there was the one before Neo [Archive] - The ComingSoon.net Boards

NE0

11-10-2003, 01:24 AM

Seraph is an angel program from the very first Matrix (The perfect one). He "fell" or escaped the crash by working for Mero.

If anyone hasn't figured this out yet...Mero is the Devil. Once he fell from the good "grace's" of the system he went into exile and took other programs who didn't wish to be deleted under his protection. With the help of the Trainman Mero and his group would escape each reloading of the Matrix. Eventually, each ONE ran into Mero at some point and Mero escaped. Listen to what he tells Neo after the stairway fight in Reloaded.

Citizen Kane

11-10-2003, 01:45 AM

I don't think Mero is the devil. It's not as though that bourgeoisie French Restaurant is hell. He's sort of like a drug dealer, or a racketeer(sp?)/profiteer. You give him something he wants, he gives you something you want.

Reemer

11-10-2003, 02:13 AM

ya know what, now that I think about it, it makes sense that Mero is the devil. after all, everything beautiful to him is in "sin", hence his lust and vanity. plus, he resides in club hell, more confirmation. he has his minions (trainman, the twins, etc.) and he makes deals with people, the father (can't remember his name) and his wife practically sold their souls to him for their daughter's safety. plus, I think it would explain the randomness of all these club goers in all the leather and s&m apparel. it's all relative to sin and devilish desires or traits. also explains that God awful tie of his.

todd philip

11-10-2003, 02:34 AM

yes, buit what happened to the mero???

i mean did smith destroy him? was he destroyed at the end when the matrix reloaded?

or did he go into exile again?

RyansRing

11-10-2003, 03:29 AM

he's wearing red in club hell, very devilish

sportymerc

11-10-2003, 03:32 AM

sorry i am new here, but there maybe hints that seraph was the one and there are hints he wasnt. when neo saw him in reloaded, he was an orange code. At the end of Revolutions, Neo was also in orange code. maybe the One once he reaches the source and restarts Zion then becomes a rogue program like maybe Seraph did. I mean Smith's code was orange too and he was the negative portion of the one. The only other orange codes seen were the machines. It would make sense that the one would protect the oracle, who guided him and gave him the belief to have the powers.

PsychoMike

11-10-2003, 03:37 AM

I'll agree that Serph is probobly from the first Matrix, and was working for Mero after he was brought to the other Matrixes. This petty much is the best explination I have herd for who he is.

The theroy that Mero is the Devil is an interesting one I would have to see Reloaded again to make a decission on it.

I think Mero, Persophone, etc. all "brought back" like the Oracle and Setee once Smith was destroyed. I think it was the code of Smith that was destroyed not the program/person it was inhabiting.

dogisburning

11-10-2003, 05:11 AM

Originally posted by sportymerc
sorry i am new here, but there maybe hints that seraph was the one and there are hints he wasnt. when neo saw him in reloaded, he was an orange code. At the end of Revolutions, Neo was also in orange code. maybe the One once he reaches the source and restarts Zion then becomes a rogue program like maybe Seraph did. I mean Smith's code was orange too and he was the negative portion of the one. The only other orange codes seen were the machines. It would make sense that the one would protect the oracle, who guided him and gave him the belief to have the powers.
Smith's code is NOT orange.Neo's isn't either.
What you're talking about is Neo's special vision he saw through in the real world once his eyes were blinded.
I doubt Seraph is a previous One.But I like the theory of him being in the first Matrix.

AnomolyReloaded

11-10-2003, 06:02 AM

Seraph is not the previous One... but I do agree with Mero being the Devil. Parts of that make sense. His wife is, afterall, a Vampire (according to her). And if she's a Vamp, Albinos are ghosts, and sharp-dressed men are Werewolves... yeah, he could be the Devil.

Riddle

11-10-2003, 09:07 AM

Hang on, here.....

If Mero's the devil, then who is Smith?
We know that Neo is "Christ" (God personified), and that Smith is his opposite. So, this would naturally make Smith the "Devil".

Warblade

11-10-2003, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Riddle
Hang on, here.....

If Mero's the devil, then who is Smith?
We know that Neo is "Christ" (God personified), and that Smith is his opposite. So, this would naturally make Smith the "Devil".

The Anti-Christ?? :confused: :confused:

dogisburning

11-10-2003, 10:36 AM

The guys who dispise Christians.I think it's the Romans or something.

Grapez

11-10-2003, 02:10 PM

Persephone was Artemis' daughter, taken by Hades (god of the underworld) to be his wife. (Classics education pays off)
So that would make the Merovingian similar to Hades.
But I dont think he represents such a negative person. the name "Merovingian" itself explains a lot more.

from the internet:
The Merovingians were a dynasty of Frankish kings who ruled a (frequently fluctuating) area in parts of present-day France and Germany from the 5th to 8th century AD. They were sometimes referred to as the "long-haired kings" by contemporaries, though the significance of their long hair is not clear.

In the early 7th century, the Merovingian kings began to allot more and more day-to-day administration to a powerful official in their household called the maior domo. This Latin title literally translates to "big man in the house"; the usual English translation is Mayor of the Palace, although this official was not a mayor in the modern sense of the word

It seems like the Merovingian is the Maior Domo of the matrix, but he's gone a bit -er- wild:

Soon the Mayors were the real military and political leaders of the Frankish kingdom

That's a bit extreme but the whole thing makes sense

matrixobsessed0

11-10-2003, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by NE0
Seraph is an angel program from the very first Matrix (The perfect one). He "fell" or escaped the crash by working for Mero.

If anyone hasn't figured this out yet...Mero is the Devil. Once he fell from the good "grace's" of the system he went into exile and took other programs who didn't wish to be deleted under his protection. With the help of the Trainman Mero and his group would escape each reloading of the Matrix. Eventually, each ONE ran into Mero at some point and Mero escaped. Listen to what he tells Neo after the stairway fight in Reloaded.

This makes comlete sense...honestly......thanx neo..you've shown me the way..ha ha

Marvin Nash

11-10-2003, 02:37 PM

What about the theory that the Architect is God, and Neo is Loki?

I suppose that could be disproven by Smith being his opposite though...

sportymerc

11-10-2003, 06:31 PM

At the end of the movie when Neo's body is being carted off after he inserted his code, they show the orange code and it is the machines, the thing neo is on and neo's body all in orange. And after Neo is blinded in the Logos when Bane/Smith is talking to him, he says "i see you" and he sees the orange code of Smith, that is what i am talking about.

mustardmakerdlx

11-10-2003, 11:01 PM

Up there someone commented on how persephone was a vamp. When was this shown. I know the two men in the chateau were werewolves, and the twins were ghosts, but when does it say persephone is a vamp. Im not bashing, im just asking. I'd like to know, I didnt catch this.

thecastrated

11-10-2003, 11:34 PM

I ask.. if Seraph is a former 1 then where are the other previous ones?:)

Pointy Shrub

11-11-2003, 12:07 AM

I personally think persephone is a sucibus (temptress). i dont understand still why she kisses everyone - Neo/Niobe/Ghost. is she just interested in love or lust? i know that she can tell if you are in love but thats it.

also when neo is taken away by the machine you see the orange vision of that machine from a distance? yes/no? so does that mean he is now "part of the machine city" or something.

NE0

11-11-2003, 12:19 AM

I think the pervious One's returned to the source (mainframe)...had to choose who to free to rebuild Zion and then had their memories or "code" downloaded into the mainframe (source) to help try and fix the "glitch" of the anomly. After all that their bodies were probably taken to 01 and put in the same place where Neo's was taken to.

I guess Pershone could be a Vampire in away. Although, she feeds off of emotion and not blood to sustain her lifeless exsistance next to Mero. She "fell" too along with Mero and the others after the first Matrix crashed.

Smith is the anti-christ but no one ever claimed the anti-christ and the Devil were the same being. As God is to Jesus...The Devil is to the Anti-Christ. So yes, Mero could still be the Devil.

I know it can never be proven but wouldn't it be interesting if Mero had a hand in bringing Smith back after his deletion.

The Devil never like humanity, infact he can't understand how God could care more about something so imperfect as humans over someone like himself, who was a perfect angel.

Who's to say that Mero wouldn't try to destroy the Matrix just to cause trouble for The Architect and the Oracle. He defintately doesn't have a love for either one of them. I'm sure he also doesn't like the fact that Seraph left him to go work with the Oracle.

I've said this before....I'm betting Mero is still out there and he's going to be the main reason the truce collapse between the human's and the machines. I bet Smith was just the first part in his master game plan.

NE0

11-11-2003, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by Pointy Shrub
also when neo is taken away by the machine you see the orange vision of that machine from a distance? yes/no? so does that mean he is now "part of the machine city" or something.

No, your looking through his eyes. He's looking at his body. He evolved to his next level.

Reemer

11-11-2003, 02:01 AM

it's never shown or said or proven in any way that Smith takes over "Merv" or any other associate of his. and as for Seraph being a former one, I don't know, wouldn't he have died by now? the One is a human being, even after touching the source. he eventually would've died and been unable to exist in the matrix. he's just a program designed to protect. he used to protect Mero now he protects the Oracle.

Blizzardman15

11-11-2003, 02:41 AM

Originally posted by NE0
No, your looking through his eyes. He's looking at his body. He evolved to his next level.
What is this next level?

Rain

11-11-2003, 02:42 AM

the previous ones didnt die when they went to the source - because the people of zion know about the previous one, indicating they had contact with him in zion - if he died when he got to the source these people would just wake up and have no idea what the **** is going on.

also why is seraph's code the only one that has the glow? im sure there was a purpose to it.

and is it at all possible that when other ones their minds also get seperated from their body? i mean architect says neo was faster then the others with understanding but even neo wasnt ready to touch the source - other one's minds might go to Mobil Ave. and Merv gets the Trainman to bring them to him. The only reason trainman didnt take neo to merv was because what was supposed to happen - reload - didnt.

NE0

11-11-2003, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by Blizzardman15
What is this next level?

A higher form of being.

It's pretty likely that Neo's mind can now live on without his human body, IF his body really did die.

If his mind got disconnected from his body at the end of Reloaded then who's to say it didn't happen again only now instead of his mind being stuck in Limbo it's now stuck in The Real World.

I'm thinking that once Neo can get more control over his new powers he can most likely manifest a physical presence inside the Matrix.

AnomolyReloaded

11-11-2003, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by mustardmakerdlx
Up there someone commented on how persephone was a vamp. When was this shown. I know the two men in the chateau were werewolves, and the twins were ghosts, but when does it say persephone is a vamp. Im not bashing, im just asking. I'd like to know, I didnt catch this.

Persephone seems to feed on kisses (or better yet, love). She, Monica, herself relates her character to a Vampire. Her name, of coarse, has a different meaning... one thing about these films is - there are no simple answers.

Also, Neo is dead. I had been thinking he could return in comics or another medium but I'm not sure. The Oracle tells Neo he has to go to the Source and that is where the path of the One ends. But she does have faith (or belief, really) in the possibility of his return.

Rain

11-11-2003, 05:08 AM

I think The Oracle's faith in seeing Neo again is more prophecizing of a second coming like most messiahs, however some people are still waiting a looooooong ass time for a second coming

dogisburning

11-11-2003, 05:17 AM

Originally posted by AnomolyReloaded
Persephone seems to feed on kisses (or better yet, love). IMO not feed.Just to feel love.

dogisburning

11-11-2003, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by Reemer
it's never shown or said or proven in any way that Smith takes over "Merv" or any other associate of his. and as for Seraph being a former one, I don't know, wouldn't he have died by now? the One is a human being, even after touching the source. he eventually would've died and been unable to exist in the matrix. he's just a program designed to protect. he used to protect Mero now he protects the Oracle.
No,I don't think Smith takes over the guys in club Hell.

IMO Seraph is a program created for something,but not protect.He was gonna be deleted,but Merovingian saved him from deletion or something.He stayed in club hell for a while,but then went with the Oracle.

NE0

11-12-2003, 12:03 AM

Doesn't anyone wonder why Smith never touches anyone in club Hell or is shown taking over The Merovingian? You would think with all of Smith's power hungry behavior he'd know of Mero and the other's and want to overtake them to....

My feeling is that Mero is somehow behind how Smith returned to the Matrix to begin with.

Everyone know's that Reloaded takes place somtime after the first Matrix film. So why is Smith just showing up back in the Matrix now after being delelted at the end of part one? Does it take awhile for a program that's been deleted to return to the Matrix after not choosing to return to the mainframe and The Architect?

I highly doubt it....were talking about super computers at work here. I would think it would be almost instantanious for something to return after escaping being merged back into the "source"

Smith had to have been around almost imediately after Neo deleted him. So where was he between The end of part one and Reloaded? Club Hel or or under Mero's protection. He most likely spent that time trying to figure out what he had become and how Neo deleted him. I'm sure Mero also helped set him on his path of destruction just to see what would happen and to get back at the Architect (God) and Oracle because he hated them.

Mero is (The Devil) and Smith is (The Anti-Christ)

matrixobsessed0

11-12-2003, 12:12 AM

Smith said..."i knew the rules..i knew what i was supposed to do, but i couldn't...i was compelled to stay...compelled to disobey".....I'm guessing smith was dealing with some sort of internal struggle with himslef between the 2 movies...obviously, the rebelious part of him took over and along the way he discovered his power to "overwrite" programs and or people within the matrix.....I'm guessing at some point, he probably fought an agent or something......during the fight, maybe he went to punch his adversary in the chest and his hand went thru, and eventually spawned a copy of himself......we do know that smith must've laid low for the 6 month span.......just a theory

NE0

11-12-2003, 12:35 AM

I can't imagine that The Wachowski's would create a character like Mero just to use him in a few scenes without a background story equal to the other characters. Nor do i think they would just skip over a confrontation between Smith and Mero in club HEL IF Smith would have shown up there to copy himself onto Mero.

At the very least Mero is a information trafficing program....you'd think that Smith, being a former Agent, he'd know something about Mero and think his abilities would be useful if he copied himself on Mero.

I think because they don't show this that it leaves quite a good possibility that Smith made some kind of deal with Mero or Mero was behind unleashing Smith. Maybe Mero kept Smith in Limbo until he decided the time was right to let him loose. Mero and Persphone were fond of playing "Games". We know this by their conversations in Reloaded with each other.

By coming into contact with the previous One's Mero knew they'd soon be returning to the source and that the Matrix would get Reloaded. How do you think he knew the right time to escape before each Reloading?

Mero planned this as a way to attack The Architect (God) and all
that he created he wanted to see it destroyed...even if that ment his own deletion.

Boiiinng

11-12-2003, 12:53 AM

some thoughts of mine

By the time Neo is freed, Smith still had not copied everyone in the Matrix. When Neo goes to meet the Oracle, we see a bunch of everyday normal humans going about their business along the streets. Also, I think that the Merovingian hides out in his own private Matrix within the major Matrix. Remember in Reloaded how Neo says that the code is somehow different in the restaurant building. My guess is that the restaurant is in a building on top of the car garage that is attached to Club Hel: all one big protected world within the Matrix that Smith maybe doesn't know about. That's why I thought Mero was in the club in the first place, to further hide out from Smith.

NE0

11-12-2003, 01:25 AM

Neo's comments about the "code" being different could just be showing that Mero has put special security features into the building.

I don't think that anything could keep Smith out of Culb Hel and the other places Mero built no matter how could his security was. Smith is / was a rampaging virus that attacked anything and everything in The Matrix....except presumably Mero.

matrixobsessed0

11-12-2003, 01:26 AM

lots of speculation......i wish the wachowskis would've cleared this up for us...one of many unresolved issues with the trilogy...i have no idea what to thinkof mero and smith to be honest

nightbringer

11-12-2003, 01:38 AM

Rabbit

11-12-2003, 03:08 AM

Id go with "Seraph is the angel" deal,
"Mero is the Devil"
"Neo is Christ" and
"Smith is AC"

just seems to fit everyone.

Scythe

11-12-2003, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by thecastrated
I ask.. if Seraph is a former 1 then where are the other previous ones?:)

as Ne0 said...they returned to the source...Neo was the first to pick the door back to the Matrix becasue of Trinity.

I like Ne0s posts abou Seraph being frm the first matrix, really good idea.

Id like to see a game based on Seraph only...since they are gonna make a PS2 only game.

Rain

11-12-2003, 03:52 AM

I like the theory of the code being different in Merv's building and thus hiding him as we know that both Merv and the Trainman can design programs (i.e. the cake, Mobil Ave station) and thus it would make sense for Merv to have a world where he is god (devil=hell) but why doesnt he give any of his program bodyguard extra abilites in such a place - the ones in revolutions seem pretty piss weak as they get defeated by trinity and morpheus who can't defeat agents