Since Angel is being cancelled I call for a show devoted to Spike! [Archive]

WhiteWerewolf

05-08-2004, 09:17 AM

i said this once, ill say this again. spike wont work for a spin-off.

he doesnt have a reason for a show. the reason while angel worked was because it was about redemption. buffy worked because it dealt with problems teenagers delt with on their way to adulthood.

spike doesnt have anything like that. he's never been about redemption, a souled vampire show just happened. he has no friends to work with for another show.

what would the spike show be about? it needs a theme. i cant honestly see a theme working for spike. because everything he could do as a theme has been done by angel.

like it or not, joss made spike angel 2.0. he became a marty-sue. he can do no wrong. he's the vampire messiah.

sorry you might disagree. but i dont see a spike show ever working.

joss has tried the spin-off card alot lately. he tried for a SIT, a faith, a giles, a willow/andrew spin, among other spin-off ideas. nothing ever came into light.

the only thing right now you might see is the buffy animated. NB said he'd do the voice recently.

white werewolf

hei1spawn1

05-08-2004, 01:21 PM

Umm what he said ^^^

spikethebloody

05-08-2004, 01:56 PM

Oh ye of little faith. Spike as a vampire with a chip was 10 times better than spike with a soul i will give you that. But a spike show could be the artisitic avenue that needs to be explored. Who said a show needs a theme? Did Seinfeld need a theme? Although i would say that since Tru Calling is all but over Eliza Dushku might want a shot at "Faith". I think Spike would be a perfect foil for her. Both are seeking redemption without brooding. They would make a good team. But a spike show has potential IMHO. You people need to broaden your horizons. Spike is the best character the show ever produced. He could have his own show.

WhiteWerewolf

05-08-2004, 02:20 PM

spike has never been about redemption. he never wanted it. he never seeked it. why would joss do another show about redemption. its beeting a dead hourse. and brooding is not enough of a reason for another redemption show to form.

seinfeld had a theme. it was nothing. a show about nothing. every show has to have a theme for a larger scaled journey.

eliza has said that in past interviews once TC was over, she wanted to go to school.

bottom line

spike is NOT the best character the show produced. thats only ur opinion. to each person who watched BTVS and ATS, they have a favorite character. to you, its spike. fair enough. but dont say he is the best character the show produced.

i dont have one favorite character, i have two. buffy and xander. i dont go around saying that they are the best characters the show produced.

buffy and xander have flaws. they are human beings who make mistakes. they are not marty-sue and mary-sue. spike is.

and plus, every year of angel and buffy had a theme. theres not much you can do for a theme whene you have a show with two vampires with a soul. angel's theme this year was insecurities. angel was always pointed to be the vampire with the soul. along comes spike and angel would automatically wonder what would happen to him now that there were two.

and it also seems that all vampires can be redeemed. harmony stopped drinking blood from people. that means any vampire can be redeemed. soon, vampires would probably be labled as undead americans or vampiric challenged.

white werewofl

spikethebloody

05-08-2004, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by WhiteWerewolf
spike has never been about redemption. he never wanted it. he never seeked it. why would joss do another show about redemption. its beeting a dead hourse. and brooding is not enough of a reason for another redemption show to form.

seinfeld had a theme. it was nothing. a show about nothing. every show has to have a theme for a larger scaled journey.

eliza has said that in past interviews once TC was over, she wanted to go to school.

bottom line

spike is NOT the best character the show produced. thats only ur opinion. to each person who watched BTVS and ATS, they have a favorite character. to you, its spike. fair enough. but dont say he is the best character the show produced.

i dont have one favorite character, i have two. buffy and xander. i dont go around saying that they are the best characters the show produced.

buffy and xander have flaws. they are human beings who make mistakes. they are not marty-sue and mary-sue. spike is.

and plus, every year of angel and buffy had a theme. theres not much you can do for a theme whene you have a show with two vampires with a soul. angel's theme this year was insecurities. angel was always pointed to be the vampire with the soul. along comes spike and angel would automatically wonder what would happen to him now that there were two.

and it also seems that all vampires can be redeemed. harmony stopped drinking blood from people. that means any vampire can be redeemed. soon, vampires would probably be labled as undead americans or vampiric challenged.

white werewofl

No character on BTVS or Angel progressed like Spike. He started out as a pure villian. He progressed into a antihero then into a genuine hero. It was pure art. Spike helped buffy as a vampire without a soul or chip. He also nearly killed her many times. He and Adam as a team were the funniest thing in Season 4. His love for buffy caused some of the poignant, tragic, and funny scenes in season 5. The buffy/spike romance was one of the best things about season 6. And in 7 he became a hero greater than angel. Anyone who has seen episode three season 1 of angel can testify that spike/james marsters is funnier, cooler, and a better actor than Angel/David Boreanaz. Xander is very cool don't get me wrong and Buffy is my personal favorite chick in the world.

WhiteWerewolf

05-08-2004, 02:49 PM

alright, so we have a villian who progressed into an antihero and for the sake of this debate, it was art. i dont beleive it, but its okay for you.

please, lets not get into shipper wars. i dont like spuffy, never did. never thought it was good for either of the characters.

season 4 and some of season 5 spike was funny. i loved spike as a villian. but once he had his buffy dream, he became a stalker, he had a buffybot built. thats just plane sick.

like it or not, alot of people dislilked season 6. the last two seasons of BTVS sucked. UPN should never of bought the show. it should of ended with buffy's sacrifise.

spike is not a hero.

how many times have spike saved the world? once. how many times had angel? alot more then once.

i liked the way spike and angel play off each other. but i dont see a spin-off of spike working. that's just me.

spikethebloody

05-08-2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by WhiteWerewolf
alright, so we have a villian who progressed into an antihero and for the sake of this debate, it was art. i dont beleive it, but its okay for you.

please, lets not get into shipper wars. i dont like spuffy, never did. never thought it was good for either of the characters.

season 4 and some of season 5 spike was funny. i loved spike as a villian. but once he had his buffy dream, he became a stalker, he had a buffybot built. thats just plane sick.

like it or not, alot of people dislilked season 6. the last two seasons of BTVS sucked. UPN should never of bought the show. it should of ended with buffy's sacrifise.

spike is not a hero.

how many times have spike saved the world? once. how many times had angel? alot more then once.

i liked the way spike and angel play off each other. but i dont see a spin-off of spike working. that's just me.

Sorry but we are full fledge into the shipper wars now! But first how about a reality check. Spike helped Buffy save the world against angel in season 2. He helped save the world in season 4 when the three demons tried to open the hellmouth. Spike helped fight glory and protect dawn in season 5. Spike helped the scoobies when he thought buffy was gone forever which means he did it because he wanted to not to impress buffy who was dead. Now granted when he had no soul his help of buffy was all in the name of impressing her. But he helped nonetheless. In season 7 he very much was a hero. When he had no soul and no chip he very much was an antihero. Now for this shipper war. I hope you aren't suggesting that angel and Buffy were good for each other. Spike was in love with her and she treated him like crap. As i stated earlier he helped her sister and friends when she died. He had a decent side. He always was there for her. Her relationship with spike was a little twisted at times but it was more mature and had more potential than her relationship with angel which was romeo and juliet-esqe. It had no hope. He couldn't be happy or he would try to kill her. Spike is the better boyfriend. He was more loyal and do you think Angel would have put up with the treatment spike did? Do you think Angeleus with a chip would have helped protect dawn?

WhiteWerewolf

05-08-2004, 03:57 PM

im done arguing about spike saving the world. i give up. you like spike. fine. thats alright. i dont like waht spike became. thats fine for me. its likely i wont change your mind, and you prolly wont change my mind.

i dont like spuffy. i dont like bangel. i dont like any human/demon relationships. they dont work.

im a full fledged BXer. i have been since season 1.

Xander and Buffy would've worked.

if you looked at the way xander and buffy were acting
and how their characters were invented, you can see
them playing well of a each other.

yes, xander has seen himself as a loser. yes, he has
been pushed aside, and yes he needs a girlfiend who
can help get passed what his parents made xander felt.
xander was always shown to have insecurities which
was one of his major problems.

buffy was always someone who wanted to have the normal
life. she always wanted to leave the slayer part of
her life behind. she needed someone who would stay
with her, someone who wouldnt abandon her. someone
who could love her, Buffy Anne Summers and her slayer
half. she needed to be loved as a whole.

with xander, buffy could finally be happy with no
outside destiny attached. she could have the man that
didnt have to be seperated from humanity. she could
have a man that could give her children. she could
have a man who loves her unconditionally like her
mother, giles, and dawn.

she has a numerous amount of crushes on characters
that looked like xander. scott hope and parker. she
has thanked xander in a number of ways for saving her
life, and by series end, xander was the only man that
she trusted with her life. no one other than him has
betrayed her. and if you bring up the lie in season
2, you need to realize that xander made a judgement
call. he needed to have buffy at her top to take down
angelus. if he didnt lie, buffy has shown time and
time again to stall for her lovers. angelus wouldve
won.

with buffy, xander would still feel like a loser, yes.
and try to help beyond anything. alexander itself
means helper. but one thing about buffy is that she
always is there for her lover. she always tries to
make her relationships last. she wouldve made xander
see his true self. she wouldve made xander reawlize
that he is not a loser, and that he never was. buffy
wouldve also trained him in order for him to survive.

if buffy wanted xander to live, she would help him
beyond anyway she can.

both buffy and xander are humans who have troubled
pasts. xander had a bad homelife, and buffy went
through divorce and lost alot of male influences in
her life.

they need eachother to become better people, stronger
people.

White Werewolf

spikethebloody

05-08-2004, 04:14 PM

Xander and Buffy would never have worked! Sometimes you are in a friend zone and you can never get out of it. It was just never meant to be. Spike did save the world. What do you call him being tortured by glory and not telling her that dawn was the key? Or fighting the doc trying to save Dawn? Xander was cool but remember he betrayed Anya at the altar and he just wasn't ready for the love he claimed to be pursuing. Buffy also had a history of neglecting her human lovers. Are you forgetting Riley and her neglect of him?

WhiteWerewolf

05-08-2004, 04:21 PM

did you just read what i just said? it clearly states buffy and xander would've worked.

and xander leving anya at the alter? that was during season sux. the later seasons proved to be OOC for all the characters.

you know what. i give up. i love BX, you love BS. fine. let's move. the shows are over. smg is done with buffy. no use arguing what kind of ships would work. because the show is over. in the last episode of angel, buffy moved on. its done.

you have your reasons for like spike. fine. thats your right. but dont think xander and buffy cant work. i have my moments to for BX. from season 1-7. i dont want to list them because i dont want to keep this pointless debate going. im done with this thread.

i still state that a spike show wouldnt work. i still say BX is the ship of my choice. i love buffy and xander. i love the chemisty they have together. that's it.

you love spuffy prolly for the same reasons. you love SB, it is the ship of your choice. you love spike and buffy. you love the chemisty they have together. thats fine.

im done. im not going to keep beating a dead horse on shipping wars because BTVS is over. ATS is ending. thats it.

White Werewolf

spikethebloody

05-08-2004, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by WhiteWerewolf
did you just read what i just said? it clearly states buffy and xander would've worked.

and xander leving anya at the alter? that was during season sux. the later seasons proved to be OOC for all the characters.

you know what. i give up. i love BX, you love BS. fine. let's move. the shows are over. smg is done with buffy. no use arguing what kind of ships would work. because the show is over. in the last episode of angel, buffy moved on. its done.

you have your reasons for like spike. fine. thats your right. but dont think xander and buffy cant work. i have my moments to for BX. from season 1-7. i dont want to list them because i dont want to keep this pointless debate going. im done with this thread.

i still state that a spike show wouldnt work. i still say BX is the ship of my choice. i love buffy and xander. i love the chemisty they have together. that's it.

you love spuffy prolly for the same reasons. you love SB, it is the ship of your choice. you love spike and buffy. you love the chemisty they have together. thats fine.

im done. im not going to keep beating a dead horse on shipping wars because BTVS is over. ATS is ending. thats it.

White Werewolf

My post clearly stated that Spike and Buffy could work and you disagreed just like i disagree with you. You are right though. We both have valid reasons for thinking the way we do. But if the point of this board is for everyone to agree then this board sucks.

Soulless

05-08-2004, 08:16 PM

Just because nobody can see a Spike show working doesn't mean WB can't surprise you with something good.

Yeah, like WB will do anything good...

spikethebloody

05-10-2004, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Soulless
Just because nobody can see a Spike show working doesn't mean WB can't surprise you with something good.

Yeah, like WB will do anything good...

When i first heard of BTVS i thought it would suck like the movie. It turned out to be the best show i have ever seen. A spike show could work if done right. Of that i have no doubt. Will it happen? Would they do it right? That i do not know.

Skyhex

05-11-2004, 04:29 AM

i think a show devoted to spike would be great

Orlando_Fan89

05-11-2004, 03:50 PM

i think it would be more of a comedy though if it was a spike tv show

ChristCSI_05

05-12-2004, 09:51 PM

it'd be crap...besides I do believe there's a second season of tru calling so that wouldn't work for her faith show

Klimber

05-14-2004, 04:16 PM

I though they decided to can Tru season 2, was that misinformation??

ChristCSI_05

05-14-2004, 08:09 PM

I don't know if its official or not. I just keep hearing from a lot of sites and friends who have contacts that there is a strong possibility of a second season. The first season left it wide open and it was a "season finale" not a "series finale" So I guess we get to be surprised :applaud:

spikethebloody

05-16-2004, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Skyhex
i think a show devoted to spike would be great

Exactamundo.

MytMowse

05-17-2004, 01:52 PM

I know this won't happen, since the actress is working on a new show coming soon. But I'd like to see one with Willow, she can fight evil with her witch magic.

Steve125

05-17-2004, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by MytMowse
I know this won't happen, since the actress is working on a new show coming soon. But I'd like to see one with Willow, she can fight evil with her witch magic.

I read yesterday that her show Americana or whatever was supposedly "on the bubble." I dunno if anything's changed yet, haven't gotten around to looking at NBC's fall lineup yet...

kris1985

05-17-2004, 05:47 PM

what if they casted Eliza Dushku in it? would a Spike, Faith show work?

Steve125

05-17-2004, 07:49 PM

I guess they could have Spike (cause James Marsters is up for anything), Faith (cause Tru Calling is iffy) and Willow if they wanted to (Americana has been dropped from NBC's Fall Lineup).

I like that combination. It would just be a matter of convincing them to come back...

cerealkiller182

05-19-2004, 09:03 AM

I read somewhere (iforget where) that angel was going to be picked up by NBC. So, Angel would go the way of Buffy when the WB dropped that show too.

WhiteWerewolf

05-19-2004, 12:14 PM

NBC wasnt going to pick up Angel. NBC wanted to do a spin-off series based on Van Helsing. Angel is over. the series finale premieres tonight. either that or next week.

TC i heard just got picked up for season 2.

the AH show didnt get picked up though.

ABC, WB, and NBC premiereed their schedules for the fall. none of them have anything Buffy/Angel cast member orientated. looks like the Jossverse is gone from the schedule.

Klimber

05-19-2004, 01:00 PM

To quote The Kurgan from the Highlander:
I have something to say: it's better burn out, than to fade away.

Lets hope Angel shine like the sun in the closing of this great show.

spikethebloody

05-19-2004, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by kris1985
what if they casted Eliza Dushku in it? would a Spike, Faith show work?

I think so. In Buffy season 7 Spike and Faith had very good chemistry. They worked well together i don't see why they couldn't work well together on their own series.

WhiteWerewolf

05-19-2004, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by spikethebloody
I think so. In Buffy season 7 Spike and Faith had very good chemistry. They worked well together i don't see why they couldn't work well together on their own series.

actually, before ATS did this season, joss was setting up for a couple spin-offs. one of which was rumoured to be a faith/xander/spike show. they were going to go to Boston.

but, it never happened. ED went to TC, NB had a pilot filmed but it never got picked up, and JM went to Angel.

no such luck it will happen now that TC just got picked up for season 2. and rumour has it that tonight's finale is good for all characters.

but as people have said. Angel is over. sad but true.

White Werewolf

Kobolos

05-20-2004, 09:51 AM

Just a couple of thoughts:

Spike has been on a hero's journey from the very beginning. So a show wouldn't be without a theme...

I'm going to go on record to say this is it kids, it's over.

You may get some tv-movies about individual Buffyverse characters or maybe even a "real Buffy" movie to right the wrongs of the 1992 abomination, but I have a feeling we've seen the last of them for a while....

I'd just be happy with that Ripper Tv movie they've been promising for years.

Klimber

05-20-2004, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Kobolos
You may get some tv-movies about individual Buffyverse characters or maybe even a "real Buffy" movie to right the wrongs of the 1992 abomination

It is funny that you say that because many years ago I, feared what would happen when the Buffy series started and They were going to try to capture the theme of such a campy movie into a weekly series with some fresh faced nobody called Sarah Michelle Geller instead the movie Buffy, Kristy Swanson.

Now here we sit at the end of an 7 year era of great stories and even better characters. Now the TV show is the truth and the movie is the Lie. What a pleasent irony.

Not to dis-simular to the MASH saga. Where the movie is just the rough draft to the masterpiece that is the series.

WhiteWerewolf

05-20-2004, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by Kobolos
Just a couple of thoughts:

Spike has been on a hero's journey from the very beginning. So a show wouldn't be without a theme...

I'm going to go on record to say this is it kids, it's over.

You may get some tv-movies about individual Buffyverse characters or maybe even a "real Buffy" movie to right the wrongs of the 1992 abomination, but I have a feeling we've seen the last of them for a while....

I'd just be happy with that Ripper Tv movie they've been promising for years.

i heard about the movies too. but then they were reported to be false. they were talking four, right?

anyway, the theme of spike becoming a hero sounds incredibly like angel: the series. we take a vampie with a bad past and he moves forward to become a hero. let's just throw in redemption to make it sound better.

i love redemption, dont get me wrong. characters i love that had redemption were angel, faith, teal'c, and xena.

but as of late, the last season of ATS said all vampires could be redeemed. i love the fact that we had a villian at the end of the show's run stay as a villian.

and the becoming a hero theme was kinda taken by hercules.

React24

05-20-2004, 08:26 PM

I heard that masters is pushing for a spinoff and i though TC wasnt picked up for next season i guess i heard wrong, and the whole angel movie thing would be cool except David Boreanaz doesnt want to do the character anymore and it was suppost to be a mini sereis with 1 showing each month for 1 year.......just rumors though, just rumors:(

PsychoMike

05-20-2004, 10:27 PM

I think if they make a movie or spin-off with Illyria would be good. Right now she has the most potential out of any charecter.

Kobolos

05-21-2004, 12:10 AM

Not about Spike becoming a hero, but a hero's journey...there is a difference. Who else is left to fufill the Sanshu now that Angel is out of it?

Would Marsters do it though? He's always been big on having the "Cadillac role" where he gets to look good without doing alot of work...

anywhoo....posted for your inspection:

http://www.darkhorizons.com/news04/040520d.php
Last night saw the Buffy-verse collapse in on itself as "Angel" finished in its fifth season on The WB despite strong ratings and critical praise. The bad news is not only is it being replaced with some rather crap stand-up comedy shows, but its been mentioned that all that talk of TV movies and such is just talk for now.

This has left creator Joss Whedon very upset and he ain't afraid to express it. In an article over at Zap2It, he revealed what would have been the premise for season six - "If you buck the system and do your best to make it collapse, what if it does?". He also confirmed he had a few discussions -- although nothing more than that -- about a TV movie or another spinoff, which he says he'd only do if a cogent idea comes to him and he can assemble enough of the cast and crew to execute it properly: "I'd rather stop now than do anything by halves...[but] I just don't believe that the Buffy-verse is dead".

Darkmakaimura

05-22-2004, 09:13 PM

I've only watched one episode of Buffy and only because my favorite actress guest starred in it.

I never really got into the show much. Not that it's bad, but it never looked that appealing to me and I'm a big fan of White Wolf's World of Darkness series.

Kobolos

05-23-2004, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Darkmakaimura
I'm a big fan of White Wolf's World of Darkness series.

You should look for the Kindred: The Embraced series on DVD...it's a hoot.

Anyone hearing rumblings about the Animated series?

Joss working on it...Alyson Hannigan already recording her voice? Cartoon Network? My head is spinning....So in tribute to the rumours, I made this from Eric Wight's design work from last year:

http://www.geocities.com/brimstone_witch/canuck/buffyani.jpg

Darkmakaimura

06-05-2004, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by Kobolos
[b]You should look for the Kindred: The Embraced series on DVD...it's a hoot.
I seen it when it first aired on television, although I didn't catch the last two episodes I believe. It was okay. It wasn't really anything like the game or the World of Darkness in general (in fact, it wasn't a very dark world at that portrayed in the series).

GGGG

06-06-2004, 08:44 AM

I thought Angel was cancelled due to poor rating, therefore no chance for Spike

Steve125

06-06-2004, 09:35 AM

According to the WB's Jordan Levin it was cancelled because "It wasn't a show that you could watch over and over." Riiiiight. The ratings were doing better this year than any of the previous years.

WhiteWerewolf

06-07-2004, 08:10 AM

the show's ratings have dwindled over the years. alot of people still think season 1 was the best of the show's run. when a show is cancled, people normally jump on to try and save it. look at what happened to enterprise.

alot of reasons can be said about the departure of angel. with charisma leaving, the show lost its female lead. alot of people loved cordelia and left the show because of that. joss tried to save the show with bringing spike over from buffy. but it backfired. spike became a angel clone during this season. he became a marty-sue. it seems he could do no wrong. alot of people didnt like that. i even know some spike fans didnt like what he became.

but the show needed a female lead, and since charisma left. it landed on AA. they even killed fred which alot of people didnt like.

angel was always pointed to be the vampire who sought redemption. which is great. but soon everyone could be redeemed. every vampire at W&H seems to stop drinking human blood. soon, the american public would list vampires as vampiric challenged or something like that.

also, the WB has become the teenage drama crap network. the only reason why i watched Buffy was because of the supernatural element. not because of the teenage drama. people can get enough of that in real life.

BTVS and ATS just got worse as the series ended. it happens. but Joss tried to save ATS, and it failed. the show was doomed to be let go.