Biggest Nerdiest Most Obscure fact you know about LOTR

[Inferno]

Who is the biggest LOTR nerd here. Post the most obscure, bizarre, how could you know that, why would you know that, why do you remember that, fact you know about LOTR.

[Brock Landers]

Hmmmm, in Tolkien's original draft of FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING, this was the main Hobbit lineup


BINGO BAGGINS: The Ringbearer
SAM GAMGEE: Helper to Ringbearer
FRODO = Merry/Pippin type character

[PsYkOoOoO]

Hmm.I knew that.:) Guess you are not the nerdiest around here!!

I guess the title goes to Lothenon or Turin.Tolkien geeks.

[The Moose]

i knew most of that Brock. but as PsYkOoOoO said, it would be either Turin or Lothenon

[Smeagol]

I know...that Tolkien was a Professor. ;)

[PsYkOoOoO]

Originally posted by The Moose
i knew most of that Brock. but as PsYkOoOoO said, it would be either Turin or Lothenon

Yeah.

Turin knows the books inside out.I bet he can tell us the story backwards.

Lothenon knows the language.Nuff' said.

[flukeman]

I thought I was smart for knowing what was in the appendices :) Well, at least I sound that way speaking to others outside this forum! But the knowledge of people in here is most impressive, like those mentioned above.

[Andrey83]

I actually know more about the pre-history of LOTR then the Trioligy itself.... Maybe because its so awsome to read about it all ;)

[dustindame]

Your facts are completely screwing with my mind so much because of me never reading the book.

[The Moose]

i don't have an insane knowledge of one area, but general of all areas, other than the first age. but HOME will fix that

[Necross]

Originally posted by The Moose
i don't have an insane knowledge of one area, but general of all areas, other than the first age. but HOME will fix that

My knowledge is getting to extreme geekiness. I know the dates of Tolkien battles and other events more than I know the dates of real life events.

[The Moose]

my tolkien history knowledge would seem better if i didn't know so much about world history

[Elf Lady]

Hmmm, Tolkien's original name for Strider was "Trotter". :p

[Lothenon]

guess the title goes to Lothenon or Turin.Tolkien geeks.


i knew most of that Brock. but as PsYkOoOoO said, it would be either Turin or Lothenon

http://forum.herr-der-ringe-film.de/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Uhm.

'Scuse me? :)

Nah. Biggest geek? That would be Peter Jackson. I mean, guys, he made that book into a movie. Just because no one else did. And he did an amazing job. :applaud:

And what are my most geekish things? Hm. Read the book three times a year. Read every other Tolkien book several times. Language and stuff. Reading the HoME though my knowledge in english is terrible and there is no german translation. (of course reading all he other books in the original, but HoME is a far more difficult read). Some thousand posts in about 3 or 4 different tolkien-boards. Being both Star Wars, Potter and LotR Fan at the same time. Spent way too much time in the theatre watching LotR. (you know what the great thing about dubbed movies is? If so, tell me, I can't see one.) Basic knowledge about what happened in three Ages of History of Middle-Earth and when. Been working on this site (http://www.rotk-see.de.vu/) that has become quite famous. :)
And of course, all the day, quoting Tolkien and Jackson in every possible occasion. Not to mention confusing people with sindarin lines.
But most of that applies to most of the people here, so I am just an ordinary geek.

Oh, not to mention my exams, where I can't resist to put the tengwar equivalent of "Lothenon" right next to my name.

And what's more geek than spent half the day in a virtual Lord of the Rings-themed pub named "The Green Dragon"?:D

[Lothenon]

My knowledge is getting to extreme geekiness. I know the dates of Tolkien battles and other events more than I know the dates of real life events.

^ exactly. Same with geography. :)

Oh, but there is one extraordinary nerdy thing I did:
In some of the German LotR Editions, the Appendices are missing, and are sold seperatly. Waste of money, I thought, so I fetched some paper and started to translate them by myself (for me and some friends, who cannot or dont want to read the original). Twas more work than I had expected, got about 150 pages by now, and am still not finished. But its fun, working with Tolkiens writings.

Hm, yes. That is probably the nerdiest thing I did in about two years of Tolkien-fandom. (first read the hobbit when I was 12 I think, but read LotR when I had seen the first movie. So I was.. 14 or 15. So PJ turned me into what I am now. Bless you pete :) )

[Drogobaggins]

I am in no way the nerdiest LOTR fan here, but as some people aspire to become like jocks, I want to be more of a LOTR geek. I think I am going to write my cable company and request a Tolkien channel. All Tolkien. All the time. Specials, movies, doucmentaries, etc. Forget ESPN. I want LOTR specials!:D

[dustindame]

This is awesome, i wish i knew as much as you guys.

[Undome-Elenamin]

Yea my knowledge goes about as far as the appendices. Lol, I'm trying to get enough courage to go down and borrow The Silmarillion. Last time I tried I didn't get too far...

[Drogobaggins]

Try listening to the audio version of the Silimariliion. It personally helped me to finish it.

[Undome-Elenamin]

Hm, I'll try that. Lol, I've never heard a book on tape to be honest. That'll be a fairly new experience.

[evenstar]

My geekish LOTR achievement, I got 100% on TORN trivia, with out reference to anyother source material! :)
Plus I made an Arwen dress in textiles.

[Smeagol]

Originally posted by Lothenon
My knowledge is getting to extreme geekiness. I know the dates of Tolkien battles and other events more than I know the dates of real life events.

^ exactly. Same with geography. :)

Oh, but there is one extraordinary nerdy thing I did:
In some of the German LotR Editions, the Appendices are missing, and are sold seperatly. Waste of money, I thought, so I fetched some paper and started to translate them by myself (for me and some friends, who cannot or dont want to read the original). Twas more work than I had expected, got about 150 pages by now, and am still not finished. But its fun, working with Tolkiens writings.

Hm, yes. That is probably the nerdiest thing I did in about two years of Tolkien-fandom. (first read the hobbit when I was 12 I think, but read LotR when I had seen the first movie. So I was.. 14 or 15. So PJ turned me into what I am now. Bless you pete :) )

:eek: That is geeky! :D

[todd philip]

hobbits have a 1 and half inch ding dong

[Lothenon]

:rolleyes:

[Kaluza]

Originally posted by todd philip
hobbits have a 1 and half inch ding dong

I think we just found a winner! :D

[Undome-Elenamin]

Or a pervert.


J/K

[Boro]

hobbits are a branch of the race of men

[Andrey83]

Originally posted by todd philip
hobbits have a 1 and half inch ding dong

? How old are you? ;)

[Samwise Gamwich]

Originally posted by Kaluza
I think we just found a winner! :D

Why??
Has he actually measured it?

[The Prophet]

According to Hobbit law, a last will and testament must be signed by seven witnesses, using red ink.

[Andrey83]

:funny:

How do you know that? :)

[The Red Avenger]

I can name all the beacons, from Amon Din all the way to Halifirien

Originally posted by Andrey83
:funny:

How do you know that? :)

Erm....because he is one? :hehe:

Runs away very quickly. :grin:
...
RA

[Andrey83]

Wow, all the beacons! Bring em' on :)

[Lothenon]

Ha! That I can too:

Amon Dîn, Eilenach, Nardol, Erelas, Minrimmon, Calenhad and Halifirien on the borders of Rohan.

unless my memory is cheated by some spell.


and that Hobbit law, a last will and testament must be signed by seven witnesses, using red ink. thing, thats in this book, its called THe Lord of the Rings or so. :)

[The Prophet]

I know because it says that in the chapter of FOTR where Bilbo leaves; the Sacksville-Baggins are really annoyed that he left Bag End to Frodo, and they thought they could at least find a legal loophole in his will or something, but when they looked at it they realized he made a PERFECT will, even down to archaic requirements like that which are usually overlooked.


Ahhhh, the beacon towers, yes......BUT, near which beacon tower was Elendil buried for many years? (he was buried there for over 25 centuries, but was later intered in the tombs of Minas Tirith).

[dustindame]

i need to read the books because i want to know some of this crazy stuff.

[fineus fog]

That a friend of mine hand assembled 12.5 million links of chain maille for the trilogy.
and hes still doing it (obviously not for LOTR)

[Lothenon]

Originally posted by The Prophet

Ahhhh, the beacon towers, yes......BUT, near which beacon tower was Elendil buried for many years? (he was buried there for over 25 centuries, but was later intered in the tombs of Minas Tirith).

uhm.. that's been a while...

halifirien?

[Andrey83]

Originally posted by Lothenon
uhm.. that's been a while...

halifirien?

Well that would be furthes away from MT ;)

My guess is Amon Din...

[The Prophet]

Halafirien.

[big_boy_01]

tolkin had a brown bike with a wiker basket on the font! LOL

he was born in Bloemfontein, South Africa

he married a ladt called Edith Bratt, and he first met her when he was 16! ummm he was an air raid warden in world war 2

The Hobbit's first line was written while he was gradeing exam papers

him and his wife are buried in the same grave! Below his name on the gravestone is says "Beren" and below Edith's name is says "Lúthien," in honor of two characters from The Silmarillion:)

[raptor5]

here's one:

Tolkien was actually an athiest and it took the influence of his good friend, C.S. Lewis, to help him see the light.

[darthspielberg]

i know the official name of the trolls used at Minas Tirith.

Olog-Hai

I learned that while reading the appendices.

I also know that dwarf history accounted by Gimli in TTT is a direct quote from the appendicies.

not to much nerdy here, but at school, damn. Give me a PDA and a Pocket Protector

[Andrey83]

hmmmm.......doesnt -Hai meen orc?

or is that Uruk that meen orc in the black speach.....?

[dustindame]

Dont ask me

[Lothenon]

"-Hai" means "people" or "group of living things" ( like -hoth in Sindarin -> glamoth, orcs )

[Turin Turambar]

Tolkien wanted to change Sam's last name to Goodchild because it was more "English" than Gamgee, but Christopher told him not to.

Also, Tol Eressea (the Lonely Isle) is supposed to represent England. Middle-Earth is supposed to be Western Europe I believe.

In his first version, Sam and Frodo were supposed to fight the Witch King on the slopes of Mount Doom.

[evenstar]

Originally posted by Turin Turambar

In his first version, Sam and Frodo were supposed to fight the Witch King on the slopes of Mount Doom.

Never knew that, can image that would have made great scene though.

[dustindame]

That sounds cool, i want to find all the cool stuff that man thought of for lord of the rings.

[The Prophet]

MAJOR CORRECTIONS:

him and his wife are buried in the same grave! Below his name on the gravestone is says "Beren" and below Edith's name is says "Lúthien," in honor of two characters from The Silmarillion

Actually, Tolkien created Beren and Luthien based on his own life with his wife. Beren had to get a Silmaril as a bridepiece for Luthien, as her father Thingol refused to let him marry her. Tolkien was raised in a catholic boardingschool by a priest there after his mother died (father already dead). The priest was like a second father to him. But he met a girl there, Edith, and they fell in love. However, the priest FORBADE him to even communicate with her, untill he was a man (see the Aragorn-Arwen parallel? Aragorn and Arwen are actually "based" on Beren and Luthien....characters in the story itself remark on how A&A, who are actually descended from Beren and Luthien, are going throught the same doomed relationship...Aragorn remarks on it in the FOTR:EE.



****
Tolkien was actually an athiest and it took the influence of his good friend, C.S. Lewis, to help him see the light.


YOU FOOL!!! Tolkien was a devout Catholic! He then met Lewis at Oxford, and LEWIS was an athiest at the time (who had been protestant but dropped it). Tolkien then convinced him to follow christianity again.

This is ironic because LOTR has many christian elements to it, but Lewis' Narnia stories are actually far more Christian allegory. Tolkien said that he didn't like allegory; LOTR was supposed to be REAL people, not just a creation he made to fit the christian model, although you could learn from their example. For example, Gandalf's ressurection may remeniscent of the ressurection of Christ, but Tolkien said that doesn't mean Gandalf is supposed to be an alternate form of Jesus (Gandalf's actually an angel, of sorts) just that he reminds one of him. Lewis flat out said that Aslan the Lion is supposed to be Jesus in an alternate form (he tells the kids he goes by another name in THEIR world, etc.).

The Elvish word for Orcs is "Yrch" and the Common Speach derivative is Orcs. "Uruk" is a Mordor-term.

"-hai" ending means "people".

"Uruk-hai" means "Orc-folk", but that's just a simple translation: it's more "Orc-breed"..."Orc-thoroughbred", which is what Uruk-hai are; a hybrid of Orcs and Men; being half man, they don't get harmed by the sun.

Similarly, the Mountain-trolls of Mordor, the Olog-hai, don't get turned to stone in the sun, and are probably a result of a breeding experiment by Sauron (hence they are thoroughbreds, "-hai" ending, but that's conjecture.

The trolls attacking Minas Tirith HAD to be Olog-hai, because that's the only way they could have survived the long march without turning to stone.

[dustindame]

Originally posted by The Prophet
MAJOR CORRECTIONS:



Actually, Tolkien created Beren and Luthien based on his own life with his wife. Beren had to get a Silmaril as a bridepiece for Luthien, as her father Thingol refused to let him marry her. Tolkien was raised in a catholic boardingschool by a priest there after his mother died (father already dead). The priest was like a second father to him. But he met a girl there, Edith, and they fell in love. However, the priest FORBADE him to even communicate with her, untill he was a man (see the Aragorn-Arwen parallel? Aragorn and Arwen are actually "based" on Beren and Luthien....characters in the story itself remark on how A&A, who are actually descended from Beren and Luthien, are going throught the same doomed relationship...Aragorn remarks on it in the FOTR:EE.



****



YOU FOOL!!! Tolkien was a devout Catholic! He then met Lewis at Oxford, and LEWIS was an athiest at the time (who had been protestant but dropped it). Tolkien then convinced him to follow christianity again.

This is ironic because LOTR has many christian elements to it, but Lewis' Narnia stories are actually far more Christian allegory. Tolkien said that he didn't like allegory; LOTR was supposed to be REAL people, not just a creation he made to fit the christian model, although you could learn from their example. For example, Gandalf's ressurection may remeniscent of the ressurection of Christ, but Tolkien said that doesn't mean Gandalf is supposed to be an alternate form of Jesus (Gandalf's actually an angel, of sorts) just that he reminds one of him. Lewis flat out said that Aslan the Lion is supposed to be Jesus in an alternate form (he tells the kids he goes by another name in THEIR world, etc.).

The Elvish word for Orcs is "Yrch" and the Common Speach derivative is Orcs. "Uruk" is a Mordor-term.

"-hai" ending means "people".

"Uruk-hai" means "Orc-folk", but that's just a simple translation: it's more "Orc-breed"..."Orc-thoroughbred", which is what Uruk-hai are; a hybrid of Orcs and Men; being half man, they don't get harmed by the sun.

Similarly, the Mountain-trolls of Mordor, the Olog-hai, don't get turned to stone in the sun, and are probably a result of a breeding experiment by Sauron (hence they are thoroughbreds, "-hai" ending, but that's conjecture.

The trolls attacking Minas Tirith HAD to be Olog-hai, because that's the only way they could have survived the long march without turning to stone.

Everyone better listen to this guy, he knows his stuff. Thanks for clearing some stuff up.

[Andrey83]

^^ well, i was under the impression that uruks was a crossing of orcs and goblins, not orcs and men.....

And also, orcs fear the sun, but the reason the mordor orcs "didnt" (they did i thought) was because of the will of sauron.

[Chasticism]

according to the movies, the Uri-Kai were elves...

[The Prophet]

^^ well, i was under the impression that uruks was a crossing of orcs and goblins, not orcs and men.....

****The movie flat-out screwed that line of dialogue up. For some reason, Gandalf said "Saruman has crossed Orcs and Goblin-men to create Uruk-hai"----but Uruk-hai are a Human-Orc cross...a "Goblin-man". "Goblin-men" is another name for "Uruk-hai"...so this movie line is wrong....It basically says "Saruman has crossed Orcs and Uruk-hai to create Uruk-hai".

Next, Orcs and Goblins are the same thing! Tolkien explained that properly the race is known as "Orcs", "goblin" is something of a slang term used to describe Orcs. Actually, they said that Hobbits started calling Orcs goblins, and the slang term kind of spread. But there's no separate race of goblins...all are "Orcs".

The Dark Powers cannot create, only pervert and corrupt, so way back the Dark Powers figured that they needed a race of shock troops. Seeing as they couldn't make their own, they kidnapped ancient Elves (during the infancy of their race) put them in the dungeons of Udun, and "tortured and mutliated" them into Orcs, to the point that they are utterly evil and beyond redemption. (This must have "magically" mutilated them on the genetic level as well, because baby Orcs are also Orcs, not Elves. There are female Orcs, but we see never see them, even less than the Dwarf-women, who are at least mentioned in the Appendix).

So the race of Orcs used to be Elves, "Goblin-men" is just another word for Uruk-hai, and "Goblins" is just a slang term for the race properly termed "Orc".


according to the movies, the Uri-Kai were elves...

Not really: half-right. *ALL* Orcs come from that. That's not to say that any Orcs alive at the time of LOTR were once elves during their lifetime.....the *Race* of Orcs were once Elves the *First Generation Orcs* that were Elves originally died out long ago. (The first Orcs were made in Udun roughly 8,000-10,000 years ago...the Elves were around then but didn't keep too many records of time, etc, but I digress).

What Saruman did was take the Orcs---who were descended from the first Orcs that used to be Elves, and blended them with the race of ****MEN*****. So their Orc-half was Elvish-descended, as noted by the **Elf-like pointed ears** both Orcs and Uruk-hai have.

*****I think the reason PJ & Co. didn't flat out say: "Saruman crossed Elves and Men" is because it's a PG-13 movie and he didn't want to imply that he had Orcs rape the women of the Wild Men of Dunland (those barbarians seen at the beginning of TTT pillaging at Saruman's request).

That actually could have been how it happened, but that's not what I say.

You see, Tolkien never actually said how the Uruk-hai hybridization of Orcs and Men took place (although he later explained that Elves were tortured into regular Orcs). **EVEN characters in the book** wonder how it happened: there's a scene where Treebeard is describing the new Uruk-hai to Merry and Pippin and he says: "Are they Men that he has ruined? Or through Black Arts has he blended the races of Orcs and Men? That would be a black evil!...". So essentially, even in the book the exact process was something of a mystery.

**That whole "worming their way out of the mud" thing is explained on the DVD production section, in the sketches; they said Tolkien at one point thought Orcs might "wriggle out of the muck like maggots" (Tolkien later dropped this idea) so they made a sketch that looked a lot like that. They based the Isengard scenes on the scetch, but they don't really look the same. Regular Orcs *do* "breed after the manner of Elves and Men", as Tolkien put it in the text, but we never heard of a female Uruk-hai.

The movie makers said Saruman's work was aking to genetic experimentation; breeding experiments and "playing God".

So Uruk-hai look more human-like that regular Orcs; taller, straigher posture, long hair, etc.


Personally, I don't think Uruk-hai are the result of Orcs raping human women; I think they're more "test tube babies"; Saruman "magically" blended a Man-Orc hyrbrid, maybe just by taking simple bloodsamples from each. Again, never really explained HOW, but Uruk-hai are definately a cross between Orcs and Men.

[fattybolger]

Tolkein belonged to a literary group called the Inklings...if memory serves Lewis, Charles Williams, Owen Barfield and (at times) Dorothy Sayers attended these gatherings...they read and discuss their works, sometimes derisively, but always with an eye toward mutual improvement...

[Andrey83]

Originally posted by Chasticism
according to the movies, the Uri-Kai were elves...


nope, the movie doesnt say that:

"do you know how the orcs first appeared? they where elves once"

He says orc. Not Uruk-Hai

[dustindame]

How did all the Uruk-hai get in the ground? That is probably a stupid question but i have no idea what the answer would be. I mean he said to build him an army and they just start digging and pulling them out of the mud.

[Lothenon]

Originally posted by dustindame
That sounds cool, i want to find all the cool stuff that man thought of for lord of the rings.

Then I suggest you to read the following books:

The Return of the Shadow
The Treason of Isengard
The War of the Ring
Sauron Defeated

these 4 History of Middle-Earth volumes (VI-IX) concern the development-progress of the LotR.

[dustindame]

ok, thanks, but what order should i read the books. I have never even read the hobbit, or the trilogy

[Turin Turambar]

Originally posted by The Prophet
Aragorn and Arwen are actually "based" on Beren and Luthien....characters in the story itself remark on how A&A, who are actually descended from Beren and Luthien, are going throught the same doomed relationship...Aragorn remarks on it in the FOTR:EE.

I just want to say the same situation can be applied to Frodo and Sam. Beren and Luthien, alone, march off to Morgoth's domain to reclaim the Silmaril. Frodo and Sam, alone, march off to Mordor to lose the One Ring. Very similar in the sense that only the strength of the other person kept them going.

Also Beren loses a hand and Frodo loses a finger.

[Turin Turambar]

Originally posted by dustindame
ok, thanks, but what order should i read the books. I have never even read the hobbit, or the trilogy

Start there, then go to the Silmarillion, then the Book of Lost Tales 1&2, then the History of Middle Earth. Don't start in the middle or you'll be completely lost.

[dustindame]

Thanks man, i want to get started in the right place so i am not completely confused. Isnt there even more about middle earth than that.

[dustindame]

And also nobody answered my question. How do they just start pulling the Uruk-hai out of the mud? How the crap do they get there?

[flukeman]

originally posted by dustindame

And also nobody answered my question. How do they just start pulling the Uruk-hai out of the mud? How the crap do they get there?

Read the posts above by The Prophet more carefully. Here's a snippet:

You see, Tolkien never actually said how the Uruk-hai hybridization of Orcs and Men took place (although he later explained that Elves were tortured into regular Orcs). **EVEN characters in the book** wonder how it happened: there's a scene where Treebeard is describing the new Uruk-hai to Merry and Pippin and he says: "Are they Men that he has ruined? Or through Black Arts has he blended the races of Orcs and Men? That would be a black evil!...". So essentially, even in the book the exact process was something of a mystery.

**That whole "worming their way out of the mud" thing is explained on the DVD production section, in the sketches; they said Tolkien at one point thought Orcs might "wriggle out of the muck like maggots" (Tolkien later dropped this idea) so they made a sketch that looked a lot like that. They based the Isengard scenes on the scetch, but they don't really look the same. Regular Orcs *do* "breed after the manner of Elves and Men", as Tolkien put it in the text, but we never heard of a female Uruk-hai.

[dustindame]

Thank you for not just saying hey dumbass the other guy already said that. haha. Thanks though.

[The Prophet]

Yeah, it's a really good sketch. It's on the FOTR: EE Appendix. There's audio commentary for the sketch, and it explains everything.

[dustindame]

i better go watch that.

[secant]

Stomp on frogs and shove a crowbar up my nose!
I only thought I was an LOTR geek, now I see I am not even worthy.
But I'll give a stab at a random fact...
The prophecy concerning the witch king (Lord of the Nazgul) is that he would not be killed by a man (and we see in ROTK that he is killed by Eowyn, a woman, and Merry, a hobbit). The prophecy was given by Glorfindel, an elf-lord that lives in Rivendell, and it is he, not Arwen, that helps out Frodo and Aragorn at the ford of Rivendell, by lending Frodo his horse.
Now tell me you already knew that, because it's only in the humble appendixes...

[Kurufinwe]

Originally posted by secant
Stomp on frogs and shove a crowbar up my nose!
I only thought I was an LOTR geek, now I see I am not even worthy.
But I'll give a stab at a random fact...
The prophecy concerning the witch king (Lord of the Nazgul) is that he would not be killed by a man (and we see in ROTK that he is killed by Eowyn, a woman, and Merry, a hobbit). The prophecy was given by Glorfindel, an elf-lord that lives in Rivendell, and it is he, not Arwen, that helps out Frodo and Aragorn at the ford of Rivendell, by lending Frodo his horse.
Now tell me you already knew that, because it's only in the humble appendixes...

Yep, and I also know that Glorfindel killed a Balrog in Gondorlin, but died of his wounds. He was later Reincarnated to aid Gil-Galad ;)

[Undome-Elenamin]

All I know is that:
Elves stop having sex after they have children.
The most children an Elf had were seven and those were Feanor's I believe.
Elves think they should marry any where between the age of 50-100.
Elves don't celebrate birthdays they celebrate Begetting-Days (the day that their parents had the sex that conceived them)


No I'm not a pervy little girl. I found this here (http://www.ansereg.com/what_tolkien_officially_said_abo.htm)

[evenstar]

Originally posted by Undome-Elenamin



No I'm not a pervy little girl. I found this here (http://www.ansereg.com/what_tolkien_officially_said_abo.htm)

But how did you find the site :p

[Undome-Elenamin]

:hehe: My friend gave me the link.

[dustindame]

cool