The Prophecy

[Dan's_Gurl]

I was wondering what everyone else thinks the prophecy about Harry and Voldemort ment.I think it means tthat one has to kill the other at some point.What do you think it means?

[MagsXGill29]

I think they both have to die or something.

[FrodoLover]

no.... they dont both have to die. it just means that either harry has to kill voldemort or voldemort has to kill harry. its pretty simple

[jared2402]

It's pretty black and white................but I must admit, I had to read it twice before I got it

[Boods]

only one can kill the other thats why dumbledore couldnt kill voldemort at the end of OotP

[Mobycat]

Originally posted by Boods
only one can kill the other thats why dumbledore couldnt kill voldemort at the end of OotP

Not to mention - since Voldemort doesn't know that part of the Prophecy, he fears Dumbledore. He doesn't realize that Dumbledore can't kill him. (If he did, his fear of Dumbledore would be gone.)

[LOTRfan]

very important point mobycat...

[big_boy_01]

ohh i never thought of that VERY VERY good point thansk for that :D

[redman]

Originally posted by Mobycat
Not to mention - since Voldemort doesn't know that part of the Prophecy, he fears Dumbledore. He doesn't realize that Dumbledore can't kill him. (If he did, his fear of Dumbledore would be gone.)

holy crap.......

[redman]

did u think of that on ur own moby?

cause its a damn good point

[MagsXGill29]

ooooo, you're right :eek:

[Mobycat]

Originally posted by redman
did u think of that on ur own moby?

cause its a damn good point

My own. Dumbledore knows it - and that's why he tells Voldemort there are worse things than death. He doesn't want Voldemort to know, and he doesn't want to even hint at it to Voldemort. It also will keep Voldemort on his toes, because it's obvious he isn't sure what Dumbledore means when he says there are worse things than death. (my opinion, anyway)

[Tenafly Viper]

I think that Dumbledore is capable of beating Voldemort, but can't destroy him outright. And I would agree that if Voldemort was aware of this fact, it would change everything. I also believe that he will learn of it at some point over the next two books, and that will lead to an attack on Hogwarts itself. This isn't an original idea but one that I happen to agree with.
But when Dumbledore warns Voldemort, yes he's being crafty but I also think he genuinely means exactly what he's saying. I ultimately don't think the final showdown between Harry and Voldemort will be settled with either weapon or wand, I think Harry's inner power will play the biggest role in the conclusion. I also don't believe Harry will die in the end, I think he'll someday be Headmaster of Hogwarts, which would be fitting, for the heir of Godric Gryffindor which I believe Harry to be.
But then again I could be completely wrong, but it should be fun seeing what eventually happens.

[redman]

I hope harry doesnt die. It would be fitting to have harry as the Headmaster later on. (but i dont think JKR would go that far into the future). I just think harry will go and be an auror like he's always wanted.

[Tenafly Viper]

Originally posted by redman
I hope harry doesnt die. It would be fitting to have harry as the Headmaster later on. (but i dont think JKR would go that far into the future). I just think harry will go and be an auror like he's always wanted.

Harry becoming an Auror does seem like the most natural progression, and I could live with that as well.

[adnamasevoltam]

i thought the prophecy was pretty straight forward....and moby makes the most key observation that i think the prophecy entails...it was obvious to me that that was why it was imperitive for Voldemort to not hear it....for then he would fear no one....though i think that Dumbledore's claim is a sincere one as i do think he could do worse than death to Voldemort.....i also think that Dumbledore will die b/f book 7.....b/c Dumbledore also has one KEY weakness that was revealed....his love for Harry....and i think that shall be his downfall...*tears*....i dont forsee Voldemort going on an all out attack of Hogwarts though....b/c that is where Dumbledore is the most powerful and dangerous....

i also think the whole concept of Neville is extremely crucial too....though i cant say how just yet....but i think Neville has a key part to play b/f all is said and done...

[Tenafly Viper]

I really think Voldemort will eventually attack Hogwarts, especially once he finds out Harry is the only one that can stop him. Attacking Hogwarts was one of the few things he never tried during the first war and that was because of Dumbledore. Once his fear of Dumbledore is eclipsed by his fear of Harry. He'll have no choice but attack Harry and I think that will be at Hogwarts.

I also think there is a good chance Dumbledore as well as more then a few Wesleys won't live through the next two books. Dumbledore is in between Voldemort and Harry and it is inevitable that they must face one another, so he may die, but I hope not.

[Dan's_Gurl]

I thought he has already tried to attack harry at hogwarts. Remember the triwizard tournament?When he attacked harry wasn't that on school grounds?

[Rocksolidus]

actually, twice he tried to attack harry at hogwarts, once when fierenze came to the rescue, and then when harry and Krum were walking. not to cautious around dumbledore is he? he just might lose his life on the grounds!

[Willowisp]

Originally posted by Rocksolidus
actually, twice he tried to attack harry at hogwarts, once when fierenze came to the rescue, and then when harry and Krum were walking. not to cautious around dumbledore is he? he just might lose his life on the grounds!

Umm.. Well.. I am not sure that 1) deep in the forbidden forrest and 2) Barty Crouch Jr counts as an attack at Hogwarts.. although if I had to pick two attacks by Voldie on Harry at Hogwarts I would pick the fight for the stone at the climax of book 1, somewhere beneath (I presume) Hogwarts or the attack by the memory of Voldie, once again deep beneath Hogwarts in the CoS... *shrug*

[ultspidey]

Well let's look at the prophecy (I'm re-reading the book at have it at work)

"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies... And the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies..."

This is the line I don't quite get "And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... " both Harry and Voldemort are still alive though.

Also, re-reading the book I'm thinking Petunia's gonna have a role in the future and may even be a squib, that's why she's so bitter about her sister and always had Harry stay at Mrs. Figg's house, so he could always be in the care of someone "in the know". She obviously knows more about the Wizard community than she's letting on, might be an old theory, but one I just came up with.

[Isidien]

I had to read it a lot at first i thought it meant someone had 2 die out of harry or neville but that just because im a moron

[Mobycat]

Originally posted by ultspidey
Well let's look at the prophecy (I'm re-reading the book at have it at work)

"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies... And the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies..."

This is the line I don't quite get "And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... " both Harry and Voldemort are still alive though.


Well, it doesn't give a timeline, so it could happen anytime. Dumbledore has simply protected Harry to this point. Heck, it could go on for another 100 years, for all we know (isn't Dumbledore supposed to be around 150?) Obviously, I don't think it will last that long...what a crock that would be to end book seven with both still around.

[redman]

Originally posted by Mobycat
Well, it doesn't give a timeline, so it could happen anytime. Dumbledore has simply protected Harry to this point. Heck, it could go on for another 100 years, for all we know (isn't Dumbledore supposed to be around 150?) Obviously, I don't think it will last that long...what a crock that would be to end book seven with both still around.

highly unlikely i think

[Isidien]

they wouldn end the harry potter story like that especially since the whole thing is about harry and voldemort it wouldn be a proper ending they would have 2 write more than 7 books

[Rocksolidus]

i think it would be just awesome if harry murdered voldemort in cold blood without the use of wand or weapon. it would be so much of a closure to the story than just poisening him or something >

[Tenafly Viper]

Originally posted by Isidien
they wouldn end the harry potter story like that especially since the whole thing is about harry and voldemort it wouldn be a proper ending they would have 2 write more than 7 books By the end of it all both Harry and Tom Riddle may in fact still be alive. At least that's what I've heard people speculate. I personally hope it doesn't end this way.

As for Hogwarts being attacked I was thinking more of a full on Dark Lord & Deatheaters (and junior DEs) straightforward assault on the school. I mean Hogwarts has always been the main stage for the books, they are basically based on Harry's seven years at Hogwarts, I can't think of anywhere else more appropriate for Harry to eventually face Voldemort for the final time. But I'm sure JK has more then a few surprises up her sleeve.

[ultspidey]

I could see a full on assault by Voldemort's "army" (it's not just deatheaters that Voldemort's going to have on his side aren't dementors already with Voldemort). I almost think that the school setting is limiting the books now, a lot of the school stuff was great in the fifth book, but I was much more interested in what was going on with the bigger picture.

[Boiiinng]

I actually just finished reading the prophecy chapter, and I'm not so sure that Harry is still the "chosen" one. I think Neville might be the one.

Think of the phrase, "And the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not."

To me, "mark" means here to "acknowledge" or "identify." Voldemort loves purebloods, Neville is a pureblood. If Voldemort had read the rest of the prophecy, perhaps he would have chosen Neville instead. The reason I think this is because the phrase ends with "as his equal," which does not translate well into transferring powers to make him his equal. It seems as more of a thought than an action. It would rather read "And the Dark Lord will mark him to be his equal..."

[Angelixx]

i still think it makes more sense with Harry being the chosen one....both Harry and Volemort could be equal because they are both kinda half-bloods....well if anything Harry has more pure blood than Voldie does which is weird but HArry was 'marked' by Voldemort so hes really gota be the main chosen one cus like if it does turn out to be Neville then it would be pretty damn pointless to the whole plot of the book...be a bit of a dissapointment to be honest

[eclipsedman]

Originally posted by Boiiinng
I actually just finished reading the prophecy chapter, and I'm not so sure that Harry is still the "chosen" one. I think Neville might be the one.

Think of the phrase, "And the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not."

To me, "mark" means here to "acknowledge" or "identify." Voldemort loves purebloods, Neville is a pureblood. If Voldemort had read the rest of the prophecy, perhaps he would have chosen Neville instead. The reason I think this is because the phrase ends with "as his equal," which does not translate well into transferring powers to make him his equal. It seems as more of a thought than an action. It would rather read "And the Dark Lord will mark him to be his equal..."


SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN"T FINISHED OOTP














The scar is the "mark", Dumbledore said so and on the glass prophesy ball it has Harry named there.

[Angelixx]

lol thats what I thought...i was getting all confussled

[redman]

i think ppl are reading too much into it.

[boulderdash]

Trelwany's prediction emphasized that the one to defeat Voldemort would be born as the seventh month is ending, yet when she first met Harry, she guessed wrong about his birth, saying he was born in December or something. That may come in to play in the future as well, maybe not.

Also, and this is a crazy thought, when Harry got the scar from Voldemort, Dumbledore said that some of Voldemort's power's was transferred to Harry (Parsel-tongue as an example). What if, and this is a BIG what if, What if Voldemort also somehow transferred the part of him that is Tom Riddle into Harry, and the prophesy is talking about Tom Riddle defeating Voldemort? I don't know when Tom Riddle was born but if it was in the winter time, then that would explain the mistake by Trelawny, the confusion by the sorting hat, and the similarities between them. This could also explain Harry's powers without a wand, about him being a very powerful wizard for his age. The final conflict could be that Voldemort would kill "Harry" but really kill Tom Riddle, and Harry would kill Voldemort once that aspect of Voldemort is gone. Just thinking.

[HellaGood]

Okay I seriously dont understand that theory boulderdash. You do know Voldemort IS Tom Riddle yeh? Im confused...

[boulderdash]

Yes. Read it again. Voldemort and Tom Riddle are the same, but thay are seen as two distinct individuals, as shown by Dobby and other examples. This sort of goes with the flow of the other general thinking, particularly the Half Blood Prince part. But again, it is just a theory.

[Boiiinng]

Originally posted by eclipsedman
SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN"T FINISHED OOTP


The scar is the "mark", Dumbledore said so and on the glass prophesy ball it has Harry named there.

True but all that talk about Dumbledore doing the wrong thing throughout Harry's life really bothered me, and got me thinking that Dumbledore could be wrong. It is a prophecy and no one can figure a prophecy out until it comes to fruition.

Also, the ball says Harry Potter because that's who Voldemort chose. I'm sure that the prophecy jar was not made before the attack, because the prophecy did not specifically name either Neville or Harry.

Anyway doesn't it bother anyone else why the prophecy was archived at all? Why didn't Dumbledore just keep it to himself? By it being out there is the reason for a lot of the mess from this book. Seems kind of stupid to me.

Also, now that I think of it, the last chapter is titled "The Second War Begins", but no one talks about it, cept for the Daily Prophet catching up to speed on things, but even that doesn't mention the looming doom.

[Angelixx]

k one; I dont think DUmbledore really let it slip to the whole world...some death eater found out and reported it toVoldemort but was stopped before telling the whole thing

two; the prophecy is about HArry specifically BECAUSE Voldemort chose him

[Boiiinng]

Originally posted by Angelixx
k one; I dont think DUmbledore really let it slip to the whole world...some death eater found out and reported it toVoldemort but was stopped before telling the whole thing

two; the prophecy is about HArry specifically BECAUSE Voldemort chose him

the death eater left the Hog's head before the prophecy was finished

yes, the prophecy ball is labeled with Harry's name because Voldemort chose Harry, but the prophecy itself did not identify a person

[eclipsedman]

The prophesy jar mas made before the attack on Harry but it had a ? under it, Harry was written in after he was chosen by Voldemort and attacked. Its true that the prophesy didn't have a name on it at first cause there was two possibilities. But in OOTP Dumbledore puts it pretty plainy that Harry is the one in the prophesy.

[Angelixx]

Originally posted by Boiiinng
the death eater left the Hog's head before the prophecy was finished

yes, the prophecy ball is labeled with Harry's name because Voldemort chose Harry, but the prophecy itself did not identify a person
no ur right it didnt identify A person it identified TWO persons

[Boiiinng]

Originally posted by eclipsedman
The prophesy jar mas made before the attack on Harry but it had a ? under it, Harry was written in after he was chosen by Voldemort and attacked. Its true that the prophesy didn't have a name on it at first cause there was two possibilities. But in OOTP Dumbledore puts it pretty plainy that Harry is the one in the prophesy.

right, but all I'm saying is Dumbledore could be wrong......

[HellaGood]

It said Voldemort would mark him as his equal. Voldemort marked Harry. Therefore the prophecy is now definitely referring to Harry.

[Angelixx]

yes .......and dumbledore cant really be wrong because fae has made it tat way......seriously dumbledores right

[timmy two shoes]

I think one of them should die off.

[Angelixx]

**gasp**who what now??? one of who??

[Boiiinng]

Originally posted by HellaGood
It said Voldemort would mark him as his equal. Voldemort marked Harry. Therefore the prophecy is now definitely referring to Harry.

if you read my earlier post you would see that i stated that the prophecy is not worded good enough for me to fully accept "mark" as a physical action, then again Rowling isn't that great of a writer, so I don't doubt that she just made a mistake in writing it.

[Angelixx]

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **runs away screaming and covering ears**

**silently cries* if ur gonna insult JK Rowling then u dont gotta go home but u gotta get the hell outta here!

[harry potter fa]

Hello what we talkin bout?

[Laterose]

u don't want to know lol

[Boiiinng]

Originally posted by Angelixx
BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **runs away screaming and covering ears**

**silently cries* if ur gonna insult JK Rowling then u dont gotta go home but u gotta get the hell outta here!

I'm not insulting, I'm giving my opinion. She was getting better with each book, up to POA, flatlined at GOF, then with OOTP, she started getting worse again, very inconsistent. I'm not saying I hate her writing, I'm just saying that she shouldn't be considered a great writer just because she's created great characters. Heck, I can hardly stand Tolkien most of the time. He's not a good novelist either, he's an excellent historian, and that's how I look at him, but a writer? no.

[Angelixx]

ya i agree with you on tolkien..but JK Rowling is an amazing story teller is what I think...she can drop little details in her story and just pull you along...in my opinion shes one of the best writers I have read from...honestly if it wasnt for her i never would have actually gotten into reading....Harry Potter got me off the damn couch and away from the tv

[Laterose]

While I love my man Tolkien, JK's writing is so much simplier and easier to follow, making her a great writer.

[daughterofeve]

Hmmm.. Tolkien did great on The Hobbit.. but LoTR was just a teeeeeny bit sluggish at times..
JK truly is an awesome writer, and very detail oriented....

But C.S. Lewis' Narnia series was and always will be my first and only true love, it's brilliant. You could compare the size of the WHOLE series in the combined paperback with all seven- to the spine of OOP. It's almost the same thickness... yet just one Narnia book- compared with a Potter book- has the same amount of content, albiet with MUCH fewer words (about 100 pages in each book) ...that man was a Genius!

..but this is a Potter forum.. so I'm still very loyal to JK, she sure does know how to keep us all guessing, and that's what i Love about it.

[Angelixx]

lol true the chronicles of narnia were some fantastic books!! i read them over about four times each btu they are extrememly quick reads for me i can read them in a day...gr8 none the less

however im still a true hp fan at heart

[smith42687]

Lets see... JK got BILLIONS of kids and adults off of the TV and the computer and to a book.

Your argument that she isn't a good writer doesn't seem to hold much ground. Harry Potter is one of the very few things that the entire world seems to agree on.

Maybe the best writer of all time. Sure is the most successful financially and getting people to read. Hell, I've only read 6 books by choice ever (thank you Nintendo) and 5 were HP and one was "The Adventures of Doctor Dolittle"... I think. So long ago I can't even remember the full title, but was worth 45 points on the reading program in 5th grade. ;)

HP book>all.

[Boiiinng]

Originally posted by smith42687
Lets see... JK got BILLIONS of kids and adults off of the TV and the computer and to a book.

Your argument that she isn't a good writer doesn't seem to hold much ground. Harry Potter is one of the very few things that the entire world seems to agree on.

Maybe the best writer of all time. Sure is the most successful financially and getting people to read. Hell, I've only read 6 books by choice ever (thank you Nintendo) and 5 were HP and one was "The Adventures of Doctor Dolittle"... I think. So long ago I can't even remember the full title, but was worth 45 points on the reading program in 5th grade. ;)

HP book>all.

And here we are, back on the computer, and watching movies. Being a good writer and being a popular author are two different things.

[daughterofeve]

ahh.. yes, but the very fact that the books are popular, proves that she is good at what she does!

besides, have you ever read a great book, then got all excited and told you friends-only to find out that they'd never heard of it, and werent even interested?
This is one reason why Harry Potter is cherished by some people- it's a conversation starter, it's an icebreaker, it's another thing in common with people.
It's not just a book series now, it's a community!

[disneynut04]

I think that Hermione will become a headmaster, Harry an aurora(sp) and Ron, well i'm not to sure about him...but i do think Ron and Hermione will become and item...not that i want them to...as i'm rooting for Harry and Hermione but oh well...i also think Lupin has a thing for Lily...any comments

[Angelixx]

all harry/hermione shippers must be wrong......if i ever see dan/emma all hell will break loose...or well i will release it anyway... me and sparkle shal lead the way

and yes i think lupin has a thing for Lily also

[Boiiinng]

Originally posted by daughterofeve
ahh.. yes, but the very fact that the books are popular, proves that she is good at what she does!

No, her writing should prove that. Britney Spears is popular, is she good at what she does? Bad example, but you see what I mean. Popularity breeds a thinning of the artistic realm. Keeping it fresh and new is what keeps art fascinating. POA captivated me, I couldn't put it down. Like I said, it was her best work. But GOF and OOTP I kind of struggled through, just to know what happened in the story, but the reading of the novel became work, not a release.

I am glad that they are switching directors on the films now. It keeps them fresh and new. Like a comic book, writers hang around on a title for 6 months or so, then a new one comes on board. And these titles have survived for 40, 50, 60+ years, not because they were popular, that's for sure, but because they were always trying something new and fresh.

[daughterofeve]

AHEM! I believe it is read in better context if you would aknowledge my next paraghraph!

besides, have you ever read a great book, then got all excited and told you friends-only to find out that they'd never heard of it, and werent even interested?
This is one reason why Harry Potter is cherished by some people- it's a conversation starter, it's an icebreaker, it's another thing in common with people.
It's not just a book series now, it's a community!

there is ALWAYS something new and fresh when you are able to get someone elses POV about stuff- it gets ya thinking in a whole new level... well, at least thats what it does for me...

[Boiiinng]

Don't AHEM me! You keep talking about the community and the discussions and the popularity, fine, I'm talking about the material, and since I obviously have not explained myself enough I will stop discussing this and leave you to your dillusions of grandeur. Good day.

[Angelixx]

well if u listened properly then maybe u would get that Eve is trying to explain that because it is so popular it basically is a good example that the material is good too!! she can drop little hints in her writing that we dont even pick up! as she writes u can just tell that almost every word could give you clues......the fact that her books and her "material" can draw kids away from the tv and hook them into her book shows that she is an amazingly talented writer....i know just from my personal experience her books actually made me anticipate getting off of school so that i could read instead of watching the tv....i used to spend my entire day watching tv but now i actually have a life....her books and "material" inpsired me to start writing myself.....i think many ppl would agree that her "material" is pure genius.

[HellaGood]

Angel are you on a rampage today? lol

[Angelixx]

maybe just a little bit...ppl have been bugging me all week...complaining and being jacka**s.....im not in that mood to play nice......im in the mood to speak my mind..its so much easier

[jared2402]

Here, have some chocolate

[Angelixx]

:lol: omg everytime someone says something sad with my friends now we all say.....ah what the h*** have some chocolate

lol **chuckles**

[HellaGood]

LOL Go Jared!

I'm gonna have to find that thing and read it again now! lol

[Xander]

I hope The Prophecy means both Harry and Voldy have to die, that would be so ****ing epicly-typical!

[Angelixx]

well....sadly I think that's the only right way to end the series.....I mean if Voldemort wins at the end....then everyone will be ticked.....what a waste of time it would be to have read the books.....if Harry wins and Voldemort dies and everythign is all happy happy fairy tale ending...itll make me sick and it'll kinda be cheesy......but if they both die....there cant be an ending where everything is all happy or really depressing....its really the only way....unless JK Rowling uses some of that genius of hers **crosses fingers**

I just pray to God we dont get another speech of "our loved ones never really leave us...they are always in our hearts" im sorry but when Gary Oldman did that speech I wanted to cry cus I was so ticked that they had to ruin the movies good streak with that peice of crap!!! ok ive vented and i feel better

**eats chocolate**

[HellaGood]

Yeah, I didn't really see the significance of that at all. It was like they were trying to make the film have some sort of moral, even though it had next to nothing to do with the rest of the story!

[Angelixx]

exactly....they just wanted a really touching moment to finish off the movie