Someone has intentionally flown two aircraft into the World trade center bldgs. [Archive]

Jedi Knight

09-11-2001, 11:21 AM

Bush has ordered an extreme investigation, and he wants the people who did this brought to justice. He's doing what any good President should do. He's not going to be getting out the bombs just yet, he wants confirmation first.
The main suspect is a certain Islaam leader who's name escapes me at the moment.

Here's an article from AOL.COM:

Apparent Terror Attacks Hits D.C.
The Associated Press
Sep 11 2001 11:57AM

World Trade Center tower two falls to the ground. Both towers have fallen after planes crashed into the buildings.

Bush: Crashes Could Be Terrorism

Plane Crashes South of Pittsburgh

Wall Street Comes to Halt
Timeline of Events

--Plane crashes into tower of World Trade Center in lower Manhattan, shortly before 9 a-m Eastern.

--Second plane crashes into the second tower of the World Trade Center, shortly after 9 a-m Eastern.

--President Bush, in Sarasota, Florida, calls the crashes ''an apparent terrorist attack'' and a ''national tragedy.''

--An aircraft crashes near Pentagon, just outside of Washington D-C, in Northern Virginia, about an hour after the attacks in New York.

--Government buildings in Washington, including the Capitol and the White House, are evacuated with officials citing a credible threat of a terrorist attack.

--The Federal Aviation Administration shuts down all aircraft takeoffs nationwide.

--Shortly after 10 a-m Eastern, one World Trade Center tower in New York collapses, about an hour after being hit by plane.

--American Airlines says one of the planes that crashed into the Trade Center was American Airlines Flight 11, hijacked after takeoff from Boston en route to Los Angeles.

--Senior law enforcement officials say car bomb explodes outside of State Department in Washington, D-C. Federal protective services later denies car bomb attack occurred.

--Financial markets suspend trading in the wake of the attacks.

Source: The Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Pentagon took a direct, devastating hit from an aircraft and the enduring symbols of American power were evacuated Tuesday as an apparent terrorist attack quickly spread fear and chaos in the nation's capital.

The nerve center of the nation's military burst into flames and a portion of one side of the five-sided structure collapsed when the plane struck in midmorning. Secondary explosions were reported in the aftermath of the attack and great billows of smoke drifted skyward toward the Potomac River and the city beyond.

Authorities immediately began deploying troops, including a regiment of light infantry.

``Terrorism against our nation will not stand,'' vowed President Bush, in Florida on a morning when not only Washington was struck, but the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York were hit by planes and later collapsed.

There was no attempt to minimize the impact.

``This is the second Pearl Harbor. I don't think that I overstate it,'' said Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., referring to the attack 60 years ago that surprised the nation and propelled it into World War II.

With Bush in Florida, his advisers were preparing a list of options, including closing the nation's borders, according to a senior U.S. official.

The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said it was premature to discuss military options because investigators were still trying to determine who was responsible for the attacks.

Away from the Pentagon, unexplained explosions were reported in the vicinity of the State Department and the Capitol. Agents with automatic weapons patrolled the White House grounds.

The departments of Justice, State, Treasury and Defense and the Central Intelligence Agency were evacuated - an estimated 20,000 at the Pentagon alone.

One lawmaker said the congressional leadership had been hustled away to safety.

And the FAA ordered the entire nationwide air traffic system shut down.

A torrent of people rushed from their office buildings throughout the nation's capital, eager to leave a city under siege. The cell phone networks were overloaded, clusters of people sprayed on the sidewalks and at least one suburban school district announced plans to close early.

The Pentagon was hit a short while after the World Trade Center was struck.

Paul Begala, a Democratic consultant, said he witnessed an explosion near the Pentagon, saying it sent a huge, orange fireball skyward.

AP reporter Dave Winslow also saw the crash. He said, ``I saw the tail of a large airliner. ... It plowed right into the Pentagon.''

Gen. Richard Myers, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that prior to the crash into the Pentagon, military officials had been notified that another hijacked plane had been heading from the New York area to Washington. He said he assumed that hijacked plane was the one that hit the Pentagon, though he couldn't be sure.

One of two planes that crashed into the World Trade Center was hijacked after takeoff from Boston, a U.S. official said, citing a transmission from the plane.

The second plane may have flown out of Newark, N.J., the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Asked if there was any possibility the crashes were anything other than deliberate, the official said it appeared not to be an accident, the official said.

Our nation is under attack, we should all justy pray for peace. Prayer seems to be the only thing that keeps me from just falling back into shock over this incident.

God Bless,
---JAC

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: JAC ]

rObix

09-11-2001, 12:00 PM

bush is not the person i want on top of this.

does anyone else know anyone who works in the trade center? i do. this is beyond ****ed up.

Theta

09-11-2001, 01:03 PM

Okay, here's the heads-up, people:
The PLO has NOT claimed responsibility. Both the PLO and the Taliban (the government of Afghanistan) have distanced themselves from this attack, saying they find it appalling and that they had nothing to do with it.

Despite the Pearl Harbor comparisons (which are fair, since this is a surprise attack), WWIII is probably not coming. A war? Possibly, if a government shelters the organization responsible. However, WE WON'T BE DROPPING NUKES TEN MINUTES FROM NOW. NUCLEAR WAR IS NOT HAPPENING.
However, should it be revealed that a terrorist organization is being sheltered by a government, troops will be deployed. At the very least, every member of that organization that the US intelligence community can track down is going to die. It's just a question of whether they get a trial first.

I'd just like to emphasize that the vast majority of Islam finds actions like this every bit as horrific as we do. They're called extremists for a reason, very few Muslims support the idea that America needs to be destroyed, and it is much more than just a religious feeling; it's also political and military.
The guy down the street praying to Mecca is just as horrified as you. Remember that, and tell those who might not understand.

You want to help out, give blood, collect blankets, gather canned food, get medical supplies, focus on the casualities. If you want to fight, find your local recruiter and enlist, don't take it on the streets. The best way to help right now is to save as many people as we can, not get angry.

Psylent

09-11-2001, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by The Insider:
My god this is a horrible thing!

And what about all those people who were in the airplanes? According to the reports, it was ordinary airplanes that were hijacked and send to crash into the Twin Towers and Pentagon.



The plane was hijacked.
I'm afraid the hospital will be part of the attack, but hopefully not!
:eek:

homertheevilash

09-11-2001, 01:21 PM

I just can't believe that this has happened, may god have mercy on all people on the WTC. How did these people get on the planes, they must have been armed, we all know the WTC has been attempted to be blown up before, and they failed, i am very sorry for everyone who knows/loves anyone who has passed on because of this appalling attack.

This could cause a problem in the fact that bush is a phsyco, and when he finds out who did it, we better prey to god that WWIII doesn't break out.

Madness

09-11-2001, 01:48 PM

There've been many other plane crashes. It's important to remember all those who died on these flights. These were innocent men, women, and children that were visiting family, or going back home, and somehow got mixed up in this tragedy.........

Jedi Knight

09-11-2001, 02:07 PM

America has been scarred.

It's heart is wounded, and the tears of the Casualties and their families is it's blood.

Like many have said before, Lord help us, and keep all America, and the families of the casualties, comforted.

This is a day that will live in infamy.

TheBard

09-11-2001, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Juggernaut:
HELL YES drop some nukes!!!! Someone needs to bleed for this!!!!!

Isn't "brain" something that's needed when you're taking part in a discussion?

aeon-death

09-11-2001, 02:35 PM

i'm actually very sad and mad for the moment. i couldn't focus in class, and almost cried out loud few times a while since i saw the news. i want who ever resposible for this dead.

but a war is the last thing we want. hopefully no war at all.

Con-Air

09-11-2001, 03:25 PM

This won't go to war. I think it's odd how in '93 Bin Ladan told the States he would do this exact thing. I think it's either Bin Ladan or one of his terrorist competitors out to set him up. It's times like this I'm glad I live in Canada.

JBond

09-11-2001, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by Madness:
Individual??? This isn't ONE persons doing. Bush is insane, he's gonna bomb an entire country!!
This might be the beginings of WW3............

You could be right here, we have to be careful of what to do. Nuking the hell out of whom ever did this could be the wrong answer. But with Bush...

Chicken

09-11-2001, 03:45 PM

Well i just wanna say someone knows who did it cause all the middle east countries are partying it up over the terrorist act! If thats not the most disgusting thing i don't know what is! bush better not be stupid handling this one.....

douggold

09-11-2001, 03:48 PM

To give immedite help to the rescue effort, dial 1-800-HELP NOW. This is the telephone number for the red cross, who desperately needs donations to support the rescue effort.
If you are in the New York Huson Valley region, call 914-784-4650 to donate blood. Blood is immediately needed in the city.

slinger

09-11-2001, 04:06 PM

Bush has people making the right decisions. He just gives the approval. He's not going to start a nuclear war.

Firstly, I heard of this maybe 20 minutes after this happened. We were just sitting down and someone says that two planes crashed into the WTC Towers. There was about six of us who were I guess shocked. Just didn't believe it happened. In the library they had CNN on. During third period I spent the whole class on the internet finding out what happened. Even checked out CS! and if they put up anything. Then I read about the Pentagon, the plane in Pennslyvania, the towers collapsing, American airports shuting down, UN and other imortant buildings close and later Canadian airports closed.

Watching the footage of the plane crashing was like watching a movie. Same with the dust spreading througout Manhattan. Then I remembered that 'The Lonegun Men' series premiere had a plane being hijacked and headed towards the WTC. Now of course it was adverted.

Right now on CNN they have info that a woman phoned her husband and told him that all the passengers & crew are at the back of the plane and the hijackers used knives and cardboard cutters. She never got the group or nationality.

Jedi Knight

09-11-2001, 05:06 PM

Well, bombing has been taking place on Kabul, Afghanistan.
President Bush never said he was going to drop nukes, I have no idea where you guys got that idea...but he did take action. And I think he made the best possible choice; we needed to take action before they regained their power and struck again.

Madness

09-11-2001, 05:21 PM

I don't believe Bush has already bombed Afganistan!! They're not even sure if it was them who did it!!! See, this is what I'm talking about. States bombs other countries without remorse or second thought, but heaven forbid anyone try that ***** on the States.
I'm not trying to be insensitive to all those who lost their lives today, but killing more innocents won't solve a thing, especially if it's discovered that Afganistan had nothing to do with it..........

Link

09-11-2001, 05:39 PM

I didn't like my first reply as it really wasn't reflected on 9/11. I'll just put it short and simply that it was a very upsetting moment in history.

D-fence

09-11-2001, 06:02 PM

I watched one of the leaders of my country (Holland) make a statement today on tv.. He said something that made the hairs on my nek stand up:

From now on, the world will NEVER be the same

Lets all hope today won't be the beginning of the end. You know.. i wasn't an adult in the Cold War, but i heard my parents talk about it, the fear.. and today, for the first time, i think i understand what they were talking about. :(

Dione

09-11-2001, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Con-Air:
This won't go to war. I think it's odd how in '93 Bin Ladan told the States he would do this exact thing. I think it's either Bin Ladan or one of his terrorist competitors out to set him up. It's times like this I'm glad I live in Canada.

Yes, I am as well, but are we really completely immune to things like this happening to us? If this can happen in the States, it could probably happen anywhere. Here in Edmonton, the airport is completely shut down.

thebtskink

09-11-2001, 07:11 PM

Every generation has a life changing event. Those in their 70s-80s have Pearl Harbor. Those in their 40s and up have JFK assassinated.

We have this. I will never forget Sept. 11, 2001 for as long as I live. This is even worse than Pearl Harbor. Most likely, the death toll is in the thousands. Innocent civilians have died.

That being said, those who are responsible must be punished. The person or persons, or nation(s)responsible for this horrific act must be brought to justice.

Most probably the attack is of Middle-eastern origin based upon its nature and Osama's warning 3 weeks ago. Yet, we must not jump to conclusions. No witchhunts or internments (Japanese-americans, WWII) can be allowed to happen.

There is no word yet on who is bombing Afghanistan. Do not assume it is American.

Even though Muslims are painted as terrorist-kind people, nothing could be further from the truth. The majority of Islam, the Sunni, are non-violent people who are horrified at this action. The minority 10% of Islam is Shi'ite, who believe in a holy war, Jihad, to allow their transcending to heaven.

If an attack is waged on a nation by the Allies, care must be taken to protect the 90% of innocent Muslims. Two wrongs do not make a right. This attack is so to say only if a RADICAL muslim group is behind it. Action will be taken, but it must be carefully.

Keep the victims of this horrific, tragic day in your hearts. Give Blood. Volunteer. Do not stand idly by. Send a message to the attackers, whoever they may be. AMERICA WILL PERSERVERE. DEMOCRACY WILL PERSERVERE. WE WILL GO ON, AND WE WILL SURVIVE!!!

bbf2

09-11-2001, 07:24 PM

I'm sick of people thinking that this will trigger World War Three.

This rumor will do NOTHING but cause unnecessary fear and panic in the people of the world.

THIS IS A TERRORIST ATTACK. World War Three would only be an option if an extremely powerful country like China with LOTS of allies did this. This was done (99 percent sure) by a bunch of Palestinean b***ards. Even with Afghanistan shielding them, they will find no allies. It will be America and most of the rest of the word vs. a terrorist group and perhaps Afghanistan, at worst.

This is a horrible tragedy, but striking the fear of WW3 into people's hearts does no good.

thebtskink

09-11-2001, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by bbf2:


THIS IS A TERRORIST ATTACK. World War Three would only be an option if an extremely powerful country like China with LOTS of allies did this. This was done (99 percent sure) by a bunch of Palestinean b***ards. Even with Afghanistan shielding them, they will find no allies. It will be America and most of the rest of the word vs. a terrorist group and perhaps Afghanistan, at worst.


I don't believe WWIII will result, and if it does, it will be everyone vs. the perpetrators.

But the incredible coordination and organization of the attack lays extreme doubt to the attack being the cause of ONE terrorist group. At the very least, it was a number of terrorist groups acting in conjunction for a coordinated attack. At the most, it was an attack funded by a nation, and therefore, an act of war.

I don't think WWIII will break out. If it does though, I'm ****ed, I'm about that age.

Juggernaut

09-11-2001, 08:07 PM

Yes Bard, Brains and intelligence are necessary components in dealing with this situation...but not at the cost of our hearts. For most of the day our nation was held in terror, ordinary people afraid to go out and do their normal business. Our government ground to a halt. And the thing which is most prevalent,....is it over??? Who's next??? The group responsible has made their statement,now we need to make ours...decsively and finally!!!!!!!

Jedi Knight

09-11-2001, 08:09 PM

Saying we are not at war would be a lie. This is war, it may not be someone's definition of a World War, but it is war. And America, founded with God, will persevere through this crisis. They may have shaken the foundations of our cities, but America's hope in God, and our National spirit, will walk through the dust that has collapsed upon our homes, and we will go into the light, as will the terrorists.
President Bush quoted Psalm 23 in his National Address to the Country...

"Even though I walk through the shadow of the Valley Of Death, you are with me."

[I]That should become permanent to the Heart of America today. That we will persevere, because we have faith in what we were founded upon, and what we still are.
People have said through this crisis, "God be with us." And our prayers have been answered; he is, as is our spirit, and his.

If we could all please give a moment of silence and prayer, for the Americans lost in this incident...please, no one post on the board as of now, so we can all give our prayers to the families, and those who have left us.

*A Moment Of Silence.*

Jack

09-11-2001, 08:10 PM

I just want to know how they got on those planes in the first place. I heard a lot of talk about using "knife-like weapons", so I wonder if they even used guns. I was deeply disturbed by the video tape of young palistine children celebrating in the streets, who probably are way to young to grasp what they are doing, just being brain washed by adults in their community, its one of the most disgusting things I have ever witnessed. My heart goes out to those who lost someone today, and pray that we dont go into something we will regret.

EmpireOfDust

09-11-2001, 08:35 PM

I went to school today, and my stomach dropped when i heard this news... This is the most deeply touching, personal, tragic, sickening event i have ever witnissed in my life... This is Un-called for... I do wish for the people behind this to pay and rot in hell for all eternity... But, I want peace, And this hits WAY too close to home, we hear about stuff like this all the time in foreign countrys, the fact that it is happening here is an extreme shock... The countrys are jealous of what we have, FREEDOM... The fact they dont have ORDER like we do makes them jealous... They will bomb us... But I beleive in George W. and the people investigating to get to the bottom of this... Evil will pay...

Aztec

09-11-2001, 09:03 PM

I live in Long Island (suburbs of New York City) and I drove out to Hofstra University today (30 miles East of Manhattan). As I drove west I could actually see the smoke along the horizon.

From the 13th floor of the Hofstra dormatories there is usually a breathtaking view of Manhattan namely the World Trade Center and the Empire State Building. When I looked from the 13th floor today, THERE WAS NO WORLD TRADE CENTER and a cloud of smoke. I've never felt such devastation in my life. I cried as I viewed it.

Let's hope those that did this or supported this are punished severely. Let us not jump to conclusions or take the matter into our own hands. Those responsible will pay in time my friends!

I agree with a previous poster who suggested donating blood, blankets, and food to our brothers and sisters who need it. These are great suggestions. My thoughts and prayers go out to anyone who lost anyone they care about in this devasting tragedy. God bless!

fractal_inversion

09-11-2001, 09:03 PM

Evil will pay? Oh crap, this is only going to get worse. What about the families in the Middle-East who have put up with this stuff their entire lives? They're reported in the papaers on something like page eighteen... occasionally. But when it happens to America- oh great, let's start World War Three.....
This is going to be bad.

Con-Air

09-11-2001, 09:04 PM

Who bombed Afganistan? The States are saying that they didn't have anything to do with it. I think some terrorist group is trying to start a war here. They destroy us, they bomb them. Turn us against them.

Aztec

09-11-2001, 09:12 PM

Afghani Rebels and Russian soldiers bombed an ammunition site that the ruling party in Afghanistan the Taliban hand under their control. They have been fighting to knock the Taliban out of power for some time now.

The Taliban is an extremely strict Islamic Fundamentalist government, that is currently housing Islamic terroists like Osama Bin Ladin.

Superchunk

09-11-2001, 09:15 PM

Hey Dione i live in lethbridge. why did they send all the planes to canada?...were they like "hey these planes r crashing into our buildings, lets send them to canada".
when i first heard the news i got goosebumps...i also got them when i actually watched what was happening. i cant believe what is happening...this is sooo unreal. WWIII will most likly not happen but it will depend on who was responsible and who are their allies and if they will jump in. this is way worse than pearl harbor...this doesnt even compare...only thing this compares to is the civil war at gettisberg or whatever.
yes those palestinians in the streets dancing and ****...that pissed me off.
May God be with you all.
If god is on our side. Who is on theirs?

slinger

09-11-2001, 09:32 PM

Its been just only over 12 hours but it seems longer. No one will forget this day. Probably not since Man landing on the Moon has an event gotten attention. And today's media is everywhere.

After watching today's stories I have to say CNN, Fox News Channel and CBS have done the better job. BBC America did a good one too. My mom said the Canadian networks were doing a better job.

Now am I glad I live in Canada yes. BUT... we are an American ally, the closet ally to its major cities and all are major cities (except Edmonton) are all near the border. Toronto, Hamilton, Ottawa and Montreal all could've been threaten.

Now after hearing that everyone was at the back of the planes and the terrorists had knives I wondered still how could they get control? If everyone stormed them they all couldn't possibly die. I don't think they have thirty cutting tools with them. If you don't do anything you'll die so atleast try to stop them.

Apparently last month they stopped fourteen terrorist attacks in America.

Jaelle Vidomni

09-11-2001, 10:20 PM

It's absolutely devastating....the sheer magnitude of it all. But this happens all the time in the middle east, some terrorists brought it here and now ppl sit up and take notice.
I live in Saskatchewan and i'm glad right now because even if they would start bombing Canada (which i really dont think they will) they wouldnt in Sask cuz only like 5 ppl live here anyways :D LOL.

tyler_durden

09-11-2001, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by JAC:
Well, bombing has been taking place on Kabul, Afghanistan.
President Bush never said he was going to drop nukes, I have no idea where you guys got that idea...but he did take action. And I think he made the best possible choice; we needed to take action before they regained their power and struck again.

One of the other groups there has already claimed responsibility. It wasn't us.

Randy

09-11-2001, 10:32 PM

I am so sorry for those people who have died and for their families as well. God bless them and give them the strength to overcome this horriffic tragedy that will remain in our minds forever.
God Bless.

I heard about it this morning, since my mom just happened to turn it to CNN. When she saw she gasped and almost screamed out loud. I was shocked, but I had no idea of how much this was going to affect my day, or my life. I thought it was just like the Oklahoma City Bombing, people would be sad, like me, but we would get over it. I had no idea of the signifigance of this horriffic tragedy till school. When I reached school, I talked about it with some of my friends, yet no tears were involved. We hadn't realized the importance of what had happened. When I went into first period, there was the T.V on watching it. Of course we watched it for the first five minutes and thought nothing of it. But when we got to 2nd period, we realized it wasn't just another Oklahoma City bombing thing, It was like a Pearl Harbor thing. Our teacher told us about it, and it continued for the rest of the day. Some parts on the T.V and some speeches by the teachers got us teary eyed. One part I actully saw a man jump from a window and I gasped in horror. It was so terrifying. While many of the kids talked about it, some expressed their feelings with humor, that was their way with coping with the fear. Some said nothing at all. Just merely nodded and pretended nothing had happened. But I wish the families all the best, and may all of your relatives and friends on here be safe. God bless everyone.
Randy

JBond

09-11-2001, 10:41 PM

Im one of those people that try to cope with humor.

...I wonder how long it will be before Bay and Bruckheimer decide to make a movie about this day with Afflek and Harnett. ;)

tyler_durden

09-11-2001, 10:44 PM

I work at a television station and I had no idea of what was going on when I came into work this morning. After I got there, I sat in front of a television stunned for about an hour and a half. I don't understand how someone could have such a disregard for innocent lives. It would have been at least a little more understandable if they had attacked a military instillation or something, but to just wipe out so many innocent lives. I can't comprehend what could drive someone to that point. Of course after I came to, I wound up helping the news department in shooting some stories for the news and was so busy, I didn't even have a chance to think about it. After I got home, I sat and watched the coverage and cried. So many people dead. So many stories. All I can think of is what if that had been my mom, dad, brother, sister, wife...etc. I would have been devastated.

That being said, I believe the US needs to strike back, but they also must be careful not to lower ourselves to their standards by killing randomly. We must find those responsible and those who have been harboring them and give them what they have coming.

And (on a lighter note) the Paper Street Soap Company shall be closed for the next week in remembrance of the victims and their families.

Seriously though, my heart, thoughts and prayers shall be for everyone affected by this tragedy, especially our leaders. I hope that they can think clearly enough to make sure that the PROPER actions are taken.

PalaceDogg

09-11-2001, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by JBond:
Im one of those people that try to cope with humor.

...I wonder how long it will be before Bay and Bruckheimer decide to make a movie about this day with Afflek and Harnett. ;)

Yeah, maybe they'll be flying the planes

Madness

09-11-2001, 11:55 PM

The events of today totally play out like a movie.
I'm not trying to be insensitive, but it's true. The Titanic eas tragic as well, but it is amazing to watch what happened to these people from that perspective. Today is no exception.
1st the 4 planes highjacked. 4 different scenes playing out concurrently.
Then you've got the shot from inside the world trade tower. Business going as usual, people shuffling around drinking coffee. In the distance a plane is seen approaching the tower through a window. The shot continues until people are screaming and the plane comes crashing through, knocking down wall after wall and floor after floor. Shots are shown of people in the floors above and the floor collapsing beneath them.
This is definitly something out of a movie, and yet it isn't......very surreal.........

bbf2

09-12-2001, 12:18 AM

tyler_durden

09-12-2001, 12:26 AM

It just doesn't seem like it should really be happening. This has occured on a huge scale. I am truely speechless.

tyler_durden

09-12-2001, 12:30 AM

The world has become a much scarier place.

Blank Slate

09-12-2001, 12:56 AM

This is terriable news, it seems like so much is happening back to back. I love my country, but I have to say that the US brought this diaster to our door. The US is often painted by the media as the good guys, now while we don't attack innocent people directly, we do how ever have our nose in to many foreign countries problems, and we make enemies doing this. There's a lot of things that our government do that is terriable, and we don't know about it, and anyone who thinks otherwise is nieve. These world leaders make decsions and decides who to attack, and it is the civillians that get the backlash. The US has done something to whoever launched this attack, I'm sorry I just don't see anyone attacking for no reason
and with nothing to gain. Whoever did this didn't profit from it, and to me it appears to be payback. I wish our Government would stay out of the affairs of other countries, and let them handle their own problems. If the US would focus on the social and economic ills that exist inside our country we could proberly do away with a lot of them. I understand the need for foreign policy, but we try to do to much and some countries doesn't even want our help, but yet we force our way in, and this is proberly the fallout from it.

The Insider

09-12-2001, 01:28 AM

It´s times like these you wish that you still had a president like John F. Kennedy in the white house. But we don´t. We have George Bush Jr., arguably the worst president in american history, and he doesn´t know how to deal with the situation. I saw his speech on TV about an hour ago, and he said everything that you expected him to. No big words or sentences, just the plain "We´ve been bombed. We´re united. We will retaliate."
And (excuse me for saying this) his refference to the bible was extremely cheesy.

I also think that it´s a scary thought that Bush promises that both the terrorists AND those who house the terrorists (i.e. the country in which they are). What if the country doesn´t even know that the terrorists are there? What if the goverment in that country doesn´t know that they are there, or (at least) doesn´t recognize the terrorists (and maybe want the terrorists brought to justice, as much as the U.S.). Will they be bombed anyway?

Did anyone stop to consider, that this might not be a Middleeast terroristfaction that is behind these attacks? What if it´s from another part of the world? Even the U.S. itself? That would definetely make it easier for the terrorists to come onboard the flights and hijack the planes.
Think about it... because of the situation in the Middleeast, every terroristorganisation can do virtually everything that they want to, but the blame will immediately be shifted to those who live in the Middleeast, because tensions are very high in that part of the world right now. This is the perfect time for any terroristorganisation to attack the U.S., without getting caught.

Didn´t anybody watch "Arlington Road"?

TheBard

09-12-2001, 06:36 AM

The scary thing is, it all seems like a movie ...

You know, the faked CNN reports that you see in a movie like Armageddon or Independence Day. Thats the first thing I thought when I saw the pictures yesterday.

I was in a chat, when someone said that a plane has just crashed into the WTC. So I switched the TV on and watched CNN (We also recieve CNN in germany).
Starting with curiosity, I watched the article... Then a second plane crashed and I thought this couldn't be real...
Then I've heard that the Pentagon was under attack from another plane, the White House was evacuated and it was just so damned surreal...

Kyle Katarn

09-12-2001, 06:46 AM

I just knew something was wrong when I walked into the commons and saw a group of people standing up looking at the TV...

Originally posted by TheBard:
The scary thing is, it all seems like a movie ...

It does...but the scary thing is, its REAL. And maybe not over yet. Whoever was behind these horrible attacks was obviously professional. God have mercy on those that were lost, and God have mercy on us all.

Am I the only one who found it odd the way both towers just collapsed straight down? Like it was a controlled demolition job like you see in construction???

What worries me more than terrorists now is RUMORS! I've heard such stuff as "Gas will go to $4 a gallon, and no more will be available, the stores will not be able to get more food in, ect..." If this is true, then I guess you should alert others to it. If it is not true, then all you are doing is adding to the panic, something we don't need right now.

Al6042

09-12-2001, 07:54 AM

Hi, to all the folks in this forum.
I just want to say how sad and angry I am about what happened to your people and your way of life.
I'm from Germany and I hope you all know how terrified and angry the german people are.

JBond

09-12-2001, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by Kyle Katarn:
Am I the only one who found it odd the way both towers just collapsed straight down? Like it was a controlled demolition job like you see in construction???

Well remember it wasn't the force of the planes that brought them down, they collapsed about an hour later. The reason for this was that the upper floors eventually collapse from the floors being weakened, this causes a few floors to fall, which brought down the next floor, and so on. The weight of the first few to go started a chain reaction, so it fell straight down.

Jedi Knight

09-12-2001, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by The Insider:
It´s times like these you wish that you still had a president like John F. Kennedy in the white house. But we don´t. We have George Bush Jr., arguably the worst president in american history, and he doesn´t know how to deal with the situation. I saw his speech on TV about an hour ago, and he said everything that you expected him to. No big words or sentences, just the plain "We´ve been bombed. We´re united. We will retaliate."
And (excuse me for saying this) his refference to the bible was extremely cheesy.

I also think that it´s a scary thought that Bush promises that both the terrorists AND those who house the terrorists (i.e. the country in which they are). What if the country doesn´t even know that the terrorists are there? What if the goverment in that country doesn´t know that they are there, or (at least) doesn´t recognize the terrorists (and maybe want the terrorists brought to justice, as much as the U.S.). Will they be bombed anyway?

Did anyone stop to consider, that this might not be a Middleeast terroristfaction that is behind these attacks? What if it´s from another part of the world? Even the U.S. itself? That would definetely make it easier for the terrorists to come onboard the flights and hijack the planes.
Think about it... because of the situation in the Middleeast, every terroristorganisation can do virtually everything that they want to, but the blame will immediately be shifted to those who live in the Middleeast, because tensions are very high in that part of the world right now. This is the perfect time for any terroristorganisation to attack the U.S., without getting caught.

Didn´t anybody watch "Arlington Road"?
I really don't get it when people clown President Bush. He's doing everything possible to unite the Country.
You guys think you could run this Country better? You try and stand in the same room with the Chinese and other Politicians. You try and control a National tragedy in your first year of office.
I really think we should all set our stupid differences aside, with ourselves and the President, and pray for comfort to the families of America, and that our leaders will have wisdom in this time of trial.

Esta La Wago!
---JAC

The Insider

09-12-2001, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by JAC:

I really don't get it when people clown President Bush. He's doing everything possible to unite the Country.
You guys think you could run this Country better? You try and stand in the same room with the Chinese and other Politicians. You try and control a National tragedy in your first year of office.

It´s not about whether I or someone else can "run the country better". It´s about how good the person currently in control can run it. And during the short time in which Bush has been president he has almost started a war with China and he´s just about to begin the Cold War again (what with the missileshield and so forth).
I don´t understand how anyone can respect a man like Bush. I´ve never met anyone who likes him. Gore was the clear favorite in the rest of the world (and also in the U.S. too. He got more votes than Bush in total).
Bush is the kind of guy who doens´t understand how to handle military issues. Just look on how he has handled his job during the last few months, and you´ll find evidence of this.
Bush is someone who wouldn´t feel much remorse after having dropped 5 megabombs over a small country, thereby killing a handfull of teorists and thousands of innocent people. He wouldn´t even blink.
We need someone with a clear perception and a good state of mind. Like John F. Kennedy.

But let´s not turn this topic into a discussion about Bush and his failings. We can always do that another time.

JBond

09-12-2001, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by The Insider:
It´s not about whether I or someone else can "run the country better". It´s about how good the person currently in control can run it.

Exactly. I'm getting sick and tired of people's arguments about people consistig of |"Well let's see YOOU make a better movie!" or "Lets see you run the country better" its a load of crap, he's SUPPOSE to run the countyr, if he's doing things wrong have we have ever right to critize! You should know that Jedi.

Theta

09-12-2001, 10:35 AM

On the Bush thing...personally, I don't like the man, I don't trust him, and I think he's not good for America.
But in situations like this, he's not the one handling things. There are procedures and itemized lists already in place, and those went into effect the second this started. I don't think Bush is smart, but I think he's smart enough not to intervene.

As I said in an earlier post, WWIII is not happening. We're not even clear on who did this yet; Bin Laden has not claimed responsibility, although he's congratulated the terrorists. Just remember that.

On the collapse; it wasn't the weight, it was the fire. The structural supports were melted by the heat of the burning jet fuel, and the weight only finished off the job.

Kyle Katarn

09-12-2001, 10:42 AM

How does anyone know if Bush would feel remorse for bombing innocents?! If Bush was so trigger-happy, don't you think he would have bombed China to get our airmen back?!

As for the election, I think the real answer will never be knowm. The hand-recounting HAD to have been biased. Supervisors could not have watched every person counting that wrongly counted a vote for Gore, or for Bush. I saw a hidden camera report where one counter said "This one is dimpled, so it counts as a vote (for Gore). Then it showed her saying "This one is dimpled but not punctured, so it does not count (For Bush). How many other Gore supporters like her, and Bush supporters marred the results?????????

There is NO precedent for this. They don't write books like "How to run the country when the WTC and Pentagon have been devastated." The man is doing the best he can. He is our President, so don't you think we should at least stand behind him until this crisis is resolved???

The Insider

09-12-2001, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Kyle Katarn:
How does anyone know if Bush would feel remorse for bombing innocents?! If Bush was so trigger-happy, don't you think he would have bombed China to get our airmen back?!

For Bush (and probably many other as well), 1 man isn´t the same as 15.000.

Originally posted by Kyle Katarn:
 As for the election, I think the real answer will never be knowm. The hand-recounting HAD to have been biased. Supervisors could not have watched every person counting that wrongly counted a vote for Gore, or for Bush. I saw a hidden camera report where one counter said "This one is dimpled, so it counts as a vote (for Gore). Then it showed her saying "This one is dimpled but not punctured, so it does not count (For Bush). How many other Gore supporters like her, and Bush supporters marred the results?????????


Even without the Florida votes, Gore won. And it was only in Florida that there was a huge "re-counting" of votes.

Eduardo Canale

09-12-2001, 11:58 AM

I was there when the whole thing happened. It was surreal. It was like watching ID4 and Under Seige movies actually happening before my eyes. It was very frightening. :(

Malice

09-12-2001, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by The Insider:
We have George Bush Jr., arguably the worst president in american history, and he doesn´t know how to deal with the situation. I saw his speech on TV about an hour ago, and he said everything that you expected him to. 

Come on now... WHO IN GODS NAME, "who really knows how to cope with this situation?"

Plus, he is not ARGUABLY the worst we ever had....... He has only been in office for 9 months....

dubloth

09-12-2001, 12:42 PM

at least hes not drinking malted liquor and eating chaken wangs with a the ragheads, not saying any past president names *Sneeze* Clinton *Sneeze* i mean come on, hes being bad ass so far about it, hes not toying around, hes not going to tell you everything thats happening because rag heads have tvs too..... BTW, have you ever heard of the army, well i for one live right beside fort bragg, they are still backed up 5 miles deep with traffic with people reporting to base.....gee hmm..yeah hes the worst....anything happened during clintons term he would go over there play golf, drink some tea, and leave, and they would laugh in his face and commence evil, so give me a break.

Mckhan

09-12-2001, 12:46 PM

"In the City of God there will be a great
"thunder, two brothers(twin towers)
torn apart by chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader(pentagon)
will succumb. The third big war will begin when the big city is burning."
"on the 11th day of the 19 month that...two metal birds would crash into two
tall statues...in the new city... and the world will end soon after"
- Nostradamus 1554 bc -

Some guy posted this at another site. Not sure if its fiction or the actual words of Nostradamus. As some may know, Nostradamus was a prophet who predicted many things that came true years after his death. Could this be one of them??

aeon-death

09-12-2001, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Mckhan:
"In the City of God there will be a great
"thunder, two brothers(twin towers)
torn apart by chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader(pentagon)
will succumb. The third big war will begin when the big city is burning."
"on the 11th day of the 19 month that...two metal birds would crash into two
tall statues...in the new city... and the world will end soon after"
- Nostradamus 1554 bc -

Some guy posted this at another site. Not sure if its fiction or the actual words of Nostradamus. As some may know, Nostradamus was a prophet who predicted many things that came true years after his death. Could this be one of them??

i just see the same thing in the CREEPY thread by The Cat-Man,if some of you want to see it just click on the link.

Madness

09-12-2001, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Blank Slate:
I love my country, but I have to say that the US brought this diaster to our door. The US is often painted by the media as the good guys, now while we don't attack innocent people directly, we do how ever have our nose in to many foreign countries problems, and we make enemies doing this. There's a lot of things that our government do that is terriable, and we don't know about it, and anyone who thinks otherwise is nieve. These world leaders make decsions and decides who to attack, and it is the civillians that get the backlash. The US has done something to whoever launched this attack, I'm sorry I just don't see anyone attacking for no reason and with nothing to gain. Whoever did this didn't profit from it, and to me it appears to be payback. I wish our Government would stay out of the affairs of other countries, and let them handle their own problems. If the US would focus on the social and economic ills that exist inside our country we could proberly do away with a lot of them. I understand the need for foreign policy, but we try to do to much and some countries doesn't even want our help, but yet we force our way in, and this is proberly the fallout from it.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
This incident is proof of just how insane these fanatics can be. And if you go around pissing off these madmen and interfering where you're not wanted, there will be a backlash.
You play with fire, you get burned........

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Madness ]

JBond

09-12-2001, 02:31 PM

Mckhan

09-12-2001, 03:14 PM

- Nostradamus 1554 bc -

[/QB]

OOps! I made an error over here. Offcource it wasn't "bc", he lived after christ. Sorry about that confusion.

Originally posted by JBond:


That guy said a LOT of things!

Yeah, he did. But many of them really occured. And perhaps, still to happen.

The Insider

09-12-2001, 03:15 PM

No. It is NOT a real Notradamus quote. It´s total bull****. Nostradamus never gave away any concrete information, meaning that it wasn´t easy to "decrypt" (like "The Big Enemy Will Come"). Nostradamus used other words for things. He would never really use numbers or any other hard facts, as are indicated in the fake quote that has been circulating around the internet.
Besides, Nostradamus´ great "prophecy of doom" said that the end of the world would happen sometime in August (give or take a few days) in 2000. Last year at that time, many Nostradamus believers and also many ordinary people were anticipating something (especially in France, where Nostradamus was from), but nothing happened.

It´s just something that some stupid jerk has written that has been spread throughout the internet, because of that individual obviously thinks that he/she will get some kind sick perverted pleasure out of it, in the hopes that it will create a little panick.

Go here for confirmation (and more information) on this: http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html

Malice

09-12-2001, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by Madness:

I couldn't have said it better myself.
This incident is proof of just how insane these fanatics can be. And if you go around pissing off these madmen and interfering where you're not wanted, there will be a backlash.
You play with fire, you get burned........

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Madness ]

yeah well you **** with the states and we will put you on a stake.

The Insider

09-12-2001, 03:17 PM

And also here: http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/hoax.html

slinger

09-12-2001, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by JBond:
Im one of those people that try to cope with humor.


I already thought of a little speech that Will Ferrell would do as Bush.

Madness

09-12-2001, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by mrTECH:


yeah well you **** with the states and we will put you on a stake.

No reason to be cocky, tech.....and probably not the most appropriate time either.........

slinger

09-12-2001, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by The Insider:

We need someone with a clear perception and a good state of mind. Like John F. Kennedy.


So that person can be killed by Corporate America and the American Government?

slinger

09-12-2001, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Jaelle Vidomni:
It's absolutely devastating....the sheer magnitude of it all. But this happens all the time in the middle east, some terrorists brought it here and now ppl sit up and take notice.
I live in Saskatchewan and i'm glad right now because even if they would start bombing Canada (which i really dont think they will) they wouldnt in Sask cuz only like 5 ppl live here anyways :D LOL.

What's the tallest building you have there? I drove through Regina and the buildings seemed smaller than here.

Chambers

09-12-2001, 04:28 PM

I already mentioned, how sad we are in Germany about this tragic events. Tomorrow at 10 a.m. nearly everybody in our country will lay down his work for 5 minutes to show our deep feelings with you.... I can't really explain, what I am feeling (my knowledge of
English is not the best), sorry.

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Chambers ]

The Insider

09-12-2001, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by slinger:


So that person can be killed by Corporate America and the American Government?

Er...?

Doomsday

09-12-2001, 05:23 PM

OK, I haven't read this topic, but I'm gonna speak my mind.

Yes, this is a terrible thing, masterminded by terrible people. Now, I know I'm gonna get fried for this, but a lot of people I know, including a couple of you guys I'm sure, are really overreacting. I've heard people say "IT'S GONNA BE WORLD WAR III. WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!" Calm down and shut up. There is not gonna be a WWIII. There is, I'm sure going to be military action, but that is much more different than an all out war. Yes, it is terrible, yes I hope they get the guys who did this, and yes I am deeply saddened by this destruction. But lets try to show some respect. Don't go around saying the world is gonna end and we're at war and everybody is gonna be drafted. If we keep our cool and stay level-headed, our country will survive, like it always has.

JBond

09-12-2001, 05:35 PM

Yes, it's clear that this will not start WW3. That just doesn't make sense.

dubloth

09-12-2001, 05:59 PM

ok im pissed the rag heads went to far, now i cant see collateral damage for a undetermined time!

Chicklet

09-12-2001, 06:04 PM

Hey out, of all you americans, did anyone of you live where the planes crashed, or near it?

Jaelle Vidomni

09-12-2001, 06:29 PM

What's the tallest building you have there? I drove through Regina and the buildings seemed smaller than here.

LOL, it's probably some hotel, slinger. But really...there arent anything even remotely like a sky scraper here. And dont go to Regina-no one likes Regina :P Saskatoon is much much prettier and bigger.

thebtskink

09-12-2001, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by The Insider:


Even without the Florida votes, Gore won. And it was only in Florida that there was a huge "re-counting" of votes.

The thing is though, even with the most liberal of standards, Bush won the recounts.

We should not be talking about the election right now anyway. Its times like these where America and the rest of the free world needs to band together, and strike back. Bush said exactly what he needed to say... if you were a true American, you would put aside your Political differences to support not the man, but THE NATION. This is not a time for dissent. This is a time for unified, national support.

thebtskink

09-12-2001, 06:41 PM

Support your nation. Send a message to terrorists that democracy will survive. I'm flying my flag right now.... you should too.

Jedi Knight

09-12-2001, 07:10 PM

Now is not the time to insult and ridicule Bush.

Stand with God, and pray for our Nation. Whether you are not religious or not. Put aside your differences in memory of our people.

Link

09-12-2001, 07:33 PM

..ICEMAN COMETH lives in N.Y. you know he might've died....

Superchunk

09-12-2001, 07:36 PM

U know what this site needs?

A live chat room.

Link

09-12-2001, 07:45 PM

I just figured that since he hasn't replied to the soon to be 100th post topic that ICE might have been killed....lets hope not...but how will we ever know?

JBond

09-12-2001, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Chicklet:
Hey out, of all you americans, did anyone of you live where the planes crashed, or near it?

My aunt was one of the people that ran down the streets away from the smoke.

JBond

09-12-2001, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by Link:
I just figured that since he hasn't replied to the soon to be 100th post topic that ICE might have been killed....lets hope not...but how will we ever know?

Oh shut up, he didn't die. He's already posted a few times.

Frizzo the Clown

09-12-2001, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by thebtskink:
Support your nation. Send a message to terrorists that democracy will survive. I'm flying my flag right now.... you should too.

In this thread, I'm not Frizzo. I'm Ben. That guy has no place here. I'm flying my flag right now too. I've learned a little about terrorism while I was in the Army. But this is more than I ever fathomed. I have several friends who were working at the Pentagon. I haven't heard from any of them yet.

EmpireOfDust

09-12-2001, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by Frizzo the Clown:


In this thread, I'm not Frizzo. I'm Ben. That guy has no place here. I'm flying my flag right now too. I've learned a little about terrorism while I was in the Army. But this is more than I ever fathomed. I have several friends who were working at the Pentagon. I haven't heard from any of them yet.

My thoughts and prayers are with your friends... I hope they are ok....

Frizzo the Clown

09-12-2001, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by EmpireOfDust:


My thoughts and prayers are with your friends... I hope they are ok....
I don't pray, but I will take that in the spirit that it was intended. Thank you.

Randy

09-12-2001, 08:38 PM

You democrats. I won't have this topic turned into a political battle. Over 10,000 people could be dead and all you people can whine about is if Bush can handle this. I can't believe it. I can't believe you people. Bush hasn't even been the president for 9 months and already you people are criticizing him for just trying to do his job. I would feel the same way if Gore was president. You need to feel for those people right now. If you want to criticize Bush fine. But do it on another post, not on this one!

Frizzo the Clown

09-12-2001, 08:45 PM

I'll admit it. I didn't vote for Dubya. but, he is the President, and I stand behind him. He, His cabinet, his advisors, and our Congress are all working to make the right decisions. This is in no way up to one man. They all have my support.

Randy

09-12-2001, 08:54 PM

That was in contrast to the earlier posts, but I don't like that politics stil manage to get in the way of this dark time. We should be mourning, not dissscussing why Bush should not be President. Understand that.

Frizzo the Clown

09-12-2001, 08:57 PM

Hey, you're preaching to the choir!

JBond

09-12-2001, 09:01 PM

The topics at CS go to where people's thoughts bring them to. You can't tell us we should be mourning these people as if we are sinning by not talking about it. If this gets into a discussion about Bush and his involvment, then that is what is obviously on other people's minds!

Mckhan

09-13-2001, 03:28 AM

Originally posted by The Insider:
No. It is NOT a real Notradamus quote. It´s total bull****. Nostradamus never gave away any concrete information, meaning that it wasn´t easy to "decrypt" (like "The Big Enemy Will Come"). Nostradamus used other words for things. He would never really use numbers or any other hard facts, as are indicated in the fake quote that has been circulating around the internet.
Besides, Nostradamus´ great "prophecy of doom" said that the end of the world would happen sometime in August (give or take a few days) in 2000. Last year at that time, many Nostradamus believers and also many ordinary people were anticipating something (especially in France, where Nostradamus was from), but nothing happened.

It´s just something that some stupid jerk has written that has been spread throughout the internet, because of that individual obviously thinks that he/she will get some kind sick perverted pleasure out of it, in the hopes that it will create a little panick.

Go here for confirmation (and more information) on this: http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html

Alright, alright. I said I wasn't sure if it was real either. I thought it sounded suspicious. Just didn't have the time to snoop around to find out the truth. Sorry about that. Don't jump all over me. :)

Kyle Katarn

09-13-2001, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by The Insider:


Even without the Florida votes, Gore won. And it was only in Florida that there was a huge "re-counting" of votes.

From CNN.com

April 4, 2001
Web posted at: 11:26 a.m. EDT (1526 GMT)

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- If a recount of Florida's disputed votes in last year's close presidential election had been allowed to proceed by the U.S. Supreme Court, Republican George W. Bush still would have won the White House, two newspapers reported Wednesday.

The Miami Herald and USA Today conducted a comprehensive review of 64,248 "undercounted" ballots in Florida's 67 counties that ended last month.

Their count showed that Bush's razor-thin margin of 537 votes -- certified in December by the Florida Secretary of State's office -- would have tripled to 1,665 votes if counted according to standards advocated by his Democratic rival, former Vice President Al Gore.

Now GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!!!! It's people like you that prompted the sale of "Sore-Loserman" bumper stickers! :D

Kyle Katarn

09-13-2001, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by JBond:
The topics at CS go to where people's thoughts bring them to. You can't tell us we should be mourning these people as if we are sinning by not talking about it. If this gets into a discussion about Bush and his involvment, then that is what is obviously on other people's minds!

I agree. I mean to offense to those who lost their lives, or those whose lives were forever changed by talking politics, but it is definitely on my mind!

The Insider

09-13-2001, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by Mckhan:


Alright, alright. I said I wasn't sure if it was real either. I thought it sounded suspicious. Just didn't have the time to snoop around to find out the truth. Sorry about that. Don't jump all over me. :)

Mckhan, I didn´t at all "jump at you". Nothing of what I said in my post about the Notradamus quote was about you. I was frustrated by the fact that som loonie actually did something so stupid like that.

Superman

09-13-2001, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by JAC:
 Our nation is under attack, we should all justy pray for peace. Prayer seems to be the only thing that keeps me from just falling back into shock over this incident.

God Bless,
---JAC

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: JAC ]

I'm with you Jedi.

Superman

09-13-2001, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by Theta:
I'd just like to emphasize that the vast majority of Islam finds actions like this every bit as horrific as we do. They're called extremists for a reason, very few Muslims support the idea that America needs to be destroyed, and it is much more than just a religious feeling; it's also political and military.
The guy down the street praying to Mecca is just as horrified as you. Remember that, and tell those who might not understand.


Keep this in mind people, don't let this turn into a stereotyping like with the Japanese in WWII and Vietnam. A lot of middle eastern people live in my state and they are shocked as anyone else and many have broken down at our campus. It's heartbreaking.

Superman

09-13-2001, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by dubloth:
ok im pissed the rag heads went to far,

Understandably I'm as upset as you are but let's not resort to stereotyping like we did with the Japanese and Vietnamese. I happen to be friends with a few middle eastern people who are as disgusted as we are about this and have been praying non stop. Remember, not all Germans were Nazis and not all arabs are terrorists. I live in a diverese area so I always keep that in mind.

Superman

09-13-2001, 01:46 PM

As you all know I'm anti-Bush but right now I'm looking up to him because he is the only person we can look up to. We all say we want a stronger president, I do too, but the truth is we don't have one right now. We have Bush and we have to hope and support him that he may do the right thing. We are lucky that he's surrounded by smart people (Powell, Cheney, etc) and Bush will make a decision based on his advisors.

This is the worst act that we've witnessed in our lifetimes, in our parent's lifetimes and even grandparents. We all look for heroes, we all wish there was a Captain America or Superman, and you know what there are. They are the firemen, policemen, etc who are giving people hope and that's what we need. We need to find whoever did this and make them pay. I say f--k the trial and kill the bastard on the spot.

The Insider

09-13-2001, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Superman:
 We need to find whoever did this and make them pay. I say f--k the trial and kill the bastard on the spot.

How diplomatic.

Kyle Katarn

09-13-2001, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by Superman:
As you all know I'm anti-Bush but right now I'm looking up to him because he is the only person we can look up to. We all say we want a stronger president, I do too, but the truth is we don't have one right now. We have Bush and we have to hope and support him that he may do the right thing. We are lucky that he's surrounded by smart people (Powell, Cheney, etc) and Bush will make a decision based on his advisors.

This is the worst act that we've witnessed in our lifetimes, in our parent's lifetimes and even grandparents. We all look for heroes, we all wish there was a Captain America or Superman, and you know what there are. They are the firemen, policemen, etc who are giving people hope and that's what we need. We need to find whoever did this and make them pay. I say f--k the trial and kill the bastard on the spot.

Good to hear from you! If you noticed the "What are you afraid of thread," we were getting worried!

As for your solution...It's sure hard to disagree right now... :( I mean, say it is Bin Laden - should we take out half of Afghanistan, or just get to the root of the problem??? There will always be someone to take his place, but fewer innocents would be harmed by an assasination than bombing raids after all..

Ask me, even if he is innocent in this, something needs to be done about him...

Kyle Katarn

09-13-2001, 02:29 PM

I'm also glad to hear that you are behind Bush for this crisis. No one has to like him, but we must stand as one nation! We need unity now more than ever as a country. Any conflict among ourselves that results from this tragedy is a victory for those terrorist cowards!

slinger

09-13-2001, 02:58 PM

They are recieving the signal from the black box from the Pentagon.

dubloth

09-13-2001, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Superman:


Understandably I'm as upset as you are but let's not resort to stereotyping like we did with the Japanese and Vietnamese. I happen to be friends with a few middle eastern people who are as disgusted as we are about this and have been praying non stop. Remember, not all Germans were Nazis and not all arabs are terrorists. I live in a diverese area so I always keep that in mind.

TYPICAL DEMOCRAT RESPONCE

and rag head is a perfectly good term dont get all political and mushy.

movie-man221

09-13-2001, 04:07 PM

with all that is going on, there is not a doubt in my mind that America will be going to war soon. the families of the people who died have my condolences, and to the people who did this, may they rot in the darkest depths of Hell.

The Insider

09-13-2001, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by Kyle Katarn:
 Any conflict among ourselves that results from this tragedy is a victory for those terrorist cowards! 

I think you´re trying to overstate your point. If the U.S. (and maybe the entire world) starts losing faith in each other, and trust starts to dissapate, that would mean that the terrorists have won. They have made us so insecure, that we can´t trust each other any more. Because we´re having a discussion about whether or not Bush is a bad president, doesn´t indicate that a victory has been won by the terrorists.
Unless you think that the terrorists won the day that Bush chose to run for presidency.

slinger, do you have a source for that? (regarding the black box)

dubloth, you scare me.

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: The Insider ]

slinger

09-13-2001, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by The Insider:

slinger, do you have a source for that? (regarding the black box)
[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: The Insider ]

Well you probably know now that it is true, but I was watching CBS.

thebtskink

09-13-2001, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by Superman:


I'm with you Jedi.

Hell has frozen over.

I'm not overly religious, but I'm praying too....

Jedi Knight

09-13-2001, 09:30 PM

Tomorrow is National Prayer Day.
Pray for the United States tommorrow, whether it be around the flag-pole at your school, or in your living room. It doesn't matter if you're religious or not, your country needs your prayers.
This is an extreme tragedy, but don't allow for these people to die in vain--although it seems that they have--Hope that this Country is bounded together by this tragedy; that we turn to God, and gain strength.
Because if we don't, we'll just be giving these people more time to regain their strength.

God Bless America.

Kyle Katarn

09-13-2001, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by JAC:
 It doesn't matter if you're religious or not, your country needs your prayers.
God Bless America.

Amen, brother!

JBond

09-13-2001, 10:11 PM

I think it does matter...

Madness

09-13-2001, 11:36 PM

We don't need to sit around and pray, the pope does enough of that, we need action......

Madness

09-13-2001, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by dubloth:


TYPICAL DEMOCRAT RESPONCE

and rag head is a perfectly good term dont get all political and mushy.
I am totally against serious racism. I sometimes tell racist jokes, but never with malicious intent.
By spewing this racist crap you negate the very freedom you're fighting for. Don't lower yourself like that. They're are also American terrorists, but that doesn't make all apple pie eatin' yankees terrorists, got it?

cafeman

09-14-2001, 06:18 AM

I kept quet until now about this thing becuase I believed it was not my place to speak, as a foreigner, and as a person from a country bombed by USA, among other countries. I feel that now a distance from the event exists for people to be coolheaded about it. Naturally, my symathies go out to all of those who lost their loved ones in the tragedy and for all the innocent people that lost their lives or had their lives drastically altered by this terrible event. However, with the recent American foreign policy, it was just waiting to happen. American government ahs used many a terrorist group until they`re no longer useful, dumping them and leaving them alone and unprotected afterwards. This has been making both those groups as well as the governments, very bitter and angry.

Now, understand this-I am not protecting the terrorists. If you ask me, they deserve the worst possible punishment. I`ve lived in USA, I probably will again, I have many American friends that I love dearly, and overall I agree it`s a great coountry, but your foreign policy is at best seriously flawed.

Something else made me feel angry with some parts of Athe American public. Insted of stopping to contemplate the tragedy, grieve, send condolences and reevaluate life, many Americans could only act pissed off at how someone dared do this. They showed zero care for the tragedy that happened and instead just started thinking about their asses. Like, 20000 people died and all they can think about is killing some more people. Don`t jump the gun just yet.

That was my two cents. i`ve also found a gret essay by Ebert that I think says a lot about how to properly embrace this tragedy http://www.suntimes.com/output/eb-feature/cst-nws-ebert14.html

Kyle Katarn

09-14-2001, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by Madness:
We don't need to sit around and pray, the pope does enough of that, we need action......

I'm all for action, definitely! We (ordinary citizens) can donate blood, money, food, medicine, and time...I hear that volunteers are being turned away in NY because there are so many, but remember that this cleanup will take months.

And we can pray...pray for those who lost loved ones, for those that lost their lives, for us as a Nation, and for George Bush, that he makes the right decision in how to retaliate against the monsters responsible for this...

JBond

09-14-2001, 08:02 AM

Interesting thing Ebert said, but you KNOW there is going to be some memorial there. Whether it's a tablet next to a rebuilt WTC, or if it's a field with...a tablet.

Kyle Katarn

09-14-2001, 08:04 AM

Are they trying it AGAIN?! I heard of arrests at airports yesterday! But now I hear on Good Morning America that secutity was just overreacting....but one man is still being detained...

Stark

09-14-2001, 09:45 AM

I've gotta say that so far I've been impressed with George W. Bush, something I never thought I'd say.
I've always thought of the guys as a dangerous war-monger, but so far he has shown restraint I figured was beyond him.
The answer here isn't bombing the **** out of a whole lot of innocents to get one splinter group of nutcases - that's akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And Bush seems to be taking the same line. I know a response is on the way - no one would let something like this go without a serious retaliation and I believe if the Afghanis refuse to hand over bin Laden, they're going to cop it something chronic. And fair enough - anyone who would shield someone like this from justice (therefore giving them opportunity to do it again) deserves the father of an asskicking. But Bush can't afford to screw it up and he seems to be taking all the necessary steps to ensure they don't. Let's hope he just doesn't lose the plot and start indicriminately bombing the **** out of anyone who even remotely looks like a suspect.

But what has impressed me even more is the way the people of Washington and New York have dropped everything and pitched in to help like no tomorrow. You can keep your sports stars and rock stars and movie stars - the guys digging through the rubble with their bare hands are the real heroes. The way these people have given of themselves to try and save lives has moved me to tears on many occasions. The way people have banded together has reinforced my belief in human nature despite the sub-human nature of these attacks. When the chips are down, there is no colour, no race, no religion. Just simple humanity, which gives me faint hope that one day the violence will end.
I hope all you guys who visit the forum (and all others) are okay. I apologise for the rambling nature of this post as I am quite tired and a little emotionally drained, plus more than a little concerned about a friend of mine who works over the street from the World Trade Centre who I am yet to hear from.
Good luck to you all and I know I speak for all Aussies in wishing you all the best.

Madness

09-14-2001, 10:14 AM

I've been sort of quiet on the situation but I really don't like the fact that all this flag-waving and nationalism is going around.
I sux that people died, yes, but it's ignorant to think that America didn't have it coming. They're like a bully for the planet. They take side with whomever they choose, and stick their noses in places they don't belong.
I know I'm gonna hear a backlash of people who say that I'm an ass-hole, or insensitive or whatever, but Americans just tasted their own medicine.

Stark

09-14-2001, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Madness:
I've been sort of quiet on the situation but I really don't like the fact that all this flag-waving and nationalism is going around.
I sux that people died, yes, but it's ignorant to think that America didn't have it coming. They're like a bully for the planet. They take side with whomever they choose, and stick their noses in places they don't belong.
I know I'm gonna hear a backlash of people who say that I'm an ass-hole, or insensitive or whatever, but Americans just tasted their own medicine.

People sitting in their office, or people trying to save others lives aren't getting "a taste of their own medicine".
You can look throughout history and find all nations have done something of which they are not proud and the US is not excluded from that list. But are you one of these ********s who believe that two wrongs make a right?
If you believe these innocent people, mothers, fathers, sons and daughters got what they deserved, then I have little to say to you.
Forget politics, just be a ****ing human being, man.

Mckhan

09-14-2001, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by The Insider:


Mckhan, I didn´t at all "jump at you". Nothing of what I said in my post about the Notradamus quote was about you. I was frustrated by the fact that som loonie actually did something so stupid like that.

Well actually, I didn't say that you "jumped at me". What I meant was; please don't jump at me in the near future. As in, you have not jumped at me yet but please do not do so later or anytime. Cuz you really seemed pissed man. Anyway, sorry about the confusion. :)

I live in Sweden and today the entire country, at 12'00 pm local time, stopped and became silent for three minutes to tribute and pay respect to those who lost their lives or loved ones on tuesday. I read in the paper that whole Europe was going to do it at the same time.

I've never been so angry about anything in my life when I saw what "they" did to thousands of innocent people at the WTC, yet I get very frustrated when I see people who does not understand that theese sort of things is something people in many countrys have to deal with every day. That theese sufferings is partially faults made by the U.S government. Now don't get me wrong. When someone bashes the U.S with words of hate and only shows it's flaws I try to make them understand that all nations have done wrongs, the States is not alone in abusing it's power and try to show them it's rights. Nevertheless I get very angry when I hear people who has never been elswere but in the States, keep repeating that America is the only light in the world, god bless America all the time, instead of saying god bless the righteous and innocent people all around the WORLD, cause we are all living in the same world and America is not the only country on this lonely planet with mere 6 biljon souls living on it. All of them equal. And there are many other nations equal to America when it comes to civil rights, justice, and human- and life-standards.

Still, the people who did this deserves to be punished, severly.

Kyle Katarn

09-14-2001, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Stark:


People sitting in their office, or people trying to save others lives aren't getting "a taste of their own medicine".
Forget politics, just be a ****ing human being, man.

Stark, I could not have said it better myself. Madness, and all the other misguided people who think like that need to grow a heart!

Madness

09-14-2001, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Stark:


People sitting in their office, or people trying to save others lives aren't getting "a taste of their own medicine".
You can look throughout history and find all nations have done something of which they are not proud and the US is not excluded from that list. But are you one of these ********s who believe that two wrongs make a right?
If you believe these innocent people, mothers, fathers, sons and daughters got what they deserved, then I have little to say to you.
Forget politics, just be a ****ing human being, man.

No, I don't think these innocent people got what they deserved, they had nothing to do with anything, and didn't expect attack. But innocent people DO die in other countries in bombings every year!! Where was your sympathy then?? Do you think that American innocents are better other countries innocents??
Another thing, you bring up "two wrongs make a right", do you think bombing the hell of out all Afganistan including it's innocents to make a right???

cafeman

09-14-2001, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Madness:
No, I don't think these innocent people got what they deserved, they had nothing to do with anything, and didn't expect attack. But innocent people DO die in other countries in bombings every year!! Where was your sympathy then?? Do you think that American innocents are better other countries innocents??
Another thing, you bring up "two wrongs make a right", do you think bombing the hell of out all Afganistan including it's innocents to make a right???

America bombed the **** out of us (Serbia) not too long ago too.

Eduardo Canale

09-14-2001, 12:36 PM

This is sweet. I live in NJ. On the news it was reported that so-called "Arab-Americans" were in Liberty State Park cheering when the towers collapsed. Tourists that were taking pictures, photographed these a**holes and turned in the liscense plate numbers of their cars to the FBI. Now they are hunting them down for deportation. GO FBI!!! Get these animals off our soil!

JBond

09-14-2001, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Madness:
Another thing, you bring up "two wrongs make a right", do you think bombing the hell of out all Afganistan including it's innocents to make a right???

He's got a point there.

Madness

09-14-2001, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Eduardo Canale:
This is sweet. I live in NJ. On the news it was reported that so-called "Arab-Americans" were in Liberty State Park cheering when the towers collapsed. Tourists that were taking pictures, photographed these a**holes and turned in the liscense plate numbers of their cars to the FBI. Now they are hunting them down for deportation. GO FBI!!! Get these animals off our soil!

This is pure BS, FBI would never deport someone for cheering that on. It's a free country!! Stop BS-ing, and get serious!!

slinger

09-14-2001, 02:55 PM

I just bought Maxim, today and they have an feature on odds and right at the start, ODDS THAT THERE WILL BE A MAJOR TERRORIST ATTACK ON U.S. SOIL 8:1

Madness

09-14-2001, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by slinger:
I just bought Maxim, today and they have an feature on odds and right at the start, ODDS THAT THERE WILL BE A MAJOR TERRORIST ATTACK ON U.S. SOIL 8:1

I wonder if this was writtem before the attack??

slinger

09-14-2001, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Madness:


I wonder if this was writtem before the attack??

Yes it was.

Madness

09-14-2001, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Kyle Katarn:
 Madness, and all the other misguided people who think like that need to grow a heart!

Hey, I'm against war, and against spilling more innocent blood, so I do have a heart, bigger than yours I'd imagine. But I also have brains (you can't be all heart and no brains), and they tell me that this incident didn't start on Sept. 11, this has been the culmination of years, if not decades, of US interference in foreign affairs.

Madness

09-14-2001, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by slinger:


Yes it was.

Wow, someone probably feels real guilty right about now.............

Blank Slate

09-14-2001, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Madness:
I sux that people died, yes, but it's ignorant to think that America didn't have it coming. They're like a bully for the planet. They take side with whomever they choose, and stick their noses in places they don't belong.[/QB]

My thoughts exactly, and I am Ameriacan born and bread. The media reports all the negative things about middleasterners that lead to sterotypes of those people. America is painted as the good guy, and never do anything wrong to other nations, Please! If you believe that the Us government hasn't provoked those people over their then you are neive. People wanted to know why this happened and why do the middleasterners hate the US so much, and the F%cking phony ass media says this:" It begin thousands of years ago when those Middleastern countries wealth had riveled those in Europe, and they begin to decline, and felt that those European countries are a threat to their way of life, and their religion. The US came into being, and we became known as the biggest threat to them because of our freedom and power and wealth, and our different views from theirs. The reporter went on to say some more ridiculas gibber that basically boiled down to those countries being Jealous of the US, Yeah these people are so jealous of the US that they would train, and plan years to pull off what they did, and kill themselves in the process because they are so jelous of us. The media didn't mention that the Us has bombed and killed civilians, or when the Us set up sactions against some of those countries like a half of million people starved, during Desert Storm over a million civilians were killed, or the time when the Us bombed a suspected weapons facility that turned out to be a factory that produced medicine killing the civilians workers inside, no these are not legitimate reasons for them to hate our country, but the Main reason is that they are jelous of our freedom and wealth, and the few things I just listed aren't important at all.

Kyle Katarn

09-14-2001, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by JBond:


He's got a point there.

I don't want to bomb anyone. Find the one responsible, eliminate him, and everyone in his organization that comes along! Do it up close and personal...we definitely have the soldiers...

Kyle Katarn

09-14-2001, 10:20 PM

I do think the US butts in in places where we are not wanted, or needed. But, THAT DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENTS!

tyler_durden

09-15-2001, 02:25 AM

Originally posted by JBond:
Interesting thing Ebert said, but you KNOW there is going to be some memorial there. Whether it's a tablet next to a rebuilt WTC, or if it's a field with...a tablet.

I don't think that they should build on that site again. I think they should turn it into a park or something like that. I think that would be an appropriate memorial.

Frizzo the Clown

09-15-2001, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by tyler_durden:


I don't think that they should build on that site again. I think they should turn it into a park or something like that. I think that would be an appropriate memorial.JBond and I were talking about this saem thing the other day. We thend to agree, but I just read anm article that says that the lease-holder of the WTC is determined to rebuild on the spot......

Trade Center leaseholder is determined to rebuild (http://www.msnbc.com/news/628929.asp?pne=asp) Check it out...

cafeman

09-15-2001, 09:17 AM

"I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar-soaked fingers out of the business of these nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own...and if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type because the 'haves' refuse to share with the 'have-nots' by any peaceful method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the American style, which they don`t want and above all don`t want crammed down their throats by Americans"

General David M. Shoup
Commandant, US Marine Corps (1960-1963)
Winner of Congressional Medal of Honor for WWII heroism
May 14, 1966

idiot

09-15-2001, 10:26 AM

I haven't spoken at all about this tragedy yet, but i intend to do so now.

In my opinion there is no excuse for the people who are cheering and celebrating this. Yes there country did get bombed by us before, but did americans enjoy it? I was actually opposing the bombing and missile strikes and now I feel dirty for ever defending them, now that I've seen their reaction. But that doesn't mean we should condemn all muslims and afgahnistans, cause hard enough as it is to believe not all of them are american-hating extremists.

Even though I am strongly democratic and have spoken out against Bush many times before, I will not do that now. Because we have to learn to cooperate with eachother. America needs each and everyone of it's inhabitants to unite for this.

As far as our foreign relation problems go, in my opinion america was dammed either way. If america hadn't helped out other countries, then we would've been seen as greedy capitalists who only care about themselves. If we did send help to them, then the enemies of the country we helped out would consider us enemies.

That being said, I don't think this is a time for vengeance. This is a time for mourning and for compassion. We need to help out in anyway we can. Whether it's donating blood, giving money, or lighting candles, we should all try our very hardest to help. If the time comes that retaliation is necessary then it should be done, but only after america has weighed the consequences of our actions very carefully, should it be done.

That's all I have to say for now. This is an emotional time for all of us and if it isn't then there is something wrong with you.

JBond

09-15-2001, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by idiot:
This is an emotional time for all of us and if it isn't then there is something wrong with you.

Well now that's not fair, people deal with things in different ways.

Kyle Katarn

09-15-2001, 10:46 AM

in my opinion america was dammed either way. If america hadn't helped out other countries, then we would've been seen as greedy capitalists who only care about themselves. If we did send help to them, then the enemies of the country we helped out would consider us enemies.
[/QB]

I agree with your take on foreign relations. It's really a no win situation. If we try to help one country, we draw the wrath of another, or just cause people to say, "there go those snotty Americans, trying to show people how to live again!"

Kyle Katarn

09-15-2001, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by JBond:


Well now that's not fair, people deal with things in different ways.

I don't know idiot, but I don't think he meant any offense to you, or anyone else who does not go around crying and worrying about this 24/7. I'm sure that you feel the emotions, but if you don't want to show them all the time - if you want to deal with it using humor (like SEVERAL people I know), then that is fine! I have cried about this, and it is always on my mind, but I am also trying to get back to normalcy as much as possible.

Jedi Knight

09-15-2001, 11:15 AM

I don't want things to go back to normal.

Through this tragedy, America is united. This attack did the exact opposite of what it was intended for.

God Bless,
---JAC

JBond

09-15-2001, 11:16 AM

Really? I thought it was meant to kill people.

dubloth

09-15-2001, 11:17 AM

it was done to piss me off, cause me and bin laden arent friends anymore, so i think he did this to get back at me.

Jedi Knight

09-15-2001, 11:37 AM

Don't be snappy. Now's not the time, it never will be, ever again.

[ 09-15-2001: Message edited by: JAC ]

Superman

09-15-2001, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by dubloth:


TYPICAL DEMOCRAT RESPONCE

and rag head is a perfectly good term dont get all political and mushy.

It's not a democratic response, it's a response to not be racist. But if you are one then I feel sorry for you.

Superman

09-15-2001, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Madness:

I am totally against serious racism. I sometimes tell racist jokes, but never with malicious intent.
By spewing this racist crap you negate the very freedom you're fighting for. Don't lower yourself like that. They're are also American terrorists, but that doesn't make all apple pie eatin' yankees terrorists, got it?

It's like with Germany in WWII, not all of them were Nazis, not all white people are part of the KKK, not all the Japanese wanted a war in WWII. Same here man, I've known a lot of middle eastern people who are as American as some of us. They like the same music, movies, games, sports, foods and so on. One group shouldn't give them all a bad name, the guys that did this and whp helped them deserve to die.

Remember, this is a country that bombs Iraq on a regular basis, also a country that had two citizens strap an African American to the back of a truck and drag him, a country that's had its own terrorist and the only country that has used nukes killing over 150,000 people. Does that make all of America bad? No, every country/culture has its bad.

Superman

09-15-2001, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Blank Slate:


My thoughts exactly, and I am Ameriacan born and bread. The media reports all the negative things about middleasterners that lead to sterotypes of those people. America is painted as the good guy, and never do anything wrong to other nations, Please! If you believe that the Us government hasn't provoked those people over their then you are neive. People wanted to know why this happened and why do the middleasterners hate the US so much, and the F%cking phony ass media says this:" It begin thousands of years ago when those Middleastern countries wealth had riveled those in Europe, and they begin to decline, and felt that those European countries are a threat to their way of life, and their religion. The US came into being, and we became known as the biggest threat to them because of our freedom and power and wealth, and our different views from theirs. The reporter went on to say some more ridiculas gibber that basically boiled down to those countries being Jealous of the US, Yeah these people are so jealous of the US that they would train, and plan years to pull off what they did, and kill themselves in the process because they are so jelous of us. The media didn't mention that the Us has bombed and killed civilians, or when the Us set up sactions against some of those countries like a half of million people starved, during Desert Storm over a million civilians were killed, or the time when the Us bombed a suspected weapons facility that turned out to be a factory that produced medicine killing the civilians workers inside, no these are not legitimate reasons for them to hate our country, but the Main reason is that they are jelous of our freedom and wealth, and the few things I just listed aren't important at all.

Actually yeah I remember a British reporter who had seen this and the British media totally condemned the killing of innocents and knew it wasn't a total accident. We killed a lot more in the Persian Gulf, Japan, and Eastern Europe. No group of innocents ever deserve to die for any reason but the truth is things like this happen on a regular basis to everyone but we don't hear it.

Superman

09-15-2001, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by dubloth:
it was done to piss me off, cause me and bin laden arent friends anymore, so i think he did this to get back at me.

Was this because you cheated in poker with him?

stevefan

09-16-2001, 08:12 AM

As an Australian, and as a person who had a friend staying in the Marriott Hotel in NYC and hasn't heard from him, I am disgusted by what has happened, and outraged that there are actually so called 'people' out there whohave so little value for human life. Religious extremism is the most awful of crimes in that the victims are so many (the Muslim community in the West amomg them) and the justification so hypocritical (especially given that Islam is a religion that values life as much as any other, in a pure form). The monsters who did this are basically psychopaths who just happen to have a religious argument that allows them to indulge their sickening urges with moral impugnity.

Now is not the time for anyone to be concerned with political ramifications, in my view.

In war many civilians die, and many will die, but if it comes down to them or us, and I believe in the long term it does,I choose us,not 'us Christians', but 'us' as in all people who believe in mutual respect and tolerance.

Only by being utterly united in our fury, indeed more an 'uncontrollable, incandescant' rage is what I feel, not 'quiet, unyielding', can we overcome an evil so great it willtake not just years, butdecades to destroy it. Alot of terrible things will be done to win this war, but they have to be done. I don't advocate murdering innocent Muslims (most of whom are as upset about this as us), but being ruthless in our effort to destroy this threat, as the allies were in WW2, when many atrocities were committed by both sides. But now as then, they (the nations where hatred is acceptable, and don't kid yourself into thinking it is a tiny minority of Iranians and Iraqis who want the West to fall) started it, and we must not flinch when we must actually ACT and not TALK to end it. Sadly I think the Western world is too comfortable, too indulgent, too undisciplined and weak to fight this war on the terms of our enemies. Unlike them we value each individual life, and feel sickened
(I hope) when people (civillian or military) on either side are killed, this will ultimately be our downfall, THAT is why we must be absolutely ruthless and relentless. Their civillian casualties should certainly not be celebrated, but neither should they deter us from what unfortunately must be done.

The road to peace is a bloody one, and I hope the USA and all Western nations, indeed all civilized nations everywhere, have the stomach to travel it, and travel it united.

If it comes to it, I'll join up without a second thought, and I know that, even here away from the horror, many of my countrymen will join me in fighting for freedom, not just for ourselves but for many many generations to come.

In the meantime my prayers are with all people touched in any way by this crime, meaning the entire civilized world, regardless of race or religion.

(incidentally it is always worth pointing out that theologically speaking the god I pray to is shared by Islam and Judaism, which makes the events that will surely ensue so painful)