DIRECT IT however he wants to do

[MarvelMania77]

Indeed, My complaint is with George Lucas himself. Not with the fans who like or dislike the prequel trilogy. I really believe the Lucas failed us. He completely failed the base that made him who he is today. We could have laughed at the first Star Wars. We could have stayed home and not spent a penny on the movie, the books, or the toys. Afterall the Special effects were horrible in 1977 but they were believeable for that time, what made that 1st star wars was the story was the basic concept of Good vs Evil, and the knowledge that Good prevails no matter what the cause. That makes it a human story and that is why humans on a mass scale are attracted to it. However had we stayed away, Lucas would be a bum living on the streets known only for TX 1000 or whatever and some Buck Rogers remake. These prequels do indeed fail to deliver on what Star Wars is. They fail to bring us that natural magical feeling that gives us chills every time we see Darth Vader in Empire, or hear that classic John Williams theme music in A New Hope, or the great acting of Harrison Ford. It was stated eariler that Lucas grew up, if that is true, Why did he invent Jar Jar Binks, Why did he thrust C-3p0 in the middle of a most important battle in a time we were supposed to see the true power of the Jedi. Why did he make Anakin a small child and then have him fall in love with a woman he had not see in 10 years. The Love story would have worked had they started building it in the Phantom Menace and made Anakin older. That brings me to the Titles, Why did Lucas call the movie Attack of the Clones, The Phantom Menace is not a great title but alright but AOTC, Terrible, just Terrible. Why did lucas make one of the most popluar Bad guys Boba Fett, A Clone instead of giving him a real backstory. Why didnt Lucas add somewhere like a Han Solo in the prequels to fill that empty role and a villian like Vader to fill that Black hole as well.......In hindsight, it does seem that Lucas is trying to destory his own creation so he will fade form our memory and not be known for Star Wars at all.........

[LordofKings]

Your an idiot if you think Lucas would be a bum if it had not been for Star Wars. Did you forget he was nominated for Best Directed for American Gafretti (sp?) before Star Wars ever came out.

I highly doubt a Nominated Director would have been a bum.

And again, you are asking for the exat same thing in the PT as the OT. ITS A DIFFERENT STORY! THERES ARE DIFFERENT CHARACTERS!

And Lucas, NOT YOU, is telling the story the way he wants to, because ITS HIS STORY.

All your crying about is that this PT is not what the OT is, and you know what, ITS NOT BECAUSE ITS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT STORY!

He should have done this, he should have done that:rolleyes: when you write a movie that makes you a billionaire, then you can do what you think is best for the films, ok bub

"Why did he do this" "why did he do that" THE ANSWER - ITS HIS MOVIES AND HIS STORY TO TELL, THATS WHY.

Why don't you write what you though the PT should have been like, then post them, well read them, and see if you have any talent other then crying because you didn't get what you wanted to in these films.

Like i said before, you probable would have been happy if the Trilogy of the PT was structured like the OT;
1) A rescue of a Princess, and Han Solo's son with the exact traits as his father
2) A Metal suit wearing bad guy
3) Bad guy turns good in the end and good guys win.

Then you would have been happy:rolleyes:

[MarvelMania77]

Ok, you asked for it, I will give you my version of the Prequel trilogy in its own thread.

Remember I violate no copyrights.....This is simply fan art of the highest quailty......Stay tuned !!!!!

[eclipsedman]

Originally posted by LordofKings
Your an idiot if you think Lucas would be a bum if it had not been for Star Wars. Did you forget he was nominated for Best Directed for American Gafretti (sp?) before Star Wars ever came out.

I highly doubt a Nominated Director would have been a bum.

And again, you are asking for the exat same thing in the PT as the OT. ITS A DIFFERENT STORY! THERES ARE DIFFERENT CHARACTERS!

And Lucas, NOT YOU, is telling the story the way he wants to, because ITS HIS STORY.

All your crying about is that this PT is not what the OT is, and you know what, ITS NOT BECAUSE ITS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT STORY!

He should have done this, he should have done that:rolleyes: when you write a movie that makes you a billionaire, then you can do what you think is best for the films, ok bub

"Why did he do this" "why did he do that" THE ANSWER - ITS HIS MOVIES AND HIS STORY TO TELL, THATS WHY.

Why don't you write what you though the PT should have been like, then post them, well read them, and see if you have any talent other then crying because you didn't get what you wanted to in these films.

Like i said before, you probable would have been happy if the Trilogy of the PT was structured like the OT;
1) A rescue of a Princess, and Han Solo's son with the exact traits as his father
2) A Metal suit wearing bad guy
3) Bad guy turns good in the end and good guys win.

Then you would have been happy:rolleyes:

All this coming from someone who likes the fullscreen version of LOTR over the Widescreen real version. Hehe no just messing with you LOk, I agree I will be very happy when I get my OT dvd's and I like the PT.

[LordofKings]

For a second i thought you weren't joking Eclipse;)

*wipes sweat from forehead*

But in all seriousness, George Lucas did the work, wrote and directed Star Wars - A New Hope, wrote the other films, so HE HIMSELF earned what he has today.

Plus, most, am im sure Marvel does, forget that GL has revolutionized Sound in film, and has bult an Effects Powerhouse. So his fortune doesn't come from just Star Wars.

He is a business genious, and even without Star Wars he would be VERY WEALTHY and Successful

[MarvelMania77]

Uh you are missing the point that the money earned in A NEW HOPE, which at the time shattered every known glass ceiling in the movie industry caused a major revolution is the way movies are made created the resources for Lucas to build ILM........

I do give Lucas credit for building ILM, without it we could not have the effects and CGI or the movies we have today.

[LordofKings]

But even without Star Wars, Lucas was an Oscar Nominated Director, who would have went on to do Indiana Jones (lots of money, and started ILM then) or would have done something else, and maybe even won an Acadamy Award.

So my point, is that even without Star Wars, Lucas still could have created and done what he has done with sound, and would still be greatly wealthy and successful (hell, he was already successful before star wars)

[MarvelMania77]

Lucas only had a lot to do with the Temple of Doom, the 2nd Indy enstallment and the worst one. Lucas handed all the rights to S.S in the other two and they cant seem to agree on the basics of Indy four which is the reason its production has been sidelined for now.......

[LordofKings]

But he still created the character and story right? for all 3, right? He served as producer on all 3 right? Don't take the credit away from the man.

[flukeman]

LoK, are you saying that even if Lucas had created the most ridiculous storyline or event in the PT, for example, maybe Jar Jar had done a dance number for the queen, I don't know - even then you wouldn't have a problem just because it's GL's story and he can do what he wants with it? I find it hard to believe that fans should just sit back and love whatever they get.

I realize that it belongs to George Lucas, and I think he is a brilliant man to come up with SW in the first place, create ILM, manage to get it made and have so much success. He got it done with his own industriousness, and I applaud him for it. I used to idolize him so that I used to want to work at ILM. But he's not infallible, and I think fans have every right to have expectations, simply based on the quality of the previous works.

[LordofKings]

Originally posted by flukeman
LoK, are you saying that even if Lucas had created the most ridiculous storyline or event in the PT, for example, maybe Jar Jar had done a dance number for the queen, I don't know - even then you wouldn't have a problem just because it's GL's story and he can do what he wants with it? I find it hard to believe that fans should just sit back and love whatever they get.

I realize that it belongs to George Lucas, and I think he is a brilliant man to come up with SW in the first place, create ILM, manage to get it made and have so much success. He got it done with his own industriousness, and I applaud him for it. I used to idolize him so that I used to want to work at ILM. But he's not infallible, and I think fans have every right to have expectations, simply based on the quality of the previous works.

Even if Jar Jar did a dance number, i would always stand by MY OPINION thats these are GL's films and he can do what he wants and tell the story how he wants (hell there was a dance number in ROTJ)

Would i like the films? No, if they had dance numbers and were horrible, i would not like them but i would still say GL can do what he wants since hes the writer and director

Fans should not sit back and like everything, but if you like it you do, and if you don't, fine.

Fans can have expectations, thats fine, but just because the films don't meet your "expectations" which prob have been building for some years doesn't mean GL should die.

Many like the OT because there was no expectations and there was HUGE expatations with the PT, and people are let down, but saying YOU deserve better is pathetic, because no fan did anything to help the star wars story out.

Sit back, watch it, and decide if you like it or not

[Frizzo the Clown]

The thing is, if we all stood by and said "its this person's film, they can do with it however the hell they want," then why do we all bother to come here and discuss movies? Because, afterall, its thier movie, and can do with it however they want..so whats the point of congregating to discuss them?

[Andy_R]

The argument that "they're his movies, and he can do whatever he wants" is weak.
I'm not saying he can't change anything. It's a free country and he's free to do what he wants with his films.
At the same time, I'm free to critique what he does.

[flukeman]

I certainly agree with you that GL has the right to tell his own story, and he certainly shouldn't die for it as some fanatical fans have said.

I still say that the fans did have a large part in making Star Wars a success. Perhaps saying we deserve better is putting it in the wrong terms, but still - the prequels could have been much better movies.

And that's very true Frizzo.

[LordofKings]

No one is saying you can't critique them, but you have to see (i hope you see) that their GL's films, what he does is not right or wrong, just what wants to do. What he does may be wrong to you but thats really does not matter because your not making the films.

No, the arguement that GL has disgraced fans and sold out and has ripped off Star Wars fans is pathetic and weak

[LordofKings]

Originally posted by flukeman
I certainly agree with you that GL has the right to tell his own story, and he certainly shouldn't die for it as some fanatical fans have said.

I still say that the fans did have a large part in making Star Wars a success. Perhaps saying we deserve better is putting it in the wrong terms, but still - the prequels could have been much better movies.

And that's very true Frizzo.

Yes, they could have been better movies, but their what they are, why cry over what they aren't?

Saying you deserve better is not the right term, your right, perhaps saying you WISH and LONG for better, and expect better is correct, but then again, expectations are rarely meet.

Saying the fans made star wars is a fact, but then again, the fans made Speilberg, and all other successful films then.

YOU GET WHAT YOU EARNED! Saying the fans made Star Wars is like saying the Fans made Michael Jordan and not his talent. Not one person forced you to go see Star Wars, but you did it for your entertainment.

Perhaps you should thank GL for giving such enjoyment....

[flukeman]

Originally posted by LordofKings
What he does may be wrong to you but thats really does not matter because your not making the films.

Then why have movie critics? Why have any opinion at all if it's not going to matter because "whatever the filmmaker did was right and you can't say anything about it"? Filmmakers make movies so audiences can see them - if they didn't care what people thought about them, they would just make them and watch the finished product by themselves in their basements. Most films are made with an audience in mind, so I don't think that statement really holds up.

Yes, a filmmaker has the right to do what they want, but that doesn't mean a fan doesn't have the right to say it's terrible.

[LordofKings]

I never said that it wasn't right to say its terrible. My whole thing is:

You may not like the story, the movie itself, but it doesn't matter because you can't change what he's doing. Thats my point. Yes, this is a weak argument, and opinions count, but as far as telling the story and whether GL is right/wrong for what he did, it can't be changed by fans and the fans have no say, so it doesn't matter to anyone except the one telling the story (if you understand what i just said because i kind of don't even)

But yes, that arguement is weak, ill give you that, but so is the argument that the fans deserve better. I still want to know how the fans deserve better? What did they do to deserve better? And define better in this case? And why do people have so much hate towards GL because he made films they don't like? Thats just pathetic.

You don't see me going around crying about how awful Some of these "Old Classics" are that i hate, well i only do that when im attacked as i have been in other threads and need to defend my own opinions

[flukeman]

Originally posted by LordofKings
Yes, they could have been better movies, but their what they are, why cry over what they aren't?

Saying you deserve better is not the right term, your right, perhaps saying you WISH and LONG for better, and expect better is correct, but then again, expectations are rarely meet.

Saying the fans made star wars is a fact, but then again, the fans made Speilberg, and all other successful films then.

YOU GET WHAT YOU EARNED! Saying the fans made Star Wars is like saying the Fans made Michael Jordan and not his talent. Not one person forced you to go see Star Wars, but you did it for your entertainment.

Perhaps you should thank GL for giving such enjoyment....

That was a little condescending....

I have thanked him, many many times by watching and loving his movies.

I'm just not the kind of person to sit back and say, well, I didn't really like those movies, but hey, at least they're Star Wars so I'm going to be happy with what I got. I'm not crying over anything - I just can't be complacent with what I feel is a mediocre product.

[flukeman]

I never argued that I could change what he's doing, and I never said that I deserve better - just that the movies could have been better. And that's what a movie forum is for.

I think we're just going to have to disagree on this one.

[LordofKings]

Ok, but why do you feel you have to talk about how awful the films are to you (not just you, but everyone who comes in here and beats this "prequels suck stuff to death")?

I don't go in and get in these elebrate discussions about how i thought Revolutions sucked, and how it was so disappointing.

And again, i never ever said you have to like the films jus because their Star Wars, but you can't do anything to change the story or the way its told, so just except them for what they are and not what you wish them to be. If you don't like them fine, i like them, NO ONE IS WRONG HERE. these are our opinions and values, and where all entitled to them. THIS REALLY IS A POINTLESS DEBATE

[LordofKings]

Originally posted by flukeman
I never argued that I could change what he's doing, and I never said that I deserve better - just that the movies could have been better. And that's what a movie forum is for.

I think we're just going to have to disagree on this one.

I think so to.

Also, i really think I misread and mistook some of your comments, and maybe you did the same to mine.

[LordofKings]

Also, i'd like to say, i have a very hard time expressing my thoughts into words, esp on a message board, so lots of time what i want to say isn't exactly clear and i say the same things over again and i sometimes condescend myself

[flukeman]

Probably. That's the trouble with online communication.

And, it may seem like I do, but I really don't come in here to bash the prequels all the time. I haven't even been in here that much. I just feel the need to respond when something is posted that I feel strongly about, and that usually ends up being the prequels :)

[LordofKings]

I know, but you have to understand, we get some much "DIE GL" crap in here, that its hard to tell the mature posters from the not mature posters, and where pretty defensive about the PT because of this, and with EP:3 looming tall in the distance.

Were just on edge, well i am, so i sometimes come off harsh on this as well

[flukeman]

No problem. I just love my OT :)

Friends?

[LordofKings]

Always:)

[flukeman]

Cool :)