Matrix Reloaded - Issues (don't read if you haven't seen it yet)

[MatrixHasBeenOD]

I agree with the review on here 95% Here is what I really hated the most:

1.) I was disappointed with Zion. Every scene in Zion gave off that same "typical sci-fi" movie feel with the captains, ships, and officers everywhere. The first movie gave such a bleak, scares, hopeless appeal too - the second painted much more active picture with Zion being the way they made it.

2.) The "caveman" scene in the caves when the Zion folk were partying, while Neo and Trinity got their freak on back in their room. It seemed too raunchy, not sci-fi at all, completely unnecessary. Didn't fit in with the rest of the movie at all, they should delete it in the DVD release!! The "crotch-n-code" scene where the cake eating lady had an orgasm, unwarranted. Looking at Martrix 1, I know it never would have been in that film. That was not Matrix worthy humor, that was stupid. These two scenes bothered me on the same level, they were both raunchy and out of place.

3.) The One turning out to be a pawn and not a savior, unless someone is lying - kinda freaky.

4.) I liked the confusing ending presented by the Architect (even though it's kinda heartbreaking to find out the Oracle is a program that is technically bad, as she helped the architect structure the Matrix and fix his initial problems), it was challenging. But the whole Neo having his powers in the supposed real world, a twist I didn't wanna swallow. It makes me think, was anyone ever really out of the Matrix? Or when Neo chose a door, maybe he never left?

5.) Agent Smith coming back as a liberated program on his own personal vendetta is OK. But infecting other entities, multiplying, and even digitally possessing people who can then leave the Matrix with him still in their minds to roam free in the real world is just going too far (but based on the ending, maybe he's not in the real world because maybe no one is, even when they leave the Matrix, this ties in with my last item).

6.) The feeling of the first movie, the story's aura, everything - this movie wasn't the same. It wasn't as raw and sweet, it was overkill. Probably because at first they had no intention of making more movies - so they basically had to pull stuff out of their a$$es, which explains Reloaded's funny vibe. The 3rd movie better touch some roots.

[spooker]

overall its a overkill to the mind ,,,
oooooooooooooooooooo

its mind bending............................

persephone ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, kiss kiss

[MatrixHasBeenOD]

Whoa there...

[spooker]

im totalllly confused with Mr architect ,, what the @#@#@ is he talking about ,,,

i kinda understand what his saying , but , then again ,, huh ???
Anomaly er what ????

god knows if zion is another programm .......... pffffzzz

[hokiemax]

Originally posted by MatrixHasBeenOD
I agree with the review on here 95% Here is what I really hated the most:

1.) I was disappointed with Zion. Every scene in Zion gave off that same "typical sci-fi" movie feel with the captains, ships, and officers everywhere. The first movie gave such a bleak, scares, hopeless appeal too - the second painted much more active picture with Zion being the way they made it.

2.) The "caveman" scene in the caves when the Zion folk were partying, while Neo and Trinity got their freak on back in their room. It seemed too raunchy, not sci-fi at all, completely unnecessary. Didn't fit in with the rest of the movie at all, they should delete it in the DVD release!! The "crotch-n-code" scene where the cake eating lady had an orgasm, unwarranted. Looking at Martrix 1, I know it never would have been in that film. That was not Matrix worthy humor, that was stupid. These two scenes bothered me on the same level, they were both raunchy and out of place.

3.) The One turning out to be a pawn and not a savior, unless someone is lying - kinda freaky.

4.) I liked the confusing ending presented by the Architect (even though it's kinda heartbreaking to find out the Oracle is a program that is technically bad, as she helped the architect structure the Matrix and fix his initial problems), it was challenging. But the whole Neo having his powers in the supposed real world, a twist I didn't wanna swallow. It makes me think, was anyone ever really out of the Matrix? Or when Neo chose a door, maybe he never left?

5.) Agent Smith coming back as a liberated program on his own personal vendetta is OK. But infecting other entities, multiplying, and even digitally possessing people who can then leave the Matrix with him still in their minds to roam free in the real world is just going too far (but based on the ending, maybe he's not in the real world because maybe no one is, even when they leave the Matrix, this ties in with my last item).

6.) The feeling of the first movie, the story's aura, everything - this movie wasn't the same. It wasn't as raw and sweet, it was overkill. Probably because at first they had no intention of making more movies - so they basically had to pull stuff out of their a$$es, which explains Reloaded's funny vibe. The 3rd movie better touch some roots.

This is EXACTLY how I feel. I couldn't have said it better.

[Chodaboy]

I found the architect part funny.....the editors must have looked at what they wrote and been like WTF??? and they were too lazy to change it so they just made the architect say that "because you are human some of this you will not understand"
I liked it

[gauze28]

Originally posted by MatrixHasBeenOD
I agree with the review on here 95% Here is what I really hated the most:

1.) I was disappointed with Zion. Every scene in Zion gave off that same "typical sci-fi" movie feel with the captains, ships, and officers everywhere. The first movie gave such a bleak, scares, hopeless appeal too - the second painted much more active picture with Zion being the way they made it.

2.) The "caveman" scene in the caves when the Zion folk were partying, while Neo and Trinity got their freak on back in their room. It seemed too raunchy, not sci-fi at all, completely unnecessary. Didn't fit in with the rest of the movie at all, they should delete it in the DVD release!! The "crotch-n-code" scene where the cake eating lady had an orgasm, unwarranted. Looking at Martrix 1, I know it never would have been in that film. That was not Matrix worthy humor, that was stupid. These two scenes bothered me on the same level, they were both raunchy and out of place.

3.) The One turning out to be a pawn and not a savior, unless someone is lying - kinda freaky.

4.) I liked the confusing ending presented by the Architect (even though it's kinda heartbreaking to find out the Oracle is a program that is technically bad, as she helped the architect structure the Matrix and fix his initial problems), it was challenging. But the whole Neo having his powers in the supposed real world, a twist I didn't wanna swallow. It makes me think, was anyone ever really out of the Matrix? Or when Neo chose a door, maybe he never left?

5.) Agent Smith coming back as a liberated program on his own personal vendetta is OK. But infecting other entities, multiplying, and even digitally possessing people who can then leave the Matrix with him still in their minds to roam free in the real world is just going too far (but based on the ending, maybe he's not in the real world because maybe no one is, even when they leave the Matrix, this ties in with my last item).

6.) The feeling of the first movie, the story's aura, everything - this movie wasn't the same. It wasn't as raw and sweet, it was overkill. Probably because at first they had no intention of making more movies - so they basically had to pull stuff out of their a$$es, which explains Reloaded's funny vibe. The 3rd movie better touch some roots.

1) no comment

2) orgy scene is a rip-off of dune.

3) really good twist. It's what saved the movie for me, otherwise I might not have liked this one

4) again great plot twist, made me like the movie. As for Neo having power outside of the MAtrix, my impression was that since he was a pawn he had a link to them and could shut them down, although he seemed to get hurt pretty bad in the process.

5) possibly, didnt think about that too much

[jpdill]

How long does the sex scenes go on for? Do you see Trinity naked for long and what kind is it? And the woman with the orgasm - is it like visible orgy?

[Pinesol13]

Originally posted by jpdill
How long does the sex scenes go on for? Do you see Trinity naked for long and what kind is it? And the woman with the orgasm - is it like visible orgy?



...dork:rolleyes:







anyways, i got a question. did anybody else pick up on the fact that the 2 twins with the dreadlocks were vampires?

[Pinesol13]

my thoughts.......



went to see the matrix last night. of course there was a very crazy crowd, but I didnt mind that, it actually helped with the atmosphere. but there was this 1 dork who tried to dress up as Neo....sunglasses, trenchcoat, and slick hair......but he ended up loooking really stupid and was laughed at by everyone.

anyways, the movie...................dissapointing. the 1st thing that was dissapointing was the amount of cgi. there are parts where Neo's entire body is cgi. and in a lot of shots Zion is 90% cgi. I really didnt like that. It reminded me a whole lot of Star Wars, and I didnt want to be reminded of Star Wars.
I didnt like the over all feel of the movie. the 1st one "blew your mind" because just the idea of The Matrix was a new idea, and it was so crazy. and the fact that they could do all those crazy stunts was pretty cool too. but now...since we already know they can do those things and we already know about the Matrix....i needed something else to blow my mind again...........something to make me say ..."whoah". It almost came through on that point, but in the end it didnt deliver. The 1st one also felt more edgy. it had more grit to it. but Matrix 2 feels glossed over. Its kinda hard to describe how I feel about it. There are a lot of things I like about it. mostly just individual things that were just really cool.


so, again..dissapointing. It felt a lot like just a regular super-hero movie. It didnt really feeel like The Matrix half of the time. I still liked the movie, but not as much as I wish I did.

[MatrixHasBeenOD]

Eliminate the orgy scene, and the movie would have been 10x better.

[Pinesol13]

do you mean the party scene, or the scene of neo and trinity getting their groove thang on?


if they had filmed the party scene different, i would've liked it more....and as far as the neo/trinity sex scene....I dont see why they should get rid of it? maybe shorten it a little...but i thought it was necessary to really see that they loved eachother, a lot.

[Finelli]

Originally posted by spooker
im totalllly confused with Mr architect ,, what the @#@#@ is he talking about ,,,

i kinda understand what his saying , but , then again ,, huh ???
Anomaly er what ????



The architect was explaining to Neo that he had already been to him before. 6 times. Neo is special because he actually represents a mathematical "probability", not an equation. The Matrix has no equation or solution for what he is, so he in fact is really free to do as he pleases while in it, unlike everyone else who can eventually be figured out. The 6 previous times he's made it to the Source, he had chosen the other door and chosen to shut down the Matrix, thinking he'd saved mankind. The thing that Neo did not know was that the architect himself was actually RELOADING the Matrix again and making everyone, including Neo, run through their steps all over. The difference this time is that Neo actually decided to use his heart and save Trinity, not the world.. this lead him to decide to open the other door.. now the Matrix has been shut down and the war will have to be fought.

[Pinesol13]

I dont think it's been Neo who's visited the source all 6 times. each time it was a different person. it was whoever happened to be "the one" that time. and each time "the one" chose the door to save the human race, with 7 males and 14 females. once the human race was restarted, he told them what he learned from the source. that at some point in the future, a man would come who could end the war. and that's what the prophecy is.

[Fanible]

Wasn't this exact same post in the Matrix forum?

[Fanible]

Originally posted by Pinesol13
I dont think it's been Neo who's visited the source all 6 times. each time it was a different person. it was whoever happened to be "the one" that time. and each time "the one" chose the door to save the human race, with 7 males and 14 females. once the human race was restarted, he told them what he learned from the source. that at some point in the future, a man would come who could end the war. and that's what the prophecy is.

Yes I agree. I think it was simply Neo's thoughts that were showing up on the screen.

[spooker]

agree with pinesol ,,, neo is the sixth person ,,,
and regarding the thing he did in the real world against the sentinel , somehow he stopped the sentinel ,, i felt like laughing , heheh but whoahh heheeh not bad :)
probably he has somekinda telepathic ability , human sixth sense,
and thats why his different and able to make the reall change ....

[Finelli]

Originally posted by Fanible
Wasn't this exact same post in the Matrix forum?

Is there a Matrix forum here?

Originally posted by Pinesol13
I dont think it's been Neo who's visited the source all 6 times. each time it was a different person. it was whoever happened to be "the one" that time. and each time "the one" chose the door to save the human race, with 7 males and 14 females. once the human race was restarted, he told them what he learned from the source. that at some point in the future, a man would come who could end the war. and that's what the prophecy is.

Neo had been there 5 previous times. the architect even showed him in the screens with his previous reactions at those times. Neo is the ONLY ONE. The reason he had been there five times was because he kept deciding to shut it down to save the humans, but all he did was give the architect the chance to restart, thus running the loop again.

NOW.. with that being said, how can he keep doing this you ask? Zion is actually another Matrix. How else could Smith have gotten into it? he's a program. A program has no real life. That itself should tell you that Zion is another huge program. A second thing that tells you this is the fact that Neo actually stopped the sentinels. His abilities are so fine-tuned from the Matrix that he can now sense them in this other program. That's 2 ways that they let you know what is to come. So basically, you're looking at it through REAL time, our time, when in fact the entire time of Zion is also measured as a program. The Matrix that the architect is referring to INCLUDES Zion and all the events in it. THE HUMANS ARE ALL PART OF THE PROGRAM TOO!! WHEN THEY THINK THEY'VE REVOLTED OUTSIDE OF THE MATRIX, THEY THINK THEY'RE FREE, BUT THEY'RE STILL IN THE MATRIX. SO THE MATRIX WE KNOW OF IS ACTUALLY A MATRIX WITHIN A MATRIX!!!

[rasded]

I like Reloaded allot,In fact Ive seen it twice already and seeing again on sunday.I admit there were some scenes that should have been cut..Like the Orgazm thing.But in a sence I think the directors were trying to explain something.Not sure what though?

The kung fu seemed to be better and the action.


They worked damn hard making this movie.People got hurt,gruling hours of training,Sleepless nights trying to figure out whats going to work on screen.

I was Impressed and thats all I have to say.

[glorfindel1898]

Neo had been there 5 previous times. the architect even showed him in the screens with his previous reactions at those times. Neo is the ONLY ONE. The reason he had been there five times was because he kept deciding to shut it down to save the humans, but all he did was give the architect the chance to restart, thus running the loop again. NOW.. with that being said, how can he keep doing this you ask? Zion is actually another Matrix. How else could Smith have gotten into it? he's a program. A program has no real life. That itself should tell you that Zion is another huge program. A second thing that tells you this is the fact that Neo actually stopped the sentinels. His abilities are so fine-tuned from the Matrix that he can now sense them in this other program. That's 2 ways that they let you know what is to come. So basically, you're looking at it through REAL time, our time, when in fact the entire time of Zion is also measured as a program. The Matrix that the architect is referring to INCLUDES Zion and all the events in it. THE HUMANS ARE ALL PART OF THE PROGRAM TOO!! WHEN THEY THINK THEY'VE REVOLTED OUTSIDE OF THE MATRIX, THEY THINK THEY'RE FREE, BUT THEY'RE STILL IN THE MATRIX. SO THE MATRIX WE KNOW OF IS ACTUALLY A MATRIX WITHIN A MATRIX!!!

Sorry, pal, you're absolutely WRONG!

It was not Neo who visited the Architect 5 previous times. It was those individuals (whom-so-ever were dubbed as "One"s during each subsequent rebellion) that came to the Arcitect, each guided, like Neo, by the Oracle.

I cant believe you thought that the clips of Neo on the screens behind him were from all the other times Neo had seen the Arcitect!!? How'd you come up with that? All you had to do was listen to the conversation between Neo & Architect. The whole thing, just like several other conversations in the movie, centered around this idea: Are we free to make choices on our own ? (aka Free-will vs. predeterminism) or, in other words, how we react in given situations.....

What was being shown on the screens was clearly not from

Neo's 5 previous visits (first off, there were way more than 5 reactions being played - there were 50+ screens) ...they were all of NEo's possible reactions to the things the Architect was telling him. The whole time, the architect was predicting and analyzing Neo's reactions......when Neo has to pick 1 of the 2 doors, the architect starts analyzing Neo's thoughts and emotions.

Also, as far as "Matrix within a Matrix" --- no way.....

Before the Burly Brawl, Neo and Smith have a quick talk about the way Smith was freed when Neo jumped into Smith at the end of the first movie. It mentions in vague language how they are somehow connected/changed. B/c they "combined" briefly, Smith has moved a bit closer to humanity, just as Neo has moved a bit closer to machines. Now smith is more connected to humans (he inhabits Bane in the real world) , like Neo now has some connection to machines in the real world (psychically stops the squiddies).

On a purely unrelated note- "A Elbereth Gilthoniel!!!!"

[LegolasIsntSexy]

this movie was too damn confusing

[Frodo284]

ok here are my ?'s....you all are arguing back and forth about what the aritecht guy was explaining. Who is right and whois wrong....? we have come to the conclusion that this process has all been done 6 times before. we are a little unsure of if it were neo all these times or just different so called..."ones"...I was more confsed one what happened when he went through the door and it exploded...why did it do that? was the oracle bad? i missed the explanation at the end. what was the deal with someting exploded or something and everyone died but one? di dthe machines get to zion or what happened? I am confused. I kind of like the deal w/ maybe a matrix inside the matrix. it was weird how he stopped the sentinels. Maybe he is just powerful like that, but he did say b4 he did it that something was different. Maybe he was starting to realize that. oh i'm so confused but all i know is that the truck wreck did it for me..that was the ****nit :) ;) :)

[KHOG]

overall, it was a good movie, but i think i would apreciate it more the more i watch it, although i think some scenes were not needed or tooooo slowww.

a few notes conserning the interpretation of some things.
one thing i noticed and i think some of you have too, are the plugs on Neo's body as well as trinity and the crew! especialy Neo's since you might recall from the first movie that they were REMOVED when they freed him from the Matrix!! What happened now? they put them back?

also, when Neo stopped the machines in the "real world", there are a few possibilities. one was already mentioned that Zion is a Matrix within a Matrix. but you might not have thought about the second one: right after destroyed the machines, another ship arrived to pick them up. perhaps that ship used the EMP (electo-magnetic pulse) at the exact moment that Neo though he's moves still work outside the Matrix (emp only affects electonic devices, no humans).

it would've been cool to see in action that robot that was driven by a man.

the kissing part was totaly like elementary school... "kiss me and i'll give you my chocolate bar".... please

a huge dissapointment was the Music.. come on guys.. wtf... i was expecting something kicking during the fight scenes... the bad music choice took alot of the excitement away.

when Neo was with the Architect, all those screens were showing all possible reactions that Neo could have to a given action. The this case, it was his reaction to the conversation with the Architect.

the explosion at the end was from the bomb that was in the building i think. the power get restored and the bomb went off??

i am sure my thought about the movie and the story will change after seeing it a few more times.

that's my piece of mind...

[darkma773r]

Well, i have to say i was dissapointed and impressed in Reloaded all at the same time.

The Good:
-great fight scenes
-funky kung fu
-great highway chase
-good plot twists
-neo flys super fast and everything behind him explodes.

The Bad:
-some out of place songs
-some weird sound effects( i noticed that the swords always sound exactly the same)
-first 15 min. are confusing and out of place

The Ugly
-almost everyone talks in weird big words.
-weird "make you think" lines like "we dont make choices, choices are made, we have to understand that choices arent choices and thats a choice that we have to make even though it makes no difference"
-one part was like a bad rap music video orgy. (could have done w/o the whole sex thing)
-I always imaginied Zion smaller, and not as high tech. But it is massive
-the whole cake/woman thing was out of place and really cheasy/stupid/unnessary
-black sunglasses on EVERYONE


What really ticked me off was the first 15 min.
it was so horrible, i almost walked out of the theater!
The scenes jumped all over, had no transitions, no lead in, and no flow. After that, it was decent, and i forgot how pissed i was.

Overall, it was a poorly told story with hyped special effects.
At times, neo looked like a rubber doll, flying, bouncing, and twirling around like a fairy.

The supporting roles sucked big time. No character development at all. What the hell is up with Morphous and that other capt. dude?! I picked up that they were jealous about that Niobe girl, who did jack squat. What happened to tank? Now there is just some other black guy in his place.

This is what neo says at the end of the first one:
(Phone)
Neo, The One: I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone and then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you, a world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries, a world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.

What does this have to do with reloaded?! it dosent tie in very well, it almost seems to tie in with the revolutions rather than reloaded.

And whats up with the "neo has power in the real world" thing!? I think that he probably swithed some powers with agent smith. Now smith is a little human, and neo is a little machine.

all in all, it was decent and worth watching again it did not live up to all the hype. A great story written by theWachowski bros., they just need a good director to convey it better.

[nslam]

I thought the reason Neo was in a coma because he was poisoned by Persephone's lipstick. Monica Belluci stated that she doesn't fight in the movie, but there are other way to be dangerous. "Kiss of death"

[darkma773r]

i dont think that the kiss is what put him in a coma, it just wouldnt fit.

Then again, not many of the peices in reloaded fit well together so it is possible.

[Frodo284]

I will agree a bit w/ u on the smith having human and neo having machine...b/c smith bled if u remember towards the end and he was cutting his hand, but besides that...your weird.. you don't listen well do you.
B/c it is a differnet sword doesnt mean it comes manufactured w/ differnt sound effects...talk about being picky
I will agree that everyone talks weird, but this is a philisophical movie..you don't expect them to say instead...the cat is from the species of choices blahb lah blahc...they are not going to say, "the cat comes from a lion" i mean they just don't explain things in this movie that well, you just have to adapt to the movie, it doens't adapt to you.
i will agree on the zion orgy scene, it was ok, but needed to be cut.
the cake/woman/orgasm, was unnecessary, but maybe they found it humourous (the directors) and it kind of went along w/ what the french dude was saying...well kind of
black sunglasses, that's not an issue, they have all been wearing those since the first one.
the first 15 min consisted of a dream sequence and such, dreams are usually weird.
the whole rubber doll comment...IT'S CGI, get use to it, it' snot perfect yet and that's what the world is using. look at how it looked good, not bad, it could have llookked MUCH worse
supporting actors were poorly developed, but they will have bigger parts in 3, most of them.
maybe u need to watch matrix 2 again, but if u listened to Link's wife, you would have heard her say that she was sad b/c dozer and tank were dead, he was badly wounded in the first one, no one said he would make it.
and as for the way the first one ended, it was just leaving it opened for a sequel. he was going to free people, duh!!!!
get your facts st8 dude

[lechuck13]

I agree completely with finelli. I especially agree with the matrix within a matrix part.

I view Zion as a kind of... spillover trough, like around really fancy bathtubs. If any water (or people) spill out of the bath (or become enlightened), then they're caught by the spillover trough (or zion, a second matrix).

[lechuck13]

Originally posted by darkma773r
almost everyone talks in weird big words.

Well, if that's a bad thing in your opinion, then maybe you should've skipped this and seen Anger Management or Malibu's Most Wanted.

Originally posted by darkma773r
What does this have to do with reloaded?! it dosent tie in very well, it almost seems to tie in with the revolutions rather than reloaded.

Did you even watch the last 15 minutes?!? Or did you just tune out because of all the "weird big words"? :rolleyes:

[ILOVEKATIE]

This movie sounds too complicated, by the things you guys are saying about the film it looks to me the movie kind of sucked or wasn't satisfying, I'm going to see it tomorrow, I hope I like it.

[ImJacksAmygdala]

Originally posted by glorfindel1898
Sorry, pal, you're absolutely WRONG!

It was not Neo who visited the Architect 5 previous times. It was those individuals (whom-so-ever were dubbed as "One"s during each subsequent rebellion) that came to the Arcitect, each guided, like Neo, by the Oracle.

I cant believe you thought that the clips of Neo on the screens behind him were from all the other times Neo had seen the Arcitect!!? How'd you come up with that? All you had to do was listen to the conversation between Neo & Architect. The whole thing, just like several other conversations in the movie, centered around this idea: Are we free to make choices on our own ? (aka Free-will vs. predeterminism) or, in other words, how we react in given situations.....

What was being shown on the screens was clearly not from

Neo's 5 previous visits (first off, there were way more than 5 reactions being played - there were 50+ screens) ...they were all of NEo's possible reactions to the things the Architect was telling him. The whole time, the architect was predicting and analyzing Neo's reactions......when Neo has to pick 1 of the 2 doors, the architect starts analyzing Neo's thoughts and emotions.

Also, as far as "Matrix within a Matrix" --- no way.....

Before the Burly Brawl, Neo and Smith have a quick talk about the way Smith was freed when Neo jumped into Smith at the end of the first movie. It mentions in vague language how they are somehow connected/changed. B/c they "combined" briefly, Smith has moved a bit closer to humanity, just as Neo has moved a bit closer to machines. Now smith is more connected to humans (he inhabits Bane in the real world) , like Neo now has some connection to machines in the real world (psychically stops the squiddies).

On a purely unrelated note- "A Elbereth Gilthoniel!!!!"

Ok I just saw the movie and I had to hit the net to make sense of what the hell happened. I like the two main theories of a matrix and a zion matrix and the latter theory of smith and neo becoming part of each other bridging the symbiotic relationship of man and machine.

I am more inclined to entertain the thought of glorfindel1898 that the Man and Machine theory is more likely. I believe Finelli is absolutely correct that Neo is an anomoly because Neo represents a mathematical "probability", not an equation (I applaud you for helping me understand this) The screens in the architect room were the possible reactions of Neo's possible probability outcomes to give the architect time to reload the matrix becuase Neo represents a mathematical "probability", not an equation, and the architect did not know what door Neo would choose, but there are some supporting facts to the Man and Machine theory.

Also Neo may have not been the one and only anomaly the architect has had to deal with. I think the Oracles original purpose was to find anomalies and report them but instead became a rouge program that survives or has some other motive. When the councilor was talking to Neo they explored the symbiotic relationship of man and machine. The architect telling Neo he can choose 7 men and 14 women (not sure the exact numbers) to repopulate Zion makes me think that the council of Zion are those survivors from previus anomilies failing. Look at the age groups of Zion and the age of the council!

Smith copied himself into the phone, he has a part of Neo, and was able to survive in a Human body in Zion and tried to kill Neo in the hall way with the knife.

Neo has a part of Smith and has control over Matrix code, but in the real world he has power over machines! Thats how he stopped the squiddies. Entering the Scource may have facilitated what Neo thought was "Something Different".

It is Ironic that Smith hates Neo so much for the human race being a all consuming virus when Smith himself has become a rouge program that can copy himself indefinatley, otherwise known as a virus.

Smith may want to kill Neo in Zion based on the sole fact that the part of Neo that entered Smith made Smith become what he hates so much.

The last supporting fact of the matrix's affects on the real world is not only that the machine in Neo can stop the Squiddies, but the last sole survivor that was picked up was the guy that Smith entered into the phone to enter the real world and kill Neo. The squiddies let Smith survive because they can somehow sense the machine in him.

The movie is also emphisising the importance of choices. The first matrix attempt failed because the human mind couldn't survive without the holocust of bad choices! Not actually the holocust and world wars.... Neo takes the form of a mathematical probability in the matrix that the architect can't solve for because he can't preload false choices which is another reason Neo was never happy before he was freed in the first movie. The freedom of choice plays a very important role in this movie and should not be overlooked. This could also be how Neo corrupted Smith. The french guy babbled about choices and so did the oracle and the architect. I think even the councilor did.

What I don't understand fully is the Oracle's motives, how many times Zion has been rebuilt, and how the old council members fit in. The council seemed to be more concerned with Neo than protecting Zion. I think they all know more about whats going on. The french guy and the oracle seemed to understand how choices are supposed to work in the matrix like they are scripts in a program. Or like vase falling in the first movie. The oracle may have some ability to write scripts, but she doesn't have full control of Neo's unknown probabilies.

I am almost sure Zion isn't another matrix. Zion might also be kept around to create anomolies for bug testing the matrix because the architect is trying to solve for the anomoly and once he has perfected the matrix by fixing the anomoly he doesn't want Zion to free more "rogue probabilities" that can contine to screw things up which is why the machines have a plan B to survive in the case that all the human farms die.

I hope this post has helped add something meaningful to this discussion because this is the only thread on the net that I can find that helps aliviate the confusion!

Sorry for the spelling errors its 2:46 in the morning...

BTW- I personally loved the orgy scene because the juxtaposition of the raw tribal human interaction with the civilized world of the matrix (Zions air traffic control too) and the efficient machines is awsome! Plus seeing nipples through sweaty shirts was a plus!

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I just saw Reloaded- Totaly awesome! I can't wait for Revolutions! :) :)

[djxl2]

Originally posted by darkma773r
Well, i have to say i was dissapointed and impressed in Reloaded all at the same time.

The Good:
-great fight scenes
-funky kung fu
-great highway chase
-good plot twists
-neo flys super fast and everything behind him explodes.

The Bad:
-some out of place songs
-some weird sound effects( i noticed that the swords always sound exactly the same)
-first 15 min. are confusing and out of place

The Ugly
-almost everyone talks in weird big words.
-weird "make you think" lines like "we dont make choices, choices are made, we have to understand that choices arent choices and thats a choice that we have to make even though it makes no difference"
-one part was like a bad rap music video orgy. (could have done w/o the whole sex thing)
-I always imaginied Zion smaller, and not as high tech. But it is massive
-the whole cake/woman thing was out of place and really cheasy/stupid/unnessary
-black sunglasses on EVERYONE


What really ticked me off was the first 15 min.
it was so horrible, i almost walked out of the theater!
The scenes jumped all over, had no transitions, no lead in, and no flow. After that, it was decent, and i forgot how pissed i was.

Overall, it was a poorly told story with hyped special effects.
At times, neo looked like a rubber doll, flying, bouncing, and twirling around like a fairy.

The supporting roles sucked big time. No character development at all. What the hell is up with Morphous and that other capt. dude?! I picked up that they were jealous about that Niobe girl, who did jack squat. What happened to tank? Now there is just some other black guy in his place.

This is what neo says at the end of the first one:
(Phone)
Neo, The One: I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone and then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you, a world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries, a world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.

What does this have to do with reloaded?! it dosent tie in very well, it almost seems to tie in with the revolutions rather than reloaded.

And whats up with the "neo has power in the real world" thing!? I think that he probably swithed some powers with agent smith. Now smith is a little human, and neo is a little machine.

all in all, it was decent and worth watching again it did not live up to all the hype. A great story written by theWachowski bros., they just need a good director to convey it better.


exactly!!!!!!!!!!!


WORD TO THAT! THIS movie was a TOTAL disapointment!!!!




Nothing what i wanted to see.. BLAH!!!!!!!!! THE MUSIC OMG F***ING HORRIBLE!!!!


IT sounded like it was some OLD man sitting behind a synthicizer thinking 'oh man i need to make some 'cool' 'hip' 'techno' music for this' my dad could make better 'techno' music then that!

It was like such a PATHETIC attempt at sounding 'cool'.


compared to the music selection from the first movie. It was Awesome!!! like the lobby scene where they use propellerheads spybreak! That sound fit perfectly to the scene. the music gives so much more to the movie..



ARRGH!!!!

how did they MESS THIS UP SOO BAD!!!

[himself]

First of all I'd like to thank 'ImJacksAmygdala' for enlightening me with his thoughts, you helped give me a greater understanding of the matrix.

Okay, now I dont' believe that Zion is a Matrix...i can see how ppl may have gotten that impression but i just think it sounds a lil bit too ridiculous to be true. It makes us viewers feel like the whole movie is pointless. Like as if it's some practical joke from the Wachowski bros making you watch it just, so they could go...HA HAR! i rolled ya! That would be equilvalent to watching a movie with twists and stuff and then having the ending reveal that it was all just a dream. Totally pointless.

I also don't like how ppl have been saying Agent Smith(a program) became more human and therefore could go into the real world...that's IMPOSSIBLE
what i think happened...is that when that dude was plugged up into the matrix...Agent Smith(a program) kinda hacked into the thing that plugs into that dudes brain and sensationalized certain parts of it to imprint the thoughts and history and life of Agent Smith(similar to how Neo just learnt how to fight by being uploaded with stuff). So Agent Smith basically just overwrote all of that guys memory and thoughts with that of his.

The possibility of Neo being more machine like also sounds unrealistic...i know how it might bind in with all the talk about the relationship b/w human and machine..but it's physically impossible. I don't know what the real answer is.
What if Neo is actually a machine that was hooked up into the matrix? A prototype of a mechanical human..depicting a mathematical anamoly to replace all 'the ones'. Maybe the machines have already created the 'perfect' matrix...and have wiped out all the mathematical anamolies that would exist by plugging in a human. By creating a mechanical anamolie, the loop of zion being destroyed and stuff would be infinite... giving the machines a purpose to live (Have any of you's seen MEMENTO??? that's a bloody kick ass movie and i strongly recommend you see it if you love twists and mind bending ideas). Because what would life be for the machines after creating the perfect matrix? I think this would give them a lil purpose to live. And if Neo is just a machine, it would clearly explain why he stopped that sentinel in the real world. For the explanation above to make any sense, you would've had to have read ImJacksAmygdala's input and maybe watched MEMENTO to understand.

Oh, can i asked one question? I missed out on the explanation of how the keys actually manage to open the door to a totally different part of the matrix world..something about the backbone of the matrix or something.

[himself]

Oh I just wanted to add that I shouldn't just give credit to ImJacksAmygdala, thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread b/c everyone helped really.

P.S sorry for all my spastic spelling mistakes and bad grammar

[The Mighty]

So the movie was a big disapointment then?

[basketballpat3]

Okay guys...

This is what I think. I too believe the whole orgy scene and and cake orgasim thing was totally out of place. But let's think about it..... if these two scenes would have been deleted what would have stopped the MPAA from giving the movie a PG-13 rating?? The violance and imagery was not as strong as the original, which warrented the R rating. Thus, tossing in these scenes would make sure that Reloaded received the R rating. A PG-13 rating would have been a let down to fans, maybe even causing it to perform worse at the box office. That's what I think, let me know what you think.

[ImJacksAmygdala]

The orgy was important to convey the sharp contrasting juxtaposition of the raw tribal human interaction with the civilized world of the matrix (Zions air traffic control too) and the efficient machines. Zions culture is built on the feeling of being free, and what better facilitates that feeling better than music and sweaty bodies?

The cake orgasim is very important! It is a visual tool to show the audience very simply and quickly how scripts can be placed into people in the matrix. Why does the Oracle always offer Neo food? (that was EricNoah's epiphany not mine found at http://www.rottentomatoes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=234680&perpage=25&pagenumber=2) The Oracle does seem to be a writer of scripts. Such as when she made the vase fall. Yes that did cook my noodle thank you very much!

[IdahoMR2man]

You know that it is medula-oblongatta right?

[jbailey84]

this is my opinion but i liked the first Matrix better than reloaded for some odd reason. reloaded was cool because of the fights, chases, and thats it. but i go agrre about the orgy/neo & trinity love scene. total waste of time and film. and is it just me, or do the Wachowski Bros, the directors, really like Rage Against the Machine? Matrix ended with "Wake Up" and Reloaded ended with "Calm Like a Bomb" Wonder what Revolutions will end with...FREEDOM!:D

[fes]

Why didn't they do it so the EMP effects Neo & Agent Smith? Telling the audience that they are somehow connected to the machines... it would make for a nice link to the fact that Neo feels empathy for the machines.

I haven't seen reloaded yet - i live in the UK so it;s not out yet

[fes]

From what I've read the 2 main theories you guys have are:

a) The matrix within a matrix

b) Smith & Neo are part of each other

From reading your posts i'd say it's both of these. If I link to my above post about Neo's empathy for the machines in the "real world". It's obvious that if Neo can do all of his moves then he is still in a matrix of a kind, but the machines would surley have an advantage over Neo still - but Neo has also gained upgrades much like Smith, and is able to alter much more than usual.

I'm sure it'll all be explained in Revolutions anyways.

[carnage4u]

i have seen some people ask.. was it bad? is it worth seeing?

Dont let people here make that choice for you.

considering the money it is ranking in, just about every type of person is seeing this movie. from the smart to the dumbass.

so dont take the word of strangers if you should see it. It looks fun to you see it.

People here I would say mostly like it, while i few expected more and didnt. I loved it, but knew not to expect it to change my life and therefore I was ok with what it did.

let me repeat. People that post here should not effect anyone if they see it or not. Lots of good people post here. lots of morons post here. its the fun of a free forum to see the contrast of brain power in action.

[himself]

...and plus is thread is called Matrix reloaded ISSUES(don't read if you haven't seen it) so all those who haven't seen it and read all this and spoil the movie for themselves aren't doing themselves a very huge favour!

We're sposed to be discussing issues about the movie here, not about whether you liked it or not...damn ppl coming in just to post that they didn't like it. If you didn't like it, just tell us why, and perhaps we could shed light on some confusion that you might have. I'm sure there are alot of ppl asking the same questions as you are so it would help everybody really, including me. : )

There are only 3 reasons to why you wouldn't like this movie:
1. Bc you were so dumb that you couldn't even understand the first one
2. Your expectations were so high that it was impossible for the movie to fulfill your expectations
3. Bc you left the cinema thinking that the Wachowski bros are bastards for deliberately constructing a movie that would leave you so confused that you'd have to come back and watch it again!
.....i believe they have a marketing mind as well...not just a movie making one

Well the movie has grossed a record $42.5 million on its opening day on Thursday. Spidey previously held the opening day record (on a Friday) with $39.4 million. I think that speaks for itself.

[jdonoho]

I'm confused about the architect too, but from what he said they are still in the Matrix this whole time. I think the 5 'Ones' were NEO and not different people. What makes me think all of this is that the Architect said they are getting really proficient at destroying Zion. If Zion was actually part of the real world, how could this be? Zion and this perception of humans being out of the Matrix is required by humans. Didn't the architect say something to the effect that HOPE is 'one' or 'the' greatest strengths and weaknesses of humans. And that humans need hope in order to survive. That is why Zion exists INSIDE THE MATRIX. That's my interpretation of what he's saying anything. Unless it's just all BS and the architect is saying what he must to try and get rid of Neo. However, the power that Neo displayed at the end of the movie against the sentinels seems to suggest they are still in the Matrix and he is just realizing it and in a coma because he is adapting to this. Who knows...hopefully they'll throw something at us in the next movie that we aren't expecting because them being inside the Matrix still is kind of predictable and shoots the hell out of the coolness from the first one. By the way....CHECK THIS MOVIE OUT, but don't expect too much. The majority of the time after it I was like...what the hell was he just talking about (architect). After this movie sucked in it seems a lot better than when I first left the theater and I want to see again just to try and better understand some of the things that are going on with the plot.

[saber5]

darkma773r,

I don't know what your talking about.. the first 15min of the movie has a lot to do with the ending of the movie!! You say that certain things wasn't explained like what happened to tank .. but I do recall them mentioning Tank and the fact that he asked his brother or cousin(not sure of the relation) to pilot the ship for him if he died!!.

I Just wanted to clear up those facts for you .. I think you might have missed some of the explanations for a lot of the stuff because the words were too intricate for you to understand!!

As for the rest of everyone's explanations on the Matrix and Zion being 1 and the same just on differen't platforms.. I can't say I agree with that but I will go and see it again and try and figure it out for myself!!

I can tell ya I thought the Dancing scene was a little too long but I do see the point of that scene.. and the orgasm scene had a purpose too.. sure it could have been explained in another way but it had its purpose!!

[himself]

I still don't believe that all the other 'the one's' were NEO...bc if they were why would morpheus take so long to find him? All he would've had to do is look for someone in the matrix that looks like keanu reeves and yep...he is the one! Hell anyone could have done that.
No...that would also almost eliminate the sole purpose of the oracle...to find and report mathematical anamolies.
The machines are trying to perfect the matrix. As we already know they program the matrix and human behaviour using equations.... The first matrix had all perfect equations and human's didnt have the choice(or there were no 'IF' statements for humans to do bad things). That didn't work cuz huge crops were lost. They made a new version by adding new equations for humans to make bad choices. But even with that version they discovered that there were still mathematical anamolies or ppl who represent a mathematical probability.ie. the one. So the oracle is kinda like a debugging program that finds these programming errors(or lack of programming) and report them. She leads them to the center of the matrix and they add that 'ones' equations in and start the debugging process over agin...and each time it finds a new programming bug.

All the other 'ones' chose the right door and hence got to pull out 21 ppl out of the matrix and rebuild zion.

"When the matrix was first created, a man was born inside that could change the matrix as he saw fit. He was the one that freed the first of us"

I believe that when morpheus said 'freed the first of us' what he meant was he chose the right door and got to rebuild zion with them.

I think zion is kept alive bc when they discover the anomolie, he needs to develop before he can be any use to them(for programming purposes). If they just wipe out zion, sure they'd still find anomolies and the oracle could report them, but he would be no use to them b/c i think he needs to go out in the real world and discover things, develop and hence solve the equations for the machines to chuck into the programming of the new and revised matrix.

[ImJacksAmygdala]

Originally posted by IdahoMR2man
You know that it is medula-oblongatta right?

No I mean this... http://www.23nlpeople.com/Amygdala.htm

[Tim37ninjageniu]

Okay heres what it all means:

The Matrix/Zion is just a loop that has run 5 times before and is now in its 6th time around.
Each time a Matrix is created the "sum of all characters on earth" inevitably creates an anomaly known as the one in this case being of course NEO (one get it?). Instead of Neo destroying the Matrix and freeing humanity the Architect and the Oracle created a false prophecy so in the process the cycle could again continue and the machines would still survive.

What is different this time is that Neo knows his CHOICE. The matrix can either be RELOADED and the cycle continues perhaps into infinity----OR----Neo can choose to save one human defying all logic of the machines.

What was showing on the screens behind him were all the outcomes of CHOICES Neo could make. He chose to follow his heart.

Since he did something that the machines could not predict (that is stop the loop so it is now going forward) he has 24 hours to save humanity in the real world.



Okay and as to why he had power in the real world:
Neo obviously is connected with the matrix at its core. He is now in a way a program of the matrix. Only the "NEO PROGRAM" is unpredictable and also actually REAL which is why he has power in both reality and the matrix.

AND FOR ALL YOU IDIOTS WHO DIDNT UNDERSTAND THE ASSASIN THING HERE GOES:
Agent smith duplicated himself changing the mind of a human into himself. However when that person went back to the real world his actual appearance was unchanged while his mind was. So now there is an Agent Smith trying to assasinate Neo in the real world. He is the man who cut himself. WHY? IT WAS HIS FIRST TIME IN REALITY. It was his first time feeling actual physical feelings so when he cut himself he was just seeing what pain actually felt like.

TADA done i think that is right and if not tell me why

[Tim37ninjageniu]

HIMSELF POSTED:
I still don't believe that all the other 'the one's' were NEO...bc if they were why would morpheus take so long to find him? All he would've had to do is look for someone in the matrix that looks like keanu reeves and yep...he is the one! Hell anyone could have done that.
No...that would also almost eliminate the sole purpose of the oracle...to find and report mathematical anamolies.


sigh

Morpheus and noone knew that this had happened 5 times.
When he was talking to the Architect he said " How come noone told me? Unless noone knew?" "That is correct."

And I dont think it matters who the other "ones" were that is irrevelant.

[himself]

"Morpheus and noone knew that this had happened 5 times"

Morpheus didn't have to know it had happened 5 times, i'm sure the first 'one' who saved them was worshipped like a god, therefore im sure there were pictures or paintings of him. And if they were all NEO they would look like keanu reeves.
It's not important who the other 'ones' were...but i was just straightening out those who think that the other one's were in fact him.

I don't understand how a human being could physically stop a machine...as if he was some remote control type thingy...it's humanly impossible. You were trying to explain it above but it doesn't make total logical sense. Please enlighten me.

[morpheous85]

I thought I would stop in for a minute to clear things up! j/k. I just heard about this whole, "Matrix within a Matrix" thing tonight. It seems to make alot of sense. At the end, Neo started to discover this and therefore, was able to have control over the machine. This would also help explain Agent smith being able to control that guy. And, so far, no one has mentioned the whole seen where the main leader (sorry, I can't remember what he is called.) takes Neo down to the lower levels of Zion and talks about the machines. Could he possible be refering vaugely the the other Matrix? Remember from the first movie that Neo (and possible others) "knew" about the Matrix but didn't know what it was. I.E. They knew that there was something beyond that world. Also, Morpheous mentioned in the first movie that it was about 2199 (correct me if I am wrong.) If that is true, would that be enough time for the Matrix to have restarted 6 times? There are some pretty old people inside the matrix. If each Matrix lasted, say, 60 years, that would be 360 years total. Therefore, the year would have to be more like 2359. If it is a double, (or perhaps more) Matrix, how do we know that the Archetect is real? Or if he is telling the truth? Another comment on the guy who was "infected". Did he "tell" the sentenals their ships position?

And a couple of last few comments.

1. I disagree with the notion that Neo is part machine.

2. I thought the sex/orgy seen was unnecessarily long. I think that it could have been implied rather easily.

3. The seen with the women eating the cake could have also been done better.

4. Maybe we should all just give up trying to understand it and wait for the next movie to explain it all.

Morpheous

[Bigdawg]

I liked it.
I think what's so confusing is about the rogue programs. The architect told us that the Oracle helped design the Matrix, and implied that she led Neo to him. She herself told Neo that she might not be trustworthy, that he had to decide that for himself. Then she offered him the candy, trying to get him to eat it, eating one herself, saying,'I do like candy." I noticed he didn't eat it. I gotta think it was a program, like the piece of cake was. He didn't totally trust her. She's the one who told him about rogue programs in the first place, too, that some choose not to reassociate with the mainframe when replaced, and she said something like "every time you hear about ghosts, or werewolves, that's a program doing something it's not supposed to do. Some programs are even vampires." She set up the appearance of the twins. The French guy reinforces the introduction of controlling programs into other programs with the piece of cake and the blond woman.
Smith has become a rogue program, because of Neo's interaction with him in the first movie. Remember when Smith almost succeeded in converting Neo into a version of himself? I bet that that interaction with Smith changed Neo's hardwiring, not just his Matrix self but Neo's physical brain in the real world. Maybe too his making it into the mainframe itself to confront the architect made Neo sort of "plugged in" to the entire program, too. It changed him in a way that he was more in tune with the entire mainframe the Matrix was in. If you look at it like that, it kind of makes sense that Neo was able to control the drones in Zion. I think that's what the movie intended, not that Zion itself is a bigger Matrix.
I don't think the dance scene in the cavern was an "orgy" but a collective dance to celebrate life, not being plugged anymore, kind of a tribal dance. It was sexual, but I thought it was totally appropriate for the idea of these people hiding deep inside the earth, living completely in defiance of the machines, celebrating the fact that they were alive. People had on skimpy clothing, often see-thru, but the only people I saw having sex were Neo and Trinity.
My last thought is on the cake scene. I can't believe anybody except females would find that offensive. It was a neat sexual metaphor for a rogue program.

[tedward]

This whole "is it real or isnt it real thing" has been covered before in red dwarf - no doubt there are only 4 or 5 'real' people in this game morpheous, neo, trinity and a couple of others.

The crew of red dwarf once got trapped in a virtual reality video game world that was designed to be so good none of them could leave - i think lister even had special powers - and they too thought they had escaped but they only escaped to another computer reality. Honestly the writers of red dwarf should consider court action. Every philosophical isue in the matrix movies was covered - is it real would I prefer reality or wonderland etc.

[pneuman]

I just wanted to start by saying Hello to everyone, as I am new to this site.

I have been reading the posts for The Matrix Reloaded and I must say they offer some very interesting and intuitive insights to the possible theories and messages of humanity this film embodies.

The thoughts I am going to offer now are only my opinions, many of which I have not really decided upon because I have to see the movie a few more times to formulate some concrete theories about this film. I do not think any of the other ideas posted on this thread are wrong or right. I think everyone has their own interpretation of the film, and that is ultimately what the Wachowski brothers intended. Everyone is a unique individual, on their own path of spiritual and emotional transcendance, so we will take from this movie those ideas which aid us in this journey of self-discovery and self-awareness.

Okay, so here goes. My possible theories on The Matrix Reloaded:

1) This is very outlandish and not very probable, and I do not really believe it myself, but..... What if the human race is already extinct? Perhaps Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, and every person in Zion and in the Matrix is simply a computer program. The difference with the "freed people" is that they are rogue computer programs which have been infected with a virus, giving them a mind of their own and thus the capabiltiy to make their own decisions. Furthermore, maybe, like Agent Smith, these rogue computer programs want to bring down the Matrix so they can erect a new Matrix in which they have ultimate control and power. Please offer insights, not insults, on this far out idea.

2) I really quite like the Matrix within a Matrix theme which is becoming quite popular. By the end of the third film, I really would like to see the opposite of the cliche Hollywood ending. Instead of a happy and joyous ending, where Matrix(es) is destroyed, I would like to see a perpetual battle between man vs. machine, a battle that parallels the inner battle of good vs. evil which exists within each of us. Or, if the Matrix(es) is completely brought to ruin, it would be interesting to see the human race become so unhappy with the new world they now exist in that they create a new Matrix to go back to. The message of humanity this exemplifies is that when faced with the real truth of one's character, and his/her subsequent and inherit strengths and flaws, perhaps it is easier to live a lie, an allusion, rather than face the truth. Please offer some further insights to this.

3) The architect could be symbolic of God, and since God knows everything of past, present, and future, including our fates, maybe there is no such thing as freedom of choice. Rather, the illusion of this freedom is what satisifies humanity's desire to decide its own fate and is a weapon used by the architect to control humanity.

4) I agree with the person who posted that there was probably some hidden meanings within the crotch scene, which perhaps we cannot fully understand yet.

5) The sunglasses are an extremely important part of this film, as they beg the question: Through what truth are you looking at reality?

I think a lot of questions are going to remain unanswered until the third and final film comes out. I really was very satisfied with this film overall because it provoked deep thought and analysis on my part, trying to piece together the hidden messages for humanity's existence. I left the theatre feeling very befuddled and my mind clouded with the uncertainty of the many possible philosophies which arise from this film. The Wachowski brothers were ultimately successful in creating a film that was not linear, but rather so complex and diverse, it sparks real imagination and thought on the part of the audience. Well done.

P.S. If you listen to early interviews with the Wachowski brothers, The Matrix was always planned to be a trilogy in their minds. The basic story of each movie was formulated before anyone even saw the first Matrix.

[Carey]

Ok, I saw the movie tonight and I thought some of the fights looked way too ridiculous. There was total lack of color during the freeway fight, which could have been done much better (apparently there is no wind on top of a tractor trailer traveling freeway speeds).

But answer me two things:

If Agent Smith and Neo can each dodge bullets, why is it when Neo kicks or throws one Agent Smith into another Agent Smith, neither one can get out of the others way?

Why is Neo trying to destroy the Matrix from within? I mean, sure, maybe I could write some code that could cook my PC, but wouldn't it be faster to smack the actual PC with a hammer or blow it up, rather then try to fight the code within it to acheive the same result?

Ah well, I'm nitpicking. Good movie. I enjoyed it, but I thought it would be better. Lawrence Fishburne seemed a bit plastic in his 'acting.' Keanu Reeves actually did a good job on this one.

[PsYkOoOoO]

i have qns too~!!someone ans me pls~!


1.i dont understand the speech by the Architect...pls explain in simpler terms..


2.exactly what did the oracle say to neo?


3.what's the matrix within the matrix thing?

my opinion bout the film,is that...yes i do agree that neo is wayyyy to powerful in this film....and not enough agent smith...and the special effect did wow me as much as i did when i watched the first matrix....no big breakthroughs...although i thought the scene when neo saves morpheus and the keymaker absolutely stunning...but nothing new....but it was a good movie though...really...cool...

[himself]

Carey wrote:
"Why is Neo trying to destroy the Matrix from within? I mean, sure, maybe I could write some code that could cook my PC, but wouldn't it be faster to smack the actual PC with a hammer or blow it up"

umm...because everyone plugged up into the matrix would die!!!

you know i was wondering if there was something on the net or in book form that you could read that would detail of everything 'the matrix'...i know u can't buy revolutions...but maybe there might be some book or something from the very very beginning of the story(animatrix - the 2nd renaissence) to maybe...i dunno....well as far as we have seen in reloaded
i really doubt there is but i think it would be cool to read it. B/c if you watch the second rennaisance part II, it doesnt detail of how the last surviving humans managed to build zion and so forth. I want to know!

[stevefan]

I just want to say, that aside from immensely disliking this movie, I find it bizarre and disturbing that the Matrix movies are invested with such pseudo-religious meaning. These are the sorts of movies that pot-heads can disect for hours, because aside from pandering to their paranoid delusions, they mistake incomprehensability for depth and incoherence for complexity.
As an action movie it is barely adequate (the fight scenes look llike a computer game and are interminably long and repetitive), the dialogue is sub Lucas, the biblical overtones are apallingly unsubtle (the peasants of Zion with their offerings to Neo), the acting is almost universally woeful (Zerbe, Moss and Belucci being the exceptions), the sex scene is excruciatingly boring and the ridiculous architect scene simply talks itself into oblivion.
Whatdoes it actually mean to see all the different Neos on the screens?
Why do they need to blow up a power station when the matrix is powered by humans?
Why can Neo destroy the Sentinals outside the Matrix?
How Did Smith become a rogue programme?
I'm sure the answers to these and many more questioin are actually quite simple, so why did they make such a meal of explaining everything?I can only guess it's because they thought that if it was all hard to work out, people would think it was better than it actually was.

The Matrix Reloaded was, I think, the worst sequel to an okay film I have seen in many years. If it was not for the couple of fantastic sequences where you actually sense some doubt as to how the scene would end (the Freeway scene was, I grudgingly admit, astonishing, and 'Trinity'-geddit?!-falling with the guns blazing was impressive), but otherwise a colossal waste of time, and given that in parts it looked like an afternoon kids tv show or an episode of Lexx or Farscape, at $150m a waste of money too. The only reason I can imagine enjoying this pretentious nonsense aside from effects, is the cavalcade of b-list stars of stage and screen from Australia that seem so hilariously out of place.

[thinker]

THE SPOON in the real world!!!

Many have tried to rationalise the matrix in a matrix idea and the 6 ones.

neo is most likely still in the matrix and most likely everyone is and no one ever really got out.

symbolism: in m1 the kid gives him a spoon.. "try to realise the truth...there is no spoon"....right in the begining in m2 neo gets given a made spoon....this was in the "real world"...after the ending you realise that the spoon is symbolic, implying that he is still in the matrix.

there was way too much symbolism in the movie to disect here...not to mention the stuff i didnt pick up the first time...as for the woman orgams, there may or may not be a symbolic meaning for that whole scene...or it could just be directors fun...it will take a few more screenings to decide.

as to why neo stopped the centinals, he cannot be part machine...thats just silly... he's gotta be still in the matrix... when a person goes into the matrix their brain's electrical signals are translated and interact with the matrix over a carrier wave....your brain/body cannot create and transmit electrical signals powerfull enough to stop a tv let alone a centinal!



agent smith taking over a human can be taken a few ways...i dont like the idea of him taking over a person in the real world, although it is plausable...if you look into the physics and science of programming, to interact with the matrix, your brain waves would have to go through a translation process....smith is an AI program...it could be possible for this AI consciousness to replace the object of the person in the matix (like a computer virus) and then get translated back to brain waves and transfered back.

as with time?
in m1 morpheus said no one really knows what year it is...he said "its more likely closer to 2199"...this "the one" scenario might take place over many many decades for all we know...so the year could be closer to 3199....this is assuming that the scenario is not being "reloaded" in terms of computer time intervals...has anyone seen tron?


the architech and oracle:
m1 had a destiny vs control theme... if the oracle is on the machines side then it follows that the "one" scenario could be remanufactured and controlled each time with a new "one", hence the oracle knowing the future because she can aid in its structure and predict via previous data and probilities....this then implies that smith's apparent rebelion "could" also a manufactured one.

this comes back to control and choices...ie. your choices dont really mean anything because you have no control...it also falls back on descartes evil deamon theory about a demon controlling you, what you do, experience and even think.

[pneuman]

Just another theory, and please offer some retrospective on this:

What if the Zion city is not a part of the Matrix, what if it is real life? What if Neo's meeting with the Architect opened his mind so much that he discovered the real truth and unleased the full power of his brain, 100 of it, and this awakening increased his powers infinitely and thus he was able to connect with the machines and destroy the sentinel. Neo can see the computer code within the Matrix, which is why he can control it so effectively. Pehaps becasue the sentinels are connected to the Matrix, he shares a connection with them, and thus can control them.

Just a thought, I'm not even sure if I believe it. By the way, I think this was THEE BEST FILM I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE! Not because of the special effects and the action sequences, which were still the best I have EVER seen, but because of the deep seeded philosophic over and undertones. Simply amazing! Many say this film is confusing nature fools you into thinking it is complex, but because it offers so many contradictions to humanity's accepted belief systems, we deny its greatness and do not want to see the truth. We do not want to free our minds because it is easier to let someone control us rather than take responsibility for our own lives.


I'll be back!

[himself]

hey pneuman, did u read thinker's post just above urs???
he said
"as to why neo stopped the centinals, he cannot be part machine...thats just silly... he's gotta be still in the matrix... when a person goes into the matrix their brain's electrical signals are translated and interact with the matrix over a carrier wave....your brain/body cannot create and transmit electrical signals powerfull enough to stop a tv let alone a centinal!"

too right!

and when u said
"We do not want to free our minds because it is easier to let someone control us rather than take responsibility for our own lives."

are u talking about how we just prefer to be told the answers rather than use our imagination to explore the answers on our own? As an answer to stevefan's
"I'm sure the answers to these and many more questioin are actually quite simple, so why did they make such a meal of explaining everything?I can only guess it's because they thought that if it was all hard to work out, people would think it was better than it actually was."

[himself]

and i know the matrix within a matrix theory is very probable. I just don't want to accept it bc I don't think the Wachowski bro's would do something like that to us. This matrix within a matrix theory is so understandably the right answer...and that is why it is NOT!
That's what they want you to believe........... we'll just have to watch revolutions to see.

[himself]

okay ppl you are gonna be in for a treat.....or something more like confirmation of what everyone has been discussing

okay..my fwend has seen the movie twice..and he quoted the architect as saying that
"99% of the human population accepted the matrix while 1% didnt
neo paused and said "zion"

would that imply that...the machines created the matrix...plugged them up...crops would die..they created 2nd matrix...and there were all these 'the ones' or mathematical anaomolies b/c they wouldn't accept the matrix...so to solve that problem...they created the zion matrix?
and now there's no problem...b/c even though ppl get unplugged from the matrix matrix..into the zion matrix..all they're doing is just moving from 1 program to another

okay now get this,
neo chose the left door, deciding to go back into the zion matrix, save trinity and fight the sentinels
so okay...if he fought the sentinels in the zion matrix and won....so wot?..he's still in the matrix..how was he gonna get out of the zion matrix...hmm...ahahah

has anyone seen WORLD RECORD yet..which is one of the animatrix...the guy who was plugged up into the matrix..was trying to free himself...ie. wake up in the pod like neo did..(all by himiself) and then plug himself out..with no help

okay..now if neo is in the zion matrix..and manages to wake up from that...if he wakes up to the actual REAL WORLD!...there will be no humans and nothing but machines...he needs to build a ship and all that stuff so that he can free all the other ppl in the zion matrix!

[Arrakis]

Originally posted by himself
hey pneuman, did u read thinker's post just above urs???
he said
"as to why neo stopped the centinals, he cannot be part machine...thats just silly... he's gotta be still in the matrix... when a person goes into the matrix their brain's electrical signals are translated and interact with the matrix over a carrier wave....your brain/body cannot create and transmit electrical signals powerfull enough to stop a tv let alone a centinal!"


I'm sure he did, that's why he said that it would take 100% of your brain, as opposed to the 10% we normally use, to do something of that magnitude.

I like the idea of Neo having some outside-of-the-matrix powers. I always pretty much figurd that was gonna happen some time in the sequels.

[Tim37ninjageniu]

I am really against the theory of a Matrix within a Matrix.

1: Its way to obvious
2: It would PISS ME OFF. It would mean that the whole first movie, everything that Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus and humanity has worked for would be completely vain and futile.
3: Neo said and I quote, "Something is different now, I can feel them." SOMETHING IS DIFFERENT. So even if there is a matrix within a matrix Zion and everything was real before and they just then were in that matrix for the first time. I will BE PISSED OFF if it turns out they were all in a second hidden matrix the whole time
4: It would make the entire first movie POINTLESS. The single greatest movie of all time would be made pointless.


All in all it was a great movie. I loved the conversation with the architect and liked the concept that Neo was not the first "one" but since he saved Trinity he now has a chance to actually accomplish what his predecessors could not.

I also like the idea of Agent Smith controlling someone in the Real world. It really isnt that farfethced. If anyone wants to talk Matrix email me at Sportsgi37@aol.com and thats my IM too.

There is no spoon.

[himself]

I agree with Tim37ninjageniu on how it would piss me off if there was a matrix within a matrix type thingy....i had a post before that detailed of how it would make the movies just pointless

but...now its beginning to sound more like the truth...or wot they want us to percieve as the truth...i must watch the movie again..i need to find some evidence to support either theories

[Citizen Kane]

One question I have: how does Smith tie in? The sneak preview for The Matrix Revolutions implied that Neo would have to face off against Smith to save mankind. However, Smith is a rogue program. If he's independent of the other Agents etc., why does everything come down to him?

[himself]

replying to Citizen Kane's question

I believe that at that point in time in revolutions...they'd probably figured out how to save mankind....maybe get to the mainframe and reprogram it so that everyone can wake up unharmed and no one dies in the process. I believe Smith may be the last hurdle before Neo can get there, therefore...he has to face him before he can save mankind.

[thinker]

Originally posted by himself
I agree with Tim37ninjageniu on how it would piss me off if there was a matrix within a matrix type thingy....i had a post before that detailed of how it would make the movies just pointless

but...now its beginning to sound more like the truth...or wot they want us to percieve as the truth...i must watch the movie again..i need to find some evidence to support either theories


i just thought i should say that there is a chance that neo ever actually left the architech....

did anyone see a preview where trinity said something like "give me neo" and the guy replied something like "is he worth that much to you?"

i dont remember seeing this in m2 so i'm guessing its part of m3...so could this be evidence to mean that he was captured and that the last scenes were a mini-matrix just for him...meaning the ship exploding and his apparent control over the sentinals was all part of this...and in reality all that has happened was that he entered the room of light?


then again the whole matrix in matrix thing leads you to think that maybe at the end of the m3 he might wake up out of his pod and free himself hence making the profecy come full circle and meaning that he will actually be the first except in real life... a little too predictable...hopefully it will have a huge insane twist that will save it from controversy.

there are hints in the animatrix that support this waking though...eg. "those that become aware of the matrix have fine sensitivity" or something like that....and then there is the running guy who freed himself.

and the one where they capture the machine and tried to get it to help them helps suport this too as they said "its a machine.. all reality is virtual to them" or something along those lines when they hooked it up to their mini-matrix....this supports agent smiths emergence in a person's brain because its not actually a brain because its still wired into the matrix and he cant tell the difference...something like that?

[ElysiumFirefly]

I thought Matrix Reloaded was good, but I still think I like The Matrix better. I hope that Revolutions is the best since its the last:D

[necronon99]

Neo is all the super heros in one, Tank loaded it in his melon in part one
you just missed it

[Mouse]

My thoughts,

1. Zion is not a program, it is outside of the matrix
2. The architect tries to make the other one's think that the door to shut down the matrix is the right one
3. Neo and Smith are in a coma because they have some sort of bond, created at the end of the 1st movie when neo went into agent smith.
4. Why did the machines create the oracle?
5. In revolutions preview morpheus says "He fights for us," probably talking about smith or sombody. So why is smith fighting neo?

[Mouse]

Originally posted by ElysiumFirefly
I thought Matrix Reloaded was good, but I still think I like The Matrix better. I hope that Revolutions is the best since its the last:D

I agree. The Matrix was better than Reloaded. Revolutions is going to be better than Reloaded.

[Instinct]

All of the first film takes place within the matrix, thats the theory I'm going with.
Zion and the 'real world' are part of a program the machines created to please the 1% that rejected the matrix, while 99% that took it are living their lives the way they've always have.

[Megaman]

Originally posted by djxl2
exactly!!!!!!!!!!!


WORD TO THAT! THIS movie was a TOTAL disapointment!!!!




Nothing what i wanted to see.. BLAH!!!!!!!!! THE MUSIC OMG F***ING HORRIBLE!!!!


IT sounded like it was some OLD man sitting behind a synthicizer thinking 'oh man i need to make some 'cool' 'hip' 'techno' music for this' my dad could make better 'techno' music then that!

It was like such a PATHETIC attempt at sounding 'cool'.


compared to the music selection from the first movie. It was Awesome!!! like the lobby scene where they use propellerheads spybreak! That sound fit perfectly to the scene. the music gives so much more to the movie..



ARRGH!!!!

how did they MESS THIS UP SOO BAD!!!



shut the f cuk up

[Thesean1211]

If zion is another matrix, why cant Neo see the code of the zion matrix. Is it because he isnt aware that it is a matrix. Or is it because zion isnt a matrix.

[onlythetruth]

Good Call Thesean1211. Neo would see the code if it were another matrix. Or maybe he can only see the code in the actual matrix. But the whole idea that Zion is another matrix isn't based on anything. It is an easy way to explain why Neo could stop the squiddies. Maybe the whole thing about Neo and smith sharing parts of each other has something to do with it. Neo can feel them because he has some of them in him now.

[ghoul13]

I found the Matrix Reloaded very intriguing. From the posts, it has poised many questions. I have 1 question that nobody has noticed.

During the restaurant scene, as Neo enters the restaurant,
there is someone being escorted out, screen left. As the person (and the person escorting him) leaves, the matrix code chime music plays. I have seen the movie twice, so far, and all I can make out is the guy being escorted out has a beard.

Did anyone else see this or figure out the significance of this????

[Fable]

I saw the movie the other night, and we chatted alot through the whole thing which is why i may have missed this part. But what is all this talk about the cake scene?

[Fable]

I saw the movie the other night and i may have missed it because my friends were with me and we chatted throughout the movie, but what is all this talk about the cake scene? I don't remember anything about a cake...

[Arrakis]

Originally posted by Fable
I saw the movie the other night, and we chatted alot through the whole thing which is why i may have missed this part.

You talked. Through the entire movie. No offense but I hate people like you. :mad:

And the "cake scene" everyone is refering to, is the scene in which Merovingian was talking about the cake program he made that induced an orgasm in that woman at the restaurant.

[Fable]

OH YEAH! ok i remember now... i didn't fully understand that. thanks. Yeah i agree, that part was unnesesary

[wookie11]

Re: the matrix within a matrix scenerio, I don't think that's what's going on, if it was the whole first movie would be pointless to a degree, why would the agents have spend the entire time trying to get the codes from Morpheous to get into Zion if it was just a program, why would they bother having the centinals attack, and why would they bother destroying it?


if Neo was just supposed to start everything over again, and both were a matrix, the agents would have ruined the entire process by succeding.

I don't know the more I think about it the harder it gets lol, basically I think we're not suposed to understand or know what's going on, guess that's what makes the whole "to be concluded" thing fun, it's a cliffhanger so to speak.....

oh well, enjoyed reading all the posts, looking forward to reading more.

[Tim37ninjageniu]

Okay here is something that i noticed and have been wondering about. Did anyone else think that the lady in the cake scene seemed to look very similar to a certain "Lady in the Red Dress" from the first movie? Are they the same model? Someone check the credits.

[Arrakis]

No she's not, though I don't remember either actress' names, I do remember what they look like.

[thebtskink]

3:14 ..... that time in the final scene.... could it mean Pi?

[himself]

replying to thinker's
"did anyone see a preview where trinity said something like "give me neo" and the guy replied something like "is he worth that much to you?""

it was more like
"You give me neo or we all die, right here, right now"
agent asked
"you are ready to die for this man?"
..."believe it!

I think it is quite possible that when he went into the left door...or maybe when he used the key to enter the room with the architect...he may have actually entered into another matrix that is under construction...a zion matrix! and only neo is in it..and that world has been created for those like him. So the whole ending is in the new zion matrix. So that means the ppl in the real world find out about that. And they go into the matrix...hence trinity asking to get neo back.

and replying to Ghoul13's
"the guy being escorted out has a beard"
i just had a look at the revolutions trailer a few secs ago. You see the asian dude who fought neo fighting some ppl..perhaps for the humans...and you get 1 glimpse of this scary grubby looking guy with a BEARD! obviously he will play some significance in the next movie...good spotting! ahha

[Kloo]

ghoul13... i noticed that too, but i assumed it was just the keymaker?
Maybe i was wrong.
Anyways, some people before were talking about Neo not being the first 5 "The Ones".
Here's some food for thought for ya's :)

Use symmetric groups. Remember that 'neo' is a permutation of 'one'? Maybe they're referring to S_3, the group of permutations for {o, n, e}. Then for the identity permutation, obviously, we get f_0(ONE)=ONE (the identity element--kinda neat) and then for the other five we get: f_1(ONE)=EON, f_2(ONE)=OEN, f_3(ONE)=NOE, f_4(ONE)=ENO, f_5(ONE)=NEO, Any reason to design the Matrix using symmetric groups? Also, 6 is the first perfect number.

Some other ideas...
Morpheus is actually a boss bad guy, because of the connotations of his ships name, and his name itself.

OzRoy posted;
1 - The Nebuchaunezer(Morpheus' ship) is named after a biblical babylonian king who was the sworn enemy of Zion. Coincidence?
(extended:If indeed it's following a biblical theme, Nebuchadnezzar was actually used as the hand of God, to sweep away Zion for the cup of it's sin had overflowed. )

2 - Morpheus is the god of sleep and dreams in greek myth; perhaps an interesting coincidence, perhaps a sign that morpheus is working for the machines (if agent smith can control a human mind by infecting it within the matrix, what is to stop more powerful programs from doing so?

[Arrakis]

Use symmetric groups. Remember that 'neo' is a permutation of 'one'? Maybe they're referring to S_3, the group of permutations for {o, n, e}. Then for the identity permutation, obviously, we get f_0(ONE)=ONE (the identity element--kinda neat) and then for the other five we get: f_1(ONE)=EON, f_2(ONE)=OEN, f_3(ONE)=NOE, f_4(ONE)=ENO, f_5(ONE)=NEO, Any reason to design the Matrix using symmetric groups? Also, 6 is the first perfect number.

I actually noticed that too, pretty cool.

[Kitty]

*sits back and reads the posts while getting so terribly confused*

[HoustonsProblem]

now you see my friend and i have been brainstorming on this one subject for about a day now and cant figure it out so im hoping someone can... if the architect reboots the matrix... what is to stop the machines from drilling down into zion and why would no one in zion remember what happened... the architect has no control over the real world... so what exactly happens when the architect reboots the matrix? does everyone else in the real world get rebooted somehow too?

[HoustonsProblem]

Originally posted by saber5
darkma773r,

I don't know what your talking about.. the first 15min of the movie has a lot to do with the ending of the movie!! You say that certain things wasn't explained like what happened to tank .. but I do recall them mentioning Tank and the fact that he asked his brother or cousin(not sure of the relation) to pilot the ship for him if he died!!.

I Just wanted to clear up those facts for you .. I think you might have missed some of the explanations for a lot of the stuff because the words were too intricate for you to understand!!

As for the rest of everyone's explanations on the Matrix and Zion being 1 and the same just on differen't platforms.. I can't say I agree with that but I will go and see it again and try and figure it out for myself!!

I can tell ya I thought the Dancing scene was a little too long but I do see the point of that scene.. and the orgasm scene had a purpose too.. sure it could have been explained in another way but it had its purpose!!

everyones not understanding this... neo is always the one... the only one... and the reason morpheus doesnt kno its neo goes back up to my previous post that talks about when the matrix is rebooted what happens to zion.

the architect says "and then everyone is forced to retrace their steps" which blatantly says that when the matrix is reloaded, everyone and everything happens the exact same... which means Neo is the only 'one'

[Thesean1211]

Quoting himself:
I think it is quite possible that when he went into the left door...or maybe when he used the key to enter the room with the architect...he may have actually entered into another matrix that is under construction...a zion matrix! and only neo is in it..and that world has been created for those like him. So the whole ending is in the new zion matrix Unquote

Supposing what himself said is true, how come neo in the "real world"/zion matrix cant see the code? It would make sense that he could see the code in either matrixes. Just a thought posted earlier by myself.

[onlythetruth]

Everyone does die in zion. The architect tells neo this. They don't remember cause the survivors are from inside the matrix. The prophecy that Morpheus talks about states that The man born into the matrix freed the first of them. The "one" before neo chose 7 men and 14 women to start over in zion. the cycle continues and every hundred yrs or so the cycle starts over.

[onlythetruth]

The only thing that can stop the machines from destroying zion is Neo.

[bgraf0587]

heres what I think about this all-

The original Matrix was made to contain people and according to the architect, 99% of the people in the Matrix accept it. Also as the architect said, it they left that 1% who didnt accept it unchecked it would result in a total system failure or whatever. So, my thoughts are, what if Zion and the whole "Real World" is yet another "Matrix" to contain the people who didnt accept the original matrix, but are tricked into believeing that the world they live in (Zion) is real, when in realitiy it is just another "Matrix".

-Also, this is kind of way out, but in regarding the other persons post that has given reasons for Morpheus to possibly be bad, what if Morpheus is a program running in the Zion matrix that is used to "free" the people who no longer belive in the original matrix and take them to the "Zion" matrix.

[The FM]

There is also a good chance the Neo is actually "The One".

In part 1, Trinity tells him that "you move like they do(referring to the agents), I've never seen anyone move like them."

He is the only one of all the people who are free that can fly inside the Matrix(up to now we have not seen anyone else fly).

The Oracle tells Neo when they finish talking in Reloaded, "For what it's worth, you made a believer out of me." Remember, there supposedly were 5 versions of "The One" before him.

The Merovingian was really more upset that Neo defeated all of his henchmen and left the scene like the classic villian of all the movies we have seen: " Mark my words, boy, just as I have survived the previous ones, I will survive you." (Bet he never said that to the earlier versions)

Finally, the arch. was taken back when Neo noticed right away that his question was not answered.
I think this is the first time anyone went thru the left door.

Morph.: "What happened?" (when finding Trinity holding Neo)
Trin.: " I don't know."

That is because "The One" is finally arrived to end the Matrix. That is why the machines are digging asap before Neo gets to them.

I might be wrong but these scenes got me thinking.:cool:

[sTealTh76]

Here is a theory to toss around.

Smith is part Neo, and Neo part Smith, from their exchange and the end of "The Matrix". He now represents the same kind of improbability to the Matrix that Neo does. This element of improbability is what let Neo manipulate the Matrix as he sees fit.

Smith may have that power too now, IF his consciousness weren't running on a machine that is bound figuring using equations instead of improbilities.

So.. he now has transferred his consciousness into Bane. Bane hasn't made it back into the Matrix yet though. Smith's consciousness operating out of a human brain (using improbabilities) in the Matrix could possibly give him the same powers as Neo in Revolutions.

Neo vs. Smith, with Smith having equal powers. Why else would he be facing off against only one Smith in the Revolutions trailer? He can easily topple many Smiths, unless there is a Smith that has the same powers as Neo.

Okay, I know this may be a bit far fetched, but I think it could happen. That my theory.. someone tear it apart for me. LOL

[pneuman]

I just saw the movie again, and some of my theories are starting to take some shape, and I would appreciate some feedback.

Pay attention, this makes sense:

The Architect explains to Neo that the Oracle is actually the one who found a way to enslave humans in the Matrix. He says that the Oracle came up with the solution to give mankind free choice, at least on a subconscious level, whether or not they would accept the Matrix. Thus, 99 percent test subjects accepted the Matrix. However, there was a 1 percent anomaly that did not accept it, aka Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, Zion. These people found a way to free themselves form the Matrix and build Zion. Now, this is where Neo is so important to the Architect and machines. The Architect explains that within Neo is the PRIME CODE of the Matrix, and when Neo walks through the right door to Reload the Matrix and save humanity, his code (and thus himself) disseminates throughout the Matrix and reboots the program, and thus re-enslaves all those who were freed from the Matrix. The reason the Matrix must be reloaded is that when enough people have been free from the Matrix (which are the 1 percent anomaly), they begin to threaten the existence of the Matrix, threatening to bring it down. So, this is why Neo must reload the Matrix. Thus, the Oracle might be bad, helping to find The One in every instance the Matrix has been reloaded and sending him to eventually end up at the Architect. Then the Architect convinces Neo to save mankind by rebooting the Matrix. However, the Architect also explains that the 5 previous incarnations of The One had a general love for mankind, and not a love as specific and great as Neo has for Trinity. As a result, perhaps the Architect is unable to see which door Neo will really choose, and because Neo chooses Trinity over rebooting the Matrix, he believes he will have a chance to save Trinity and finally free all humans rather than continue the perpetual loop of reloading. For the Architect says Neo is the beginning and the end, and thus Neo can finally bring an end to this. The Oracle might be deceived into sending Neo to the Architect, or perhaps she sees that Neo is the TRUE ONE who will make the decision that the Architect cannot see and save humanity by finally freeing us. Remember how Neo takes the red candy from the Oracle and they are talking about free choice at that time? And in the first movie the red pill was the pill to free you from the Matrix. Thus, the red candy is a symbolic gesture of Neo's ability to actually make a free choice uncontrolled by anyone else. So, either the Oracle is bad, by either purpose or by being deceived, or she is deceiving the Architect by really believing Neo is the one. She does say to Neo, "You've finally made a believer out of me."

Summary: Neo has the prime code to reboot the Matrix, without him, the Matrix cannot be destroyed. The Architect needs the Matrix to be rebooted every so often so that the growing 1 percent anomaly of people who reject the Matrix cannot bring it down and thus end the power source for the machines.
This is also why Agent Smith wants Neo dead. Because if the Matrix is rebooted, so is Agent Smith and he loses his new powers. But if Neo dies before the Matrix is rebooted, the Matrix can never be reloaded. Then Agent Smith can copy himself over every human being and computer program in the Matrix, and thus gain power and take ultimate control over the Matrix and thus mankind for all eternity.

Hence the name of the film: The Matrix Reloaded.

Offer some insights, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PsYkOoOoO]

Originally posted by Megaman
shut the f cuk up


word to that..

[HoustonsProblem]

Originally posted by thebtskink
3:14 ..... that time in the final scene.... could it mean Pi?

i read in a magazine that the wachowski brothers did intend that to be Pi

[The Philosopher]

Just a couple of queries and thoughts i had:

1) The Architect and the Oracle are both programs (I'm assuming created by the machines). If these programs are making other programs (weird), then when tey get rebooted, wouldn't their memories be erased like everyone elses. How do these programs function when they aren't in the matrix. This baffles me a bit.

2) I'm pretty sure (although ive only seen it once) that there are 23 people to be taken back when the Matrix is rebooted to rebuild Zion (16 female, 7 male). Is it not significant that this is the number of chromosomes in a human before fertilization when we are "half complete". I thought that this might be saying that without the Matrix the humans cannot survive. i.e we need the matrix.

3) If there is 2 matrix's, whats up with the so called real world in between where they fly around in their ships doing all the things they do? is it possible that they can hack from one matrix into another matrix and then also into the real world?

4) I was a bit confused by the mainframe bit. What is Neo actually aiming to do now. I had the impression that as soon as he walked through that door the world would be over.

5) Lots of other things that i found a bit weird, cant wait for the dvd commentary :) see what they really meant.

[himself]

replying HoustonsProblem's
"everyone is forced to retrace their steps" .... everyone and everything happens the exact same... which means Neo is the only 'one'"
i believe what he means by retracing their steps is the procedure is basically the same..doesnt happen exactly the same ALL THE TIME...if it did...then Neo wouldn't be in love with Trinity..which is different!

and for Thesean1211 's
"how come neo in the "real world"/zion matrix cant see the code?"
Neo can't see all types of code and everything. When he was about to see the oracle...he looked at the asian guy and he was just a mere glow of light to neo. Maybe he's coded using a different code type...and maybe the new zion matrix is too.

And it's great that pneuman has seen the movie twice...getting some more info and some harcore evidence. I plan to watch it again tomorrow...
"Thus, 99 percent test subjects accepted the Matrix. However, there was a 1 percent anomaly that did not accept it, aka Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, Zion. These people found a way to free themselves from the Matrix and build Zion"
"when enough people have been free from the Matrix (which are the 1 percent anomaly), they begin to threaten the existence of the Matrix, threatening to bring it down."

the machines obviously cant have this happening...that is why i believe that they have constructed a zion matrix. Anamolies are created b/c the machines still can't write the perfect code to depict human behaviour...i.e choice and freedom. Some humans plugged up are always feeling like there's something wrong with the world...that's b/c they lack freedom, they have choice that isn't really choice...and the choices they make are really already predefined by equations. The human mind doesn't accept life b/c he/she wants to believe that they have a choice or have freedom.
"All reality is virtual to an artifical mind"
Thinking that you are free is as good as being free to the mind.
I think the machines may be getting sick and tired of having to reload the matrix in order to survive...its an inusiance..and plus they run the risk of actually being brought down. That is why they have decided to create the zion matrix so those who free themselves from the matrix matrix end up moving into the zion matrix thinking they're free, hence they will not be anamolies no more in zion b/c they no longer think that something is wrong or feel that they're missing freedom. This is the PERFECT MATRIX!

But this is not complete yet...they plan on implementing it...i think Neo is their first test subject...and that's why u see trinity in the matrix matrix wanting to get him out of the zion matrix in the revolutions trailer.

[thinktank]

Originally posted by himself
replying HoustonsProblem's

and for Thesean1211 's
"how come neo in the "real world"/zion matrix cant see the code?"
Neo can't see all types of code and everything. When he was about to see the oracle...he looked at the asian guy and he was just a mere glow of light to neo. Maybe he's coded using a different code type...and maybe the new zion matrix is too.


"All reality is virtual to an artifical mind"
Thinking that you are free is as good as being free to the mind.
I think the machines may be getting sick and tired of having to reload the matrix in order to survive...its an inusiance..and plus they run the risk of actually being brought down. That is why they have decided to create the zion matrix so those who free themselves from the matrix matrix end up moving into the zion matrix thinking they're free, hence they will not be anamolies no more in zion b/c they no longer think that something is wrong or feel that they're missing freedom. This is the PERFECT MATRIX!

But this is not complete yet...they plan on implementing it...i think Neo is their first test subject...and that's why u see trinity in the matrix matrix wanting to get him out of the zion matrix in the revolutions trailer.



i just thought i needed to add that a reason neo cant see the code in the zion matrix(if it exists) is because in m1 he couldnt see it until he completely beleived and realised the truth...in the zion matrix he thinks its real just like in m1 when he could not see the code cos everything looked real.

also, there could be a chance that neo never left the matrix after meeting the architech....which may or may not blow the matrix matrix out the door.

[Tyrian]

First of all I can relate to your thinking and I agree for the most part. However, theres a couple of things we need to remember (To anyone who hasnt already I cant stress enough that you need to head over to www.theanimatrix.com and watch everything you can there and understand all you can)

- The chain of events so far

> Man continues down the technological highway "And for a time, it was good"

> Man then created machine in his own image

> The machines worked tirelessly to do mans bidding, yet never earned any respect from their masters

> B166ER was the first machine to rise up against his masters because his owners wanted to terminate their "Property". B166ER was prosecuted and quickly destroyed after being found guilty of murdering his masters.

> This caused the machines to protest and revolt and thus the machine was banished by humanity.

> The machines sought refuge in theor own promised land and they called it '01'

> Having 01 created the machines prospered created newer and better "AI" which could be seen in everywhere in mans society and eventually '01' surpassed the human realm as a nation, with the human economy collapsing due to 01's large industrial growth.

> Man isolated 01 from the world and imposed econimic sanctions on it.

> 01's embassadors pleaded to be heard, and at the united nations presented plans that would enable man and machine to live in harmony however their admissions were refused by the united nations.

> Mankind sought to destroy 01. the machines resisted

> Mankind conceived operation 'darkstorm' to cut the machines main energy source - the sun

> The battle between man and machine raged on for centuries, the machine eventually close to completely destroying all of humanity.

> The machine realises it can use the natural energy of humans as its energy source (Thus every new born is "Harvested" and the matrix is born. And the world as we may know it.)

- In my oppinion the oracle is exactly what we're lead to believe, she is simply an AI that 'believed' that giving humans a choice would lead to their success in the matrix ("Youve made a believer out of me") meaning she now beleives there is good in humanity (there is one other possibilty which I'll get to later) I dont think the candy is relavent but an intreasting point none the less.

- Regarding Thesean1211 's theory that zion is also a matrix I find hard to go with. The Matrix as a story has always had this almost supernatural feel to it, somewhat biblical (ill get to that later). If you consider the story of the matrix and try and forget it as the movie we know it, zion being a matrix doesnt make sense... if zion is another matrix then the zion matrix and the matrix they jack in and out of is infact then the same matrix but given youve only been told this story as the free world existing beyond the 'fake' world (the matrix) you make that distinction between the two. If that doesnt make sense to you then my next conclusion is a little straight forward: Very simply looking at it from a writers perspective it would be stupid to all of a sudden turn zion (The supposed real world) into another matrix, if the author suggested that zion was infact another matrix whose to say that the matrix that creates the zion matrix which also creates the matrix matrix is infact another matrix! It gets to a point where it wouldnt do the story itself justice, so I highly doubt zion is another matrix.

- Which brings me to neo. Like I said, ive always felt this movie had another element, not man, nor machine. Is it not possible that Neo can not only do amazing things in the matrix but also has the ability to do un-natural things in the 'real' world. (Hell superman did it, and all he had as an excuse was a rock) But what if he is mankinds savior? what if Agent Smith is actually the anti-christ? Like I touched on earlier, when the oracle says "Youve made a believer out of me" Maybe she just wasnt refering to her thoughts on humanity or broadly, perhaps she believed neo was something more? food for thought

- Finally i would like to bring up something I noticed the 2nd time i watched it and having watched it again it seems to be true. After unplugging from the matrix and saving trinity, Morpheus has a hard time comprehending the prophecy wasnt true. where in actual fact it was true but Neo has just told a lie. Think back to the scene with the Architect (Aka Kernel Sanders) Neo has a choice, walk through the door to the right and u rely on hope alone, go through the left and the war stops and humanity is guaranteed to survive (bearing in mind only 20 maybe chosen). Neo chooses hope, not allowing trinity to die. If he HAD walked through the left door then the prophecy would have been fulfilled. Yet when Morpheus asked Neo what happened he says otherwise and that the upcomming attack couldnt be avoided despite seeing the architect and doing as the oracle instructs.

I would like to know your thoughts on this,

[JAE]

In reference to your last part. I don't think the machines anticipated humans choosing "Hope", machines can't understand the concept. By doing this, Neo will still be able to save humanity, how I don't know. Perhaps he is the only "One" to make that choice and the Matrix will not be able to build another version because it didn't go as planned. Same thing for the prophecy. Neo will still be the one to save them, it happened in that room, but will just take a little longer.

Does that make sense?

[Boods]

maybe this was said before im not sure ..

there is a reason why its 314 seconds : 3.14 is pie and pie represents the circumference of a circle. when u get to pie, u get to the end which is also the beginning. same with cycle of the matrix. which restarted 5 times already

also i was wondering... in matrix 1 when neo is first caught by the three agents, he is taken to a white room where is interogated and they put the bug in him.. well we first see neo through many tv screens and then the camera goes in one of them.. arent those tv screens the ones of the architect.. i paused and they look identical and it definitely seems possible IMO

[wookie11]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by thebtskink
3:14 ..... that time in the final scene.... could it mean Pi?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



i read in a magazine that the wachowski brothers did intend that to be Pi





Oh, misssed that completly, can someone expand on that?

moreso expand on when that clock was seen?

[morpheous85]

"also i was wondering... in matrix 1 when neo is first caught by the three agents, he is taken to a white room where is interogated and they put the bug in him.. well we first see neo through many tv screens and then the camera goes in one of them.. arent those tv screens the ones of the architect.. i paused and they look identical and it definitely seems possible IMO"

-boods

I noticed that too! I don't know if it means anything special but I thougt it should be pointed out.

[bgraf0587]

one question, if Zion is not part of the matrix of if it is not its own matrix, then how has it been destroyed and rebuilt 5 times without anyone knowing about it?

[DangerMouse]

Also keep in mind that the Archetect alluded to 2 Matrix-es.

He was the Father of the one that resembled 1999.

Zion, on the other hand also had an archetect. A mother.

In order to save the Human race and destroy the machines, Neo has to take out the mainframe or "mother" of the Zion Matrix.

But to be devils advocate, because they (humans) are being downloaded as a program into the Matrix (to get access) through a direct connection to their brain, it is possible for Agent Smith to exist in the "Real" using a host body. It doesn't mean there are 2 Matrix.

But the real mystery (and solution) revolves around the relationship between Agent Smith and Neo.

Personally: There is no spoon.

[ploogh]

Just saw it last night. I was suprised to see that so many people didnt like it. I got a heads up on the sex scene and the cake eating orgasm scene so I was expecting those to be long and annoying. Actually, compared to a lot of the smut on the screens these days, I thought the Neo/Trinity sex scene was tastefully done (maybe even artfully done), not nearly the 5minute long scene described (only about 2 or 3) and the Rave going on was interesting imagery against the pounding rhythm. I wasnt annoyed. As for the cake eating orgasm scene. It was another (of many in this movie) attempt to get people into the idea that EVERYTHING in the Matrix is a program, and that everything you see being represented in a picture or a reaction is the result of computer codes interacting in accordance with the "rules" defined within the Matrix.

Here are my thoughts:

Suprise, they used more "bullet time". But they used it well, especially in the truck collision/explosion with Morpheus and the Keymaker getting rescued by Neo. That use of that trick was intensely satisfying.

The Burley Brawl - Hey, they committed themselves to the CGI trip in order to be able to have that camera flying around at 100mph and then doing a CGI version of bullet time. Its not perfect, but I thought it was fun.

They start to undress the "perfection" of the machine world when as you start to discover rogue programs that dont play by the rules (one of which is Smith).

The explanation of vampires, ghosts, werewolves as rogue programs that start to entertain themselves at the expense of humans by breaking the rules.

Its not that Neo is a mathmatical probability, he is the inevitable result of a mathmatical probabilty. 15% of humans wont accept the "reality" of the Matrix (and by the way they all become geeky computer hackers), and eventually one will come along that not only wont accept it, but also has enough intuition and exceptional "geekiness" to master the rules. It has happened 6 times and the Architect hasnt figured out how to fix this "anomaly". So he pulls out the restore disc and takes it back to factory defaults each time it happens, then futzes with the code some more to try to resolve the issue next time.

The Oracle is not a rogue program, she was a program that was designed to study human behavior. Her addition to the Architect's "perfect Matrix" (which failed miserably) was the computer code that made the Matrix more like real gritty life. In order to make it real, people had to have the ability to chose the wrong thing, something bad, something "evil". (The forbidden fruit, gee, ya think this has religious overtones, Zion, the Nebuchadnezzar, Trinity). Says the Architect "If I am the Father of the Matrix, the Oracle is its Mother".

Whats going on with those screens and Neo's reactions is somewhat up for grabs. Its either his possible reactions or its all of his conflicting reactions simultaneously, (but its not the reactions of former Neos)

Im definitely of the opinion that the Architect, realizing that he cant prevent the anomaly, decided to create a Matrix within a Matrix to try to have an added level of control to the program. Neo recognized it after his meeting with the Architect because a)he is getting more experienced b)its the first time he has been in trouble in the "real world" c) its a convenient time for him to notice script wise because otherwise they are going to get their asses kicked. (Oh, yeah thats right, this is fiction, we've accepted all the bullet dodging up to now and then go "hey that wouldnt happen")

BTW, Smith copied himself into a Zion dweller and then took the telephone exit that was offered to him which meant that he then entered into the mind of the person whose body he had taken. This promotes the idea that the "real world" is actually still the Matrix to me, but the real world Matrix has different rules therefore he takes on the visible form of the person whose body he returned to. And in case anyone missed it at the end, it was Smith in the other persons body who was also in a coma at the end, they had found him as the only survivor of the Zion fleet that was fighting the Sentinels, AND they had reason to believe that they had been betrayed to the machines by someone...maybe Smith...maybe not. He doesnt seem interested being part of the program otherwise so I dont know.

The French guy was annoying. They were trying to make you hate him in the shortest time possible. Also trying to give a little impetus to why his wife hated him (hence the cake eating orgasm scene).

The other thing about the criticism that I find ironic is this, the Wachowski brothers who wrote and directed these movies come from the comic book world. This is a comic book brought to life and amazingly well I think. It seems characteristically appropriate for people like Morpheus to speak with grandiose verbosity. Though corny, it seems to fit the neighborhood. Additionally, if you know anything about it, they really think of the last two movies as one movie that doesnt fit the 2 hour format. Im confident that Revolutions will make you like Reloaded even more. (Youre going to pay the money anyway, Im sure of it and "My beliefs dont require others to believe".)

While I didnt mind the sex scene, I did think that the trade of the Keymaster for a kiss in the bathroom was pretty stupid. That was the only thing worth a rebellion in my mind. Could have developed that transition a little better.

Anyway, I thought it delivered. Great action, cool special effects, some pretty good CGI, love scene okay, new plot twists, new computer/real world analogies (that alot of people missed). Im going to see it again.

Later.

[Thesean1211]

Originally posted by Tyrian


- Regarding Thesean1211 's theory that zion is also a matrix I find hard to go with. The Matrix as a story has always had this almost supernatural feel to it, somewhat biblical (ill get to that later). If you consider the story of the matrix and try and forget it as the movie we know it, zion being a matrix doesnt make sense... if zion is another matrix then the zion matrix and the matrix they jack in and out of is infact then the same matrix but given youve only been told this story as the free world existing beyond the 'fake' world (the matrix) you make that distinction between the two. If that doesnt make sense to you then my next conclusion is a little straight forward: Very simply looking at it from a writers perspective it would be stupid to all of a sudden turn zion (The supposed real world) into another matrix, if the author suggested that zion was infact another matrix whose to say that the matrix that creates the zion matrix which also creates the matrix matrix is infact another matrix! It gets to a point where it wouldnt do the story itself justice, so I highly doubt zion is another matrix.



First off i would like to say that i too disagree with the matrix within a matrix idea. My first post concerning the matter was supposed to be sarcastic saying that, and i quote myself, " If zion is another matrix, why cant Neo see the code of the zion matrix. Is it because he isnt aware that it is a matrix. Or is it because zion isnt a matrix." I wish i were a good writer to convey what i am thinking. Anyway, I dont agree with the matrix within a matrix idea, not just because of the fact that i had thought of, but because there are many more stated in previous posts which i agree with.

[Tim37ninjageniu]

Okay here is something concerning the Oracle:

So far we dont know that she has lied at all. We know that she was telling the truth about Trinity loving the One. In fact we know that is true because Trinity sort of resurected Neo in a way.

All we know about the prophecy is that the One would go to the Source and that would bring about the destruction of the matrix. For all we know it will. Something that happened with the Architect will allow Neo to eventually destroy the machines.

Also and most importantly, the candy the oracle offered Neo looked a lot like a RED PILL ie truth

just my thoughts

There is no spoon.

[JohnnySocko]

When Neo displays those powers on the Sentinels, I believe that he is in fact in the real world. Something that was never much explained in the first Matrix film would be the fact that each person hooked into the Matrix is actually hooked into the Matrix in more ways than one. For instance, person's hooked into the Matrix have plugs and or outlets attached to their limbs and on the back of their heads. It is through the port on the back of their head that they actually can go back into the Matrix.

This would tend to suggest that their physiology is genetically altered to accept electrical impluses in a much different manner than a human unborn into the Matrix. Hence the Oracle suggested to Neo that an ultimate goal for the Matrix would be for humans and machines to somehow peacefully coexist. It was also pointed out in the first Matrix that the machine of course require human beings for a energy source. And that tends to suggest that the humans and machine are somehow biologically connected.

The full extent and to what degree those ports and outlets in the humans have use for was only briefly touched upon. Did not the Oracle and the Architect both tell Neo that much of what he's been dealing with has to do with control? If that's so, then when Neo chooses to take a path that no other Anomaly before him had taken, he inherently freed his mind to an entire new perspective of the Matrix(plug on the promotional billboards and posters they all say free your mind!). Neo now knows that him and every human ever hooked into the Matrix, share a special relationship with the computers that have enslaved them.

Now what has to happen as was suggested to by the trailer for Matrix Revolutions, is that Neo must awaken the people pf Zion and they've got to take the battle to the Sentinels. Then Neo must go back into the Matrix one final time and shut it all down, ending the cycle that the Architect told him the Matrix has been redoing over and over again. And the reason why Agent Smith tells Neo in the trailer that it's been awhile when they confront each other in the rainy street is because Neo is busy taking up the fight in the real world. And their meeting is the final confrontation.

[beemanbone]

I've only seen the film once, so forgive my ignorance.

Is the architect the creator of all scripts? (rogue included)

Does reloading the matrix only affect humans? Wouldn't this explain why rogue scripts like the French guy are aware of multiple Neos...because scripts are never reloaded?

If scripts are never reloaded & Neo's ultimate purpose is to ensure the smooth running of the matrix by choosing the door, then why are so many scripts trying to kill him? (I understand Smith wanting to keep his new powers, but he wanted to stop Neo even before he got the powers)

The french guy was impressed/unaware of Neo's ability to stop bullets. Since he has seen so many Neos before, was this a power previous "ones" did not have? If this is true, how in the hell did they keep making it all the way to the architect's room when all of these powerful scripts were trying to kill their weak asses?

Why doesn't seeing a man fly down the middle of the street with a cyclone of cars following him cause normal people to question the world they are in?

[Lackey]

Originally posted by beemanbone
I've only seen the film once, so forgive my ignorance.

Is the architect the creator of all scripts? (rogue included)

It's never said, but I myself would guess that he is only the creator of the matrix and not of all the programs that inhabit the matrix.

Does reloading the matrix only affect humans? Wouldn't this explain why rogue scripts like the French guy are aware of multiple Neos...because scripts are never reloaded?

I would guess this to be true because even other programs besides the Merovingian know of past 'anomalies'
However they may not be aware of the "bigger picture"... that the war and the prophecy is just another means of controlling the humans.
It seems that in some ways, the programs and machines are being taken advantage of by "the system" as much as the humans are.

In the game, there is a bum (a rogue program) that tells Niobe that Zion only lasted 72 hours "the last time"

If scripts are never reloaded & Neo's ultimate purpose is to ensure the smooth running of the matrix by choosing the door, then why are so many scripts trying to kill him? (I understand Smith wanting to keep his new powers, but he wanted to stop Neo even before he got the powers)

Perhaps to create a believable challenge for the freed people and also Neo when it's all just a system of control. The programs after Neo and the others are only doing what they were meant (written) to do. They have no choice... when they break from their purpose, they are deleted or exiled.
Perhaps, as I said above, the programs don't know the bigger picture either and are deceived just as the humans are (were).

The french guy was impressed/unaware of Neo's ability to stop bullets. Since he has seen so many Neos before, was this a power previous "ones" did not have? If this is true, how in the hell did they keep making it all the way to the architect's room when all of these powerful scripts were trying to kill their weak asses?

Well, even if the "ones" were not able to do what Neo does, they were still probably at least as powerful as an agent and agents can dodge bullets. and perhaps they didn't run into the same obstacles that Neo did. Also, the architect could've been watching over them and ensuring their safety.
Also, perhaps it would be impossible to kill them in the matrix since they can resurrect themselves as neo did in the first movie.

Why doesn't seeing a man fly down the middle of the street with a cyclone of cars following him cause normal people to question the world they are in?

The Matrix probably has ways of fixing this...

Think about Neo when he was taken in by the agents and implanted with a bug... the whole even was as a dream to him until he met with Trinity and she removed the bug from his stomach... he was shocked to realize that it was real.
Any supernatural event is probably made to be a dream to the people that see it and all evidence of the event is rewritten. That's just a guess.
But also perhaps that does cause people to question the world... and perhaps that's part of Neo's purpose, remember the phone conversation at the end of the first movie..."I'm going to hang up this phone and show them a world you don't want them to see... a world without boundaries or borders..."

[simork]

Also re people who think zion is not another matrix...

When they created the first matrix it was perfect, but the inherent fallibility of man wouldn't accept it. So they created another, a simpler version that 99% would accept.

However there was still that 1% integral anomaly. So they built a more complex program, ie the zion program. To deal with these 'advanced minds' including neo. That is why neo can feel the machines. Perhaps that is why zion is also tinted blue - ie. the blue pill: continuing to see the world through an illusion.

Also what is the significance of sunglasses? Whether they are off or on, cos God knows its not sunny. I prefer to detract from serious analysis for a moment and compare it to the blues bros. Jake only takes his glasses off once. Perhaps the W bros see themselves as the blues brothers, on a mission from God?

That last part was a joke lads and laddettes.

[simork]

What then does the Oracle mean in Matrix 1 when she says (regarding Morpheus): "Without him *we're* lost"...?

Also can we compare the Architect to God? And thus the first (perfect) matrix to the garden of eden?

Also why does the Architect even give Neo a choice? why doesn't he say "welcome to the white room, the end of your jourey where all the programs have led you, the end of the path of the one. Now go through that One door". why would the machines risk the chance of Neo choosing the wrong door?

My other thought regarding this is that the architect wants him to choose trinity, as it is the architect that informs Neo she has entered the matrix, thus triggering the emotion of love, and rubs this in by showing multiple images of trinity fighting and falling...

Anyhoo, just some thoughts. Wouldn't mind them answered but.

[simork]

re: the 7 males 16 females thing...I heard somewhere that:

The story of Noah's flood is in Genesis chapter 7.

Genesis 7:16 (7 males and 16 females in Matrix) says, "And they that entered, male and female of all flesh, went in as God had commanded him; and the LORD shut him in."

7:16

What is the significance of 12? The clocks are all 12, and if I am not mistaken when Morph gives his big speech about being soldiers in a war, "worth dying for", and we see the clock it is 12 to 12. ??

Anyone?

3:14 is Pi. Circular.

Interesting that Zion is also (as password) Z10N. In the animatrix the first machine city was 01...

[simork]

Also why does the Architect even give Neo a choice? why doesn't he say "welcome to the white room, the end of your jourey where all the programs have led you, the end of the path of the one. Now go through that One door". why would the machines risk the chance of Neo choosing the wrong door?

[GhostDog]

The Architect MUST give him a choice. My evidence:
1. The Arcitect stated that the One was the remainder of an equation nessesary for the Matrix program to work. This remainder exists because in order to work, the matrix must take into account on human characteristic: choice, free will. (the original Matrix failed, as Smith points out in the 1st movie, because no one would accept the programming; They must be allowed to choose.
2. Th culmination of that remainder, over 2000 years, is Neo, or the One. This One has the power to "remake the Matrix as he sees fit", and his journey towards truth brings him to the Architect. The architect is now faced with a dilema: Refuse him a choice in his existance, and crash the Matrix program or Grant him a choice (the Matrix and all of humanity or Trinity, whom he assures is dead in any case), and predict that the probability that Neo will enter the source and allow the Architect to reboot the matrix will be in his favor, and he is right, mostly. Neo (or some One) chose humanity and the Matrix over Trinity or some other option the last five times. Howver, the Architect notes that Neo has experienced something his predecesors had not: love.
3. The architect had to give Neo a choice. Anyone who understands how computers process information knows that programming is an exact science. A running program will not let stray numbers fall off the ends of equations out of a need for tidyness. There must be a yes or no, this or that answer at the core of any computer instruction. Neo was basically an instruction, a line of code, going back to the programmer and saying, why am I here. The architect had to answer or crash the matrix.

[simork]

Thanks Ghost Dog

[pneuman]

I BEG YOU! PLEASE READ THIS! I HAVE BEEN FORMULATING THESE THOUGHTS FOR THE PAST FEW TIMES AND HAVE MADE THIS AS STRAIGHTFORWARD AS CAN BE! IT WILL HELP MANY, I HOPE TO UNDERSTAND THE TRUE MEANINGS OF THIS MOVIE, OR AT LEAST SOME OF THEM! A LONG READ, I KNOW, BUT WELL WORTH IT.

I saw the movie a third time and here are my thoughts, as simply as can be:

1) Neo is the PRIME CODE of the Matrix, only he can reboot it, and only he can reboot it if given free will to enter the door to reload the Matrix. Once he enters that door, his code, and thus his entire self, disseminates into the Matrix, rebooting it.

2) The Architect needs Neo to reboot the Matrix because once enough of the 1 percent of the anomaly of people who do not accept the Matrix are freed from it, they will mount a counterstrike against the sentinels and the Matrix and threaten to destroy it.

3) Agent Smith needs Neo dead so that the Prime Code of the Matrix is destroyed and it can never be rebooted. Thus, he can copy his program over all the human minds in the Matrix, and thus no more humans can be freed, and thus he will gain ultimate control over the Matrix forever. He could be the Anti-Christ. Or Neo could be the Anti-Christ, performing miracles and getting people to almost worship and follow him religiously and put all faith in him, when in actuality, he will lead to the Matrix being rebooted. Maybe he is the Anti-Christ without knowing it. That is a far stretch and I do not even think it true, but still a possibility.

4) The Oracle truly believes Neo is the TRUE ONE! The true Messianic Savior to save mankind. Even though she is a program, she wants humanity to free itself because she believe humans and machine (such as herself) can live in harmony together. Thus, she actually fools the Architect by sending Neo to him because Neo "has finally made a believer out of her" after coming back SIX times and she knows that this Neo can save humanity. The Red Candy Oracle gives Neo is important because it establishes in Neo's mind that there is still some sense of free will he has, no matter what happens, and gives him hope he can accomplish his task. It also reaffirms that the Oracle believes in Neo's ability to freely choose to save humanity by defying the Architect.

5) Hope and love compell Neo to choose Trinity over rebooting the Matrix because Neo is sick and tired of restarting the loop and keeping man in perpetual enslavement to the Matrix. Though he may be risking mankind's very existence by saving Trinity, he brings hope that he will be able to save it. If not, oh well, because death is better than the illusion of reality and being enslaved forever. BY THE WAY, THE ENDING OF THE THIRD FILM IS VERY UNCLEAR. Because in the words of the Architect: "Hope; the quintessential element of humanity which simultaneously serves as mankind's STRENGTH AND WEAKNESS! So, either Hope will give Neo strength to free humanity from the Matrix or lead to man's destruction by blinding man from seeing the real truths.

6) Zion is NOT another Matrix. The reason Zion keeps getting destroyed is so that once the Matrix has been reloaded, there are not still free people who can bring it down. BUT, Zion needs to be rebuilt so that the people who free their minds, and eventually Neo, have a place to stay. If Zion did not exist, when Neo is freed, he would have nowhere to go, no way to survive, and no way to get back to the Matrix time and time again to RELOAD it.

7) The significance in this being the sixth Neo and the sixth time the Matrix has been created is that in HINDUISM, there is the belief that the world will be created and destroyed time again, and eventually by the sixth time, there will be a CHANCE to save mankind and the world from repeating itself so humanity can spiritually transcend and enlighten and go to the next level of existence.

8) There are 12 council members. These council members are all old. Thus, these council members are from the 23 that the previous 5 Neo's selected to repopulate Zion. They are possibly a parallel to Jesus Christ's 12 Disciples, and Neo is their Jesus, their leader to save them. The council has complete belief in him and that is why they send ships out to help Neo.

9) By film's end, it is said that the prophecy will either be fulfilled or not fulfilled within the next 24 hours, which is the time period the final movie probably takes place in. So the Oracle's phrophecy that the war will end is correct, but the victor is not clearly seenn because we do not fully know if the Architect knew which door Neo would go in. If Neo fooled the Architect, that means that there is some part of humanity that machines cannot fully understand and predict, and so they may not be able to know if mankind can really defeat them and see the truth.

10) The bullet time, or slowing of action when in mid air for example, actually parallels the BUDDHIST philosophy that in order to reach Nirvana (true spiritual enlightenment, truth, awareness and knowing of one's self, and human happiness), one must create control and stillness in every facet of their lives. Hence, Trinity, Neo, Morpheus can slow their actions and almost stop time, gaining that stillness, alluding to the fact they actually see or are beginning to see the truth and become spiritually enlightened.

11) The selection of 23 to repopulate Zion could be symbollic of 23 chromosomes, half a person, as someone earlier posted. Perhaps the other half to a person is actually part machine. Perhaps over time, mankind evolved and our technology evolved and maybe we destroyed the earth so much that it was only natural to merge with machine and perhaps all of humanity existing now is part machine in some way. Maybe this is why Neo can destroy the sentinels outside the Matrix, because he is part machine in actuality too. Just a theory.

12) Trinity; a symbol for the Christian Triune God, or perhaps bringing three of the major religions of the world together, such as Christianity, Hinduism, and Buddhism. Or maybe she is a symbol for the trinity of herself, Morpheus, and Neo. Morpheus is like the father figure of God, Neo Jesus, and Trinity is like the Holy Spirit, bringing love to others and acting as a source of strength and endurance. Just a thought. Regardless, this movie shows that religion is very important in some regard, maybe both good and bad, I do not fully understand.

13). The love scene with Neo was needed to show that Neo has a specialized and focused love for Trinity, not just for humanity like the other Neos had. This means that Neo's love for Trinity will lead him to the other door to save her and perhaps finally mankind, even though the Architect says the opposite, so he can maybe fool Neo into reloading the Matrix and keeping man enslaved. However, maybe his love for Trinity and hope for saving her will lead to his success in saving Trinity and failure in saving man, leading to humanity's destruction, proving what the Architect said about hope being man's greatest strength and weakness.

14) The cave dance scene is important. There are no outside lights in the cave, symbolizing that man still is being kept in the dark from the real truth and does not understand its existence. Secondly it shows that you can take the mind out of the system, but not the system out of the mind. They are still being disillusioned and have created a new system for themselves in Zion; religion basically. MOST IMPORTANTLY, the cave scene shows that mankind's basic and most primal of character traits, DESIRE, is what is leading to our ignorance and inability to see the real truth. For the Buddhists say that once ALL true desire is thrown down and destroyed in a person's life, even the most primal and basic of desires, then true Nirvana and enlightenment occurs. Until then, we can never see the truth. This is strengthened by the orgasm scene with the woman. It shows that you can mask the desire with pretty images and a false facade (mask), such as the woman, with her pretty dress, make-up, look of sophistication. But behind it all is still our basic desires of the flesh. Until we destroy those desires, we are blinded by the truth, as is evidenced by the woman being in the Matrix, and thus we will always be slaves to our desires.

That's it until I see the movie a fourth time today. I'll post soon. Please please please offer insights.

[Tyrian]

After reading the last couple of posts I think theres a couple of facts some are missing.

- Firstly, 'The Matrix' is a story about man vs machine. I think you will agree on that, otherwise this wouldntbe much of a story.

So therefore this thought that zion is another simply isnt true, otherwise the machines have already won. why bother with sentinels? If Zion is a running machine then why are there sentinels destroying it from within? Like I said before, if Zion is a matrix, then the 'origional matrix' and the zion matrix MUST be one single matrix, think about it.

To add: I've been thinking alot about this 'control' that is brought up in the movie. I think its a key factor in completely understanding the machines thoughts towards mankind. After all the whole essence of the matrix is about control. What would happen if the machine lost control of humanity and thus its power supply. The machines lifespan all depends on control, and Zion is a sanctuary where the machines HAVE lost control, at the same time think about Neos conversation with the counselor in the engineering level. - Something to think about

- Secondly, Why would the machine bother with a second so that humanity can revolt against the other matrix? - Remember the machines do not control the Zion, thats why there are sentinels (Machines) on their way to destroy it.

- Thirdly, If Zion IS a matrix then Sentinels must be programs. If you have watched all of the Animtrix you would see that sentinels arent programs, they are 'real' machines that were created in the second renaisance, before the matrix even existed. (this is fact)

But the main reason for this post isnt to discredit, however I still have a couple of questions.

#1 - Like I said, did anybody else pick up on Neos lie to Morpheus? (Read my last post)

#2 - What is Smith? This is actually a more difficult question than it appears. Note that there are now 4 parties involved (Very broadly). - Mankind (Neo, Trinity) , Machine [program/matrix](Architect, Oracle, the agents), And now Agent Smith (Which in programing terms could be described as a worm)

#3 - Are all members of Zion hackers? Those who Jack in and out of the matrix are ofcorse hackers, but what about the rest of zion? If not why is it that Neo, Trinity and other 'known' hackers are in the matrix? is it coincidence that they just happen to be hackers before 'waking up' ?

- To add to that obviously not ALL members of zion have that ability, think of a child that is born in Zion without ever being in the matrix.

[simork]

Re your 23 chromosomes thing...for the 7 males, 16 females

Genesis 7:16 says, "And they that entered, male and female of all flesh, went in as God had commanded him; and the LORD shut him in."

7:16

Genesis=the beginning

[Tyrian]

Sorry, you may have noticed I left out the '4th' party in my last post. I meant to add in that the people inside the matrix - who are unaware of reality make up the 4th party.

[Tyrian]

If I had a chance to read Pneumans post before I wrote my last post i wouldnt have bothered. I think Pneumans really hit it on the head.

It all makes sense, it all stays within the physics of the story and even gives an accurate picture of whats to come. even his references to religion are real and make sense.

After reading that post my questions are answered and I dont think any1 can do much better then that. If you find problems with it i can't please bring them to everyones attention.


Thanks heaps Pneuman. I can now sleep.

[PsYkOoOoO]

wow...

[himself]

I think ppl have gotten me all wrong about my zion matrix theory. I'm not supposing that everything 'real world' that we saw in matrix 1 and 2 is in fact the zion matrix. I just said the last few mins of the movie was in new zion matrix.

Reading JohnnySocko's posting about man and machine kinda co-existing in a way, such that man can control machines in the real world is understandable. But I think ppl are forgetting about the whole notion of how machines are trying to perfect the matrix. How can they do this? Reloading it 5 times with new code from solutions learned from previous 'the ones' isn't effective. There's always new 'ones' that threaten the dominance and survival of machine. Of course the only reasonable solution for the machines is to create the perfect matrix (eliminating anomolies) is to create a matrix that will give humans the notion that they have freedom of choice - zion matrix.

[emmadukes]

Glad to see that I was not the only one confused by the ending, but my interpretation was the same as most.

The thing I am still not sure about is the Oracle. I know her purpose is to get Neo to the Architect so he can make his "choice" but there seems something deeper - or something the Architect explained that I missed - that I am not getting. Help!

Also so the machines in the "real" word who are trying to destroy Zion are actual machines and NOT programs - yes?

Thought the movie had some great stuff, but could have used a few less or shorter fight scenes and bit more susbtance - or at least slower explanations!

Ciao

[GhostDog]

Tyrian, do you have the exact wording of the conversation in which Neo lied? I remember the scene but do not recall exactly what Neo said to Morpheus.

Thanx

[Stardog]

my points for the possibility that Zion is part of the matrix...

1) the allusion by the Architect that the matrix has been reloaded 5 times and zion has been destroyed 5 times (coincidence?)

2)at the end, Neo tells us "Something is different, I can feel them now" and Morpheus's quote "I dreamed a dream but now that dream is gone from me" a possible allusion to Zion being a dream world and the prophecy of the One not being real.

3) the gift of the spoon that Neo gets in Zion....remember, there is no spoon.

4)the machines have 2 choices to deal with the .1% that don't accept the matrix program... A) pull them out of the matrix and kill them or B) give them their own city with weapons machines and the technology to hack the matrix and be terrorists within it. (which makes more sense to you?)

5)if Zion is part of the matrix the machines have another option. The humans don't have to be killed. They still have the illusion of choice and the machines get their btu's.

Also, some have tried to use the Second Renisance to justify the history of the machines and the matrix. But, keep in mind, those stories come from the Zion archive (it says so in the shorts at the begining). So, it is still possible that Zion is a matrix and this is just a history the machines have created for the Zion population.

[Fable]

Stardog, you just said... "the allusion by the Architect that the matrix has been reloaded 5 times and zion has been destroyed 5 times (coincidence?)" i was under the impression that matrix was reloaded 6 times... if you want to read more about this go to my thread called, "Zion another matrix?" people have made some good points in there

[Stardog]

my bad.. 6

[Elro]

Hello
Maybe i got a explaination for de sex scene what happend as Trininity has become pregnant ?
Maybe a stupid idea

[Stardog]

Well, since revolutions takes place in a time period of 48 hours she better squeeze that kid out pretty quick.

[himself]

Just to clear things up...the matrix has been reloaded 5 times...and this is the 6th version of the matrix...

if it got reloaded 6 times it would've been the 7th version

[himself]

I trust that by now everyone has read the conversation b/w Neo and the Architect. If not here it is

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=a0bba9c8.0305171741.cc8e6e1%40posting. google.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

[Avianman87]

I was wondering why Neo fell into a coma at the end? Is it because he had never used his powers in the real world or zion matrix, or because of his connection with Smith, or some other reason?

[Fable]

i think it's because using this "new power" for the first time strained his mind and body so much that it just sort of knocked him out for the time being.

[Avianman87]

Another thought is that what if "the one" is actually another program used for control by the machines to simply give hope to the people of zion.

[pneuman]

The Matrix has been reloaded 5 times. This Neo is the sixth incarnation of the Prime Code.

Tyrian, it took me three times of seeing the movie to finally put it all together. I tried to explain myself as simply as can be, showing some of the philosophy I believe to be hidden in the movie. Thanks for reading it and appreciating it.

[Avianman87]

Just how can we take anything that the architect said to be truth. After all, like the oracle, he might not tell the entire truth. If you think about it, he said that by chossing the left door the matrix would be destroyed along with Zion and that Trinity would die. Neo has already proved the last of these to be false.

The problem is, if Neo can stop the machines in the "real world" like he can stop bullets in the Matrix, the war against them would be easy, unless there is another twist.

[Avianman87]

Just as a random thought, who do you think would win in a battle between the Twins and the Smiths?

[Arrakis]

pnewman said:

4) The Oracle truly believes Neo is the TRUE ONE! The true Messianic Savior to save mankind. Even though she is a program, she wants humanity to free itself because she believe humans and machine (such as herself) can live in harmony together. Thus, she actually fools the Architect by sending Neo to him because Neo "has finally made a believer out of her" after coming back SIX times and she knows that this Neo can save humanity. The Red Candy Oracle gives Neo is important because it establishes in Neo's mind that there is still some sense of free will he has, no matter what happens, and gives him hope he can accomplish his task. It also reaffirms that the Oracle believes in Neo's ability to freely choose to save humanity by defying the Architect.

This is the only thing that I really differ with in your post. I don't think that the Oracle neccisarily believes Neo is any different than the other "ones" before him. Like you said, she is a program. And Morpheus has already told us that she "tells you only what you need to hear." She might have just been programed to tell him that in order to get him to the source.

[simork]

Dunno but the one liners would be cool.

"I'm free...a...new man"

[Avianman87]

The other thing is did anyone notice, but after Neo returns from the source near the end of the movie in the "real world," did anyone have plugs, it might have been hard to tell because of the clothing?

Also, many people have been considering that the Merovingian was a previous one, yet wouldn't Neo notic something different about his code if he were?

[simork]

When Morph runs of the ship with that light stick thing he has a socket in 'is 'ed.

[Avianman87]

Thanks for clearing that up, it was beginning to drive me crazy.

Anyone have any premonitions as to what will occurr in the third movie?

[Ghostofzion2003]

It is purpose that connects us.

[darkma773r]

I noticed the coolest thing in the movie. When they're in the French guy's bathroom, there is this awesome urinal (sp) that is like a water fall. Every guy who has seen this movie has noticed it. It is soo00 cool, i want to pee in one just for the fun of it. It is so awesome, it would make a girl want to pee standing up.

You ppl have to tell me, is this not the dream bathroom of any man?

[SunnyCheeba]

personally I wouldn't mind peeing into a waterfall

[simork]

It is the dream bathroom only because Persephone is in it.

[Tempus]

The Matrix was originally conceived as a trilogy, this is the way the wachowski's thought it out. To say this isn't the same feel as The Matrix is only an interpretation. This is the brothers' vision and if you don't like it, so what? Personally, I feel this is a great trilogy that is going a little far in places, but have FAITH. I'm sure the third installment will wow everybody and make perfect sense.

This is all just filler before the next, setting up stories, plots and rivalries. You really do have to be in the matrix world (animatrix, enter the matrix) to really and fully appreciate this film. As I've seen them all and played through the game, it gives you more of an understanding - something I'd recommend all fans to do so.

The councellor that spoke with Neo during his sleepless night, knows about the rebuilding of zion, hence there are no people young on the council. These people know the path of things. Since Neo is now the 6th incarnation of "The One" he is more powerful ever, coupled with Love - He may well be the one to fulfill such a prophecy, be it within control or not. Agent Smith now has part of Neo within him, with their code copied and pasted within each other. If Agent Smith can exit the matrix via Bane after reprogramming his brain, who's to say that Neo, being the 01 (possibly the first two statements of the main matrix coding) of the code, this makes you wonder. Study the matrix code, you can see 0's 1's and letters A - F. This is hex code. If The actual matrix itself is run off Hex and Binary, then maybe Neo can now tap into say, the hex of the matrix whilst logged out, in the so called real world, giving him the ability to harness powers of the matrix, within the real world.

I find this to be a logical explanation of things. Fair enough, some parts of the film were all over the place, I will give it that. The Rave scene was a little pointless, but it was all to build morale. You can whinge, moan and complain all you want it's not going to make any difference because at the end of the day, we are but fanboys. I thought the explanation of werewolves, vampires etc was fantastic. They are just old programs roaming the matrix as they chose not to go to the source (a little paradox, choosing to go to the pearly gates of heaven or roaming the earth as a ghost).

If you play The Enter The Matrix game you fight vampires a plenty, with one being a boss. The music was good, but it is no longer totally kick ass. It's more computery/techno-ey. I've been listening to the soundtrack for weeks but the elaboration on Rob D's "Clubbed To Death" with his "Chateau" reflecting The Merovingians castle, was cool.

How cool is it that a film makes you think so much and so deeply into it's concepts. That is worthy of my money over and over again. I've studied the conversation with the architecht in depth and I still have no idea as to who the "mother" of the matrix would be. It certainly can't be trinity, she's too young. It can't be the Oracle as The Architecht replied "Please..." meaning no. Any thoughts on who the mother of the matrix could be?

[Fable]

Originally posted by darkma773r
I noticed the coolest thing in the movie. When they're in the French guy's bathroom, there is this awesome urinal (sp) that is like a water fall. Every guy who has seen this movie has noticed it. It is soo00 cool, i want to pee in one just for the fun of it. It is so awesome, it would make a girl want to pee standing up.

You ppl have to tell me, is this not the dream bathroom of any man?

That urinal rocked! i want one! any man could have some fun with that...

[himself]

The mother of the matrix could still very well be the Oracle. The Architect my have replied "Please..." just to say...hey...please be polite...let me finish. I dunno, do you get any clues in the game?
And talking about the game...is there anything that we who do not play the game would not know about. Please enlighten us.

[eclipsedman]

Heres my question . Did anyone notice when Neo enters the Architects room that strange colored lines and patterns fluctuate and move finally focussing and becoming the tv screens which multiply and split to become many screens. What happened there?

Have you noticed that there is alot of scenes where things go off into infinity (white hallway, tv screens, Green matrix vortex at beginning). Could all of them based on the mushroom vortex and be heavily influenced on drugs. Watch the film that way and it will give you an entire new perspective on the films and their underlying influences! :cool:

[Lackey]

Originally posted by eclipsedman
Watch the film that way and it will give you an entire new perspective on the films and their underlying influences! :cool:


Matrix on shrooms, cool idea ;)

[Aikido-M]

Neo was in a coma becuase Bane, the guy who is now being controlled by Smith, fired an EMP blast. That's why in the cliffhanger ending (which everybody seems to have forgot) shows both Neo and Bane in comas - they are both part-machine so they are affected by the EMP. So Neo did not actually stop the sentinels - he just sensed that they would be stopped becuase he has a conscious link to Smith.

[trevaine]

Aikido.. that makes sense. Thanks!

[yeahyeahyeah73]

All of us, including me, are wasting a significant portion of our lives trying to figure out what the hell happened in this movie. I, like lots of people, felt jerked around at the end of the movie. Although I admit that we have to look at this as the first half of a 5 hour movie (the second half of which comes out in November), I have to say I'm concerned that, considering all the convoluted, contradictory plot points, the directors will never be able to satisfy every aspect of why things are the way that they are. I loved parts of this movie, but I hated the way I felt when I left. After I walk away from seeing Revolutions, I'll say one of two things: either "Oh, I get it now! This is why all this crazy stuff happened!" or "They should never have made a sequel to the first Matrix." I realize that there are a lot of fanatics out there who will never admit to be disappointed in any way with this movie, and you're certainly entitled to that opinion. But I was a Matrix fanatic before this movie. Now, I have doubts. Anyway, here's my response to some of this stuff:

Originally posted by Tim37ninjageniu
AND FOR ALL YOU IDIOTS WHO DIDNT UNDERSTAND THE ASSASIN THING HERE GOES:
Agent smith duplicated himself changing the mind of a human into himself. However when that person went back to the real world his actual appearance was unchanged while his mind was. So now there is an Agent Smith trying to assasinate Neo in the real world. He is the man who cut himself. WHY? IT WAS HIS FIRST TIME IN REALITY. It was his first time feeling actual physical feelings so when he cut himself he was just seeing what pain actually felt like.

TADA done i think that is right and if not tell me why

I happen to thing you're mostly right, but you sure don't do much for your cause by making an ass of yourself.

For the sake of discussion, let me raise a question: How is it that the machines have been able to make Neo this "anomoly"? Could it be that he is 100% program and never was a human? Of course, this would mean that Zion, along with what we have perceived to be outside the Matrix, is actually another Matrix, but it sounds like many of you think that's the case anyway. Anyway, that's just a thought. The truth is that anyone who claims to conclusively spell everything out for us is kidding themselves. I think the answers won't come until November, or possibly never.

[pneuman]

First off, the Merovingian CANNOT possibly be a previous incarnation of THE ONE, because he says to Neo after Neo destroys all his goons: "I've survived your predecessors boy, and I'll survive you."

I think that Neo must be part machine, because the Architect mentions to reload the Matrix, Neo must go to the Source, and thus his prime code will be disseminated into the Matrix and reboot it. This means he must be part machine, which explains his connection to the machines in the real world. Just a thought.

I agree, we may never know all the real truths behind the Matrix ever, or at least until the third movie comes out. I think that I have several ideas and hypothesis about the movie, but they are only my opinions, which, with your help, evolve and change over time to become more in depth.

I am going to see this movie a 5th time tonight, so maybe I'll have some more insights. I really do think this is the most insightful and provocative movie in history, ever!

Remember, the cave scene was needed to show that the reason no one sees the real truth is that they are still being blinded by their most primal desires and they have not shed them. When Neo goes to the Architect, he sees the truth by destroying these desires and thus he now has the power to save humanity.

[fes]

I loved the film - it was awsome. But i have one major niggle - Not enough death! I was really annoyed when Neo saved Trinity's life - I was all for her dying - and dying properly - in reloaded, i guess i'll have to wait for revolutions now...............

[Blizzardman15]

Ya I wanted her to die cause they set it up as a perfect scene.

[fes]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Tim37ninjageniu
AND FOR ALL YOU IDIOTS WHO DIDNT UNDERSTAND THE ASSASIN THING HERE GOES:
Agent smith duplicated himself changing the mind of a human into himself. However when that person went back to the real world his actual appearance was unchanged while his mind was. So now there is an Agent Smith trying to assasinate Neo in the real world. He is the man who cut himself. WHY? IT WAS HIS FIRST TIME IN REALITY. It was his first time feeling actual physical feelings so when he cut himself he was just seeing what pain actually felt like.

TADA done i think that is right and if not tell me why
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This links in to something Morpheus says to Neo in "The Matrix" about the mind in the Matrix. It's that Smith, taking over the guy in the matrix takes over the guys mind. So when his data is transfered back into the body it is agent smith. Agent smith is now human, but has all the knowledge of the machines and still has a part in the matrix.

[GhostDog]

I disagree with you, fes. Agent Smith is not human, he is a disease, and like many diseases are capable of doing, he has taken over his host's mind (like bipolar disorder, or alzhiemer's, or brain cancer). He is still esentially a program, still in essence a machine. I think it's ironic that he has become the very thing he proports humans to be in M1.

[fes]

My point wasn't that he is human - i just worded it badly!

My point was that he can now feel pain as he has taken control of a human body, a host of sorts, and can feel human emotions. I totally agree with you on the virus thing.

[Tim37ninjageniu]

Originally posted by: yeahyeahyeah73

I happen to thing you're mostly right, but you sure don't do much for your cause by making an ass of yourself.

For the sake of discussion, let me raise a question: How is it that the machines have been able to make Neo this "anomoly"? Could it be that he is 100% program and never was a human? Of course, this would mean that Zion, along with what we have perceived to be outside the Matrix, is actually another Matrix, but it sounds like many of you think that's the case anyway. Anyway, that's just a thought. The truth is that anyone who claims to conclusively spell everything out for us is kidding themselves. I think the answers won't come until November, or possibly never.
__________________________________________________

the machines did not make Neo the anomaly. In fact they DID NOT want the anomaly to occur at all. WHos the ass now fool.

[Terry_24]

Some things I thought about...

Why doesn't Neo just jump into people like he did in M1 and just kill them? Is it too Dangerous?

Why was Seraph glowing Gold in the Matrix codes when Neo looks at him? Do all programs look that way, because the agents didn't look like that in M1?

When Hovercrafts use their EMPs do they become non-operable?

Whats the deal with the Kid that is on Neo's Nutz, will he be a bigger part in the next movie? I know where he's from but I don't understand why he is in this movie, just so they can have something else to tie in Animatrix to Reloaded?

Why doesn't Neo slap the Arcitect around a little bit? I would like to see them fight!

Since someone was around when Zion was rebuilt for the sixth time why doesn't someone say something! Neo:"Either no one knows, or, no one told me." Why would they hide it!? Or if no one knows, then that would mean... Zion = 2nd Matrix.

Also, I remember the Oracle saying something like, the only way we are going to get through this is together, or something to that effect... Which to me seems like the movie is going to end with peace between man & machine.

And one other thing, why wasn't Neo movin around like he did in M1, when he moved so fast that you would see multiple arms, similar to what the Agents do when they dodge bullets, I thought that was a cool effect, why did they leave it out?

[Ghostofzion2003]

because they kill off everyone in zion and the only ones that know about the past is agent smith....

A.S.:its happening just as before
A.S.2:well not exactly

[Ghostofzion2003]

and another thing I was watching the first matrix and at the end when neo is talking at the phonebooth it says on the computer screen warning: ANOMOLY DETECTED

[himself]

"warning: ANOMOLY DETECTED"

ahaha that's interesting...

Anyway, to answer Terry_24, when the matrix gets reloaded a rogue program's memory doesn't get reset...and that's why the oracle and that french dude(or wotever) remembers everything.
Also, when zion is rebuilt...'the one's' along with everyone else in zion dies....so there are no survivors to tell of the past.

Yeah... I dunno why Neo doesn't move in the same way that he did in the first matrix...and doesn't jump into the agents to kill them...i dunno. Maybe b/c if he did that..it would be too easy and the fights would be predictable and boring - someone in neo's way..jump in him...blow him up....another guy comes along...jump in him..blow him up. It would have been nice to see more super-quick hand punches and things like that. Oh well.

And is Seraph that asian dude?... i dunno who u're talking about...and even if i did...i dunno why he was.

[Boiiinng]

Originally posted by Terry_24
Some things I thought about...

Why doesn't Neo just jump into people like he did in M1 and just kill them? Is it too Dangerous?wondered that myself, who knows

Why was Seraph glowing Gold in the Matrix codes when Neo looks at him? Do all programs look that way, because the agents didn't look like that in M1?another stumper, maybe will be explained later, he has a bigger part in Revolutions

When Hovercrafts use their EMPs do they become non-operable?yes, remember when Morpheus was going to use the EMP in the first one, he had to wait until Neo got out of the Matrix or he would sever his carrier signal

Whats the deal with the Kid that is on Neo's Nutz, will he be a bigger part in the next movie? I know where he's from but I don't understand why he is in this movie, just so they can have something else to tie in Animatrix to Reloaded?kind of shows Neo's maturity from the first Matrix as becoming something like Morpheus, reminding people that their own minds accept the truth, not just someone telling them what is true

Why doesn't Neo slap the Arcitect around a little bit? I would like to see them fight!the architect didn't provoke him

Since someone was around when Zion was rebuilt for the sixth time why doesn't someone say something! Neo:"Either no one knows, or, no one told me." Why would they hide it!? Or if no one knows, then that would mean... Zion = 2nd Matrix.the chosen are from the Matrix and know nothing about Zion

Also, I remember the Oracle saying something like, the only way we are going to get through this is together, or something to that effect... Which to me seems like the movie is going to end with peace between man & machine.

And one other thing, why wasn't Neo movin around like he did in M1, when he moved so fast that you would see multiple arms, similar to what the Agents do when they dodge bullets, I thought that was a cool effect, why did they leave it out? two words..."hmmm...upgrades", the matrix has enhanced its agents in response to Neo, cause and effect, he is not as fast as before because they have caught up to him.[b]

[Fable]

"Why was Seraph glowing Gold in the Matrix codes when Neo looks at him? Do all programs look that way, because the agents didn't look like that in M1?"
I think it is because Seraph isn't just another program that he would see in code, he is a special program designed only for one thing, to protect the oracle. Maybe he has no code, maybe he just enjoys being a glowing kung fu guy (i couldn't think of a way to end that sentence).

[binge]

Well, I've read almost everyone's posts and I think we're on the right track for the most part:

First, has anyone researched the French boy, Merovingian? I looked into the name a bit and it speaks of an old Frankish (whatever this is?) religion based on an assumption that Lucifer and Jesus shared the same blood because they were both created in God's image. Now, stick with me here, since Neo is the "Messiah" or the one, I'm getting a sense that Merovingian is a program that might have the "essence" of a former human; basically a previous "the one." And his girl, who wants the kiss, was HIS Trinity. I've been struggling with the kiss business and I have two ideas. One, it's a play on the peter pan mythos where a kiss makes you real. But bigger than that, I think she wants a kiss from Neo because he still believes in his cause; he's vital; he's searching and that reminds her of Frenchy when he was the one and believing the lie of freedom. If you remember, she doesn't seem content until Neo kisses her with some conviction, if you will. Just something to chew on.

Yes, the love scene was too long but not trivial. And the cake business, hey people are motivated by only a few things. We want money, power, food and sex. I've often wondered if Morpheus and the crew pop into the Matrix every once in a while to hit a nice 5 star restaurant? Why not, you eat slop in the real world and then you hit Spago for a nice Filet.
Come to think of it, if the matrix "makes" it real like Morpheus said, can you gain real world weight if you pound too many big macs in the matrix?

I think that someone up above it right about Neo and his powers in the real world. At the end of this, it's gonna be a "power of the human experience" excercise. Neo can bend the matrix. Fine, so his brain has been getting constant practice INSIDE the matrix. Don't people use only 10% of their brain capacity and genuises use like 14%? Maybe Neo has been practicing for so long inside the matrix that he is using 25%. If so, I buy that he can take out Sentinels with the power of his highly developed mind. Hey, suspension of disbelief is the core of watching films. Commit to the leap and jump.....or... go see Down with love - I hear that's cute.

Lastly, remember that this movie never had a chance to live up to your expectations. I saw the Matrix at a Warner Bros. screening a month before it released and the reason why it blew my mind was because I had no knowledge of what it was. When you are waiting for a sequel you can't help but blow it out of proportion.

Tell me, what sequels really lived up to the first visit in the selected universe? I suppose, T2 and Aliens but Star Wars has been over since Episode 1 destroyed us. Temple of Doom WASN'T Raiders and so forth and so on.

[Arrakis]

Don't people use only 10% of their brain capacity and genuises use like 14%? Maybe Neo has been practicing for so long inside the matrix that he is using 25%. If so, I buy that he can take out Sentinels with the power of his highly developed mind.

Nobody, not even genuises, use more than 10% of their brain. They just use that 10% better than most of us do :P

And I like this theory, myself. I like the idea of him having real world powers, it makes him really special, not just another like one of the other 5 "one's".

[bbf2]

Three words I NEVER want to hear again in these movies:

"Choice," "Control," and (especially) "Purpose."

[Tim37ninjageniu]

Originally posted by: binge


First, has anyone researched the French boy, Merovingian? I looked into the name a bit and it speaks of an old Frankish (whatever this is?) religion based on an assumption that Lucifer and Jesus shared the same blood because they were both created in God's image. Now, stick with me here, since Neo is the "Messiah" or the one, I'm getting a sense that Merovingian is a program that might have the "essence" of a former human; basically a previous "the one." And his girl, who wants the kiss, was HIS Trinity. I've been struggling with the kiss business and I have two ideas. One, it's a play on the peter pan mythos where a kiss makes you real. But bigger than that, I think she wants a kiss from Neo because he still believes in his cause; he's vital; he's searching and that reminds her of Frenchy when he was the one and believing the lie of freedom. If you remember, she doesn't seem content until Neo kisses her with some conviction, if you will. Just something to chew on.
__________________________________________________ __

Sigh.
The architect said that all of the other "ones" had a profound connection with the rest of humanity but only in a very general way but NEO was the first "One" who experienced love. The architect said "your connection is much more specific visa ve ....love."

[Jarbacca]

right

[blackEyEz]

Originally posted by bbf2
Three words I NEVER want to hear again in these movies:

"Choice," "Control," and (especially) "Purpose."

Choice, nope because Neo choose for trinity and now he is free man.

Control, nope..there is no more control after he choose for Trinity

Purpose, ofcourse, every movie needs its purpose even a part 3 :)

My sentences I dont want to hear again:
"Matrix inside the matrix", "wake up neo", "i love you neo", "i love you trinity" and anything that has to do with a prophecy

[SlipknotSteveG]

Okay my main issue with the whole Matrx plot is this. The machines use the evergy created by human beings to survive right? So then why even bother creating this whole virtual world for everyone to live in if people make the same amout of energy when in comatose? And if you had to keep the human's minds busy then why not just show them all the same image? Why does everyone's image in the Matrix the same as in the real world? It seems that someone went through a whole lot of trouble for nothing. Or then maybe I'm just overlooking something. Someone help me out with this.

[Jarbacca]

Originally posted by SlipknotSteveG
Okay my main issue with the whole Matrx plot is this. The machines use the evergy created by human beings to survive right? So then why even bother creating this whole virtual world for everyone to live in if people make the same amout of energy when in comatose? And if you had to keep the human's minds busy then why not just show them all the same image? Why does everyone's image in the Matrix the same as in the real world? It seems that someone went through a whole lot of trouble for nothing. Or then maybe I'm just overlooking something. Someone help me out with this.


i think it was explained in the first movie that the more emotions a human has the more power it gives, therefore if the matrix gives them a life in which they feel all emothions from love to anger, then they are a better power source

[himself]

hahah perhaps...but i doubt that

it's b/c when the machines drained the energy out of the humans...they would die too quickly(if u've seen the second renaissence part II you know wot im talkign about). so the machines had to find a way to make the humans last longer(turning an avg duracell to the ultra duracell). they decided to create the matrix...but huge crops were lost b/c it wasn't perfect(if u read all previous posts you'll know wot im talking about) so they created another matrix...and so on...
now ppl aren't dying anymore... YAY!
i could go on and on about the 0.1% anamolies and stuff but...i'm sure u could go back and read all that anyway.


ahhaha and i wonder if Morpheus does go into the matrix to have a nice meal...or if he's been on the ship for too long and there's a lack of girls on board while nature calls..he'd plug himself into the matrix and umm...get jiggy wid it. hmm..that makes me think..if he's in the matrix screwing some chick...and the brain makes it real...would he get unplugged from the matrix all wet?...lol mate i should get a gun and shoot myself in the head

i hope you's enjoyed that cuz i certainly didn't...lol

[fes]

Originally posted by Tim37ninjageniu


Sigh.
The architect said that all of the other "ones" had a profound connection with the rest of humanity but only in a very general way but NEO was the first "One" who experienced love. The architect said "your connection is much more specific visa ve ....love."

But Frenchy might not have felt love towards Persephone. Maybe he was just playing along.

[linearsoulchild]

I have been reading this thread for a while, but nobody has mentioned the events in enter the matrix that might shed some light on this befuddling movie. The following are spoilers from the game, so if you are going to play it don't read any further. i must also apologise for the length and muddled nature of this post, but there are a LOT of important points that will help people figure the movie out)

First off, this game is excellent. The graphics are superb and the controls are very intuitive. You can use your focus meter to slow time down and perform bullet dodging jumps, cartwheels, flips, running on the walls, shooting in bullet time, grabbing, throwing, kicking, punching all with a great story.

It starts off just after the animatrix short 'Final Flight of the Osiris". Niobe and Ghost (her first mate on her ship the Logos) are contacted to retrieve a package from the post office. After a movie intro, introducing a smart arse operator called sparx or something, you jack in and can play as either niobe or ghost, and each character has it's own storyline and movies.

after the package is found, they go to the airport to utilise the hundreds of phones to call together the people that end up in the underground room in the matrix reloaded. After saving the crew of another ship from agents there is some more movie footage showing the 'Hairy Guy' from the merovingians palace (someone mentioned him earlier this thread) He approaches niobe just before she answers the phone and says "Seventy-two hooursh"

niobe: what did you say?

hairy guy: sheventy-two hooursh... that's how long zion lasted LAST time.

niobe: who are you?

hairy guy: me? i am just a spectator enjoying the ride (insert creepy laugh here)Niobe goes to the meeting. When the swat teams infiltrate the building and Neo has his first super fight scene in reloaded, niobe and ghost help the others to get to their exits. They save a few (including Bane and malachi. they are stopped by agent smith just before they exit... smith copies himself onto Bane, from reloaded) and jack out. There is some footage of Bane on his ship cutting his hands and looking like he's suffering from smack withdrawrals.

after getting the others to their exits in the sewers, niobe and ghost are chased by an agent into a dead end. They are saved by...the keymaker. Then there is film wherehe takes them to the green door hallway and tells them to give a key (to open the door to the source) to neo, but the merovingians werewolf guards appear take the key. The Keymaker said that if neo does not get the key, the entire world will end.

There is quite a lot of film after this point showing The black commander dude, niobe's current boyfriend, conviced the council to exclude niobes ship from the emp assault against the army. Niobe didn't take this well, saying what he did was wrong, she wants to fight, do her bit yaddayaddayadda. which is why she stood up at the council meeting in reloaded. also, the ship that niobe saved at the airport is the first dude to stand up at the meeting to go find the nebuchanezzer.

ghost on the other hand relaxes in zion for a bit in a training program (like a traditional japanese setting) and is joined by trinity. Ghost is actually in love with trinity (this is important later) but she thinks of him as a brother.

niobe then goes to the merovingian. You get to kick some vampire/werewolf ass (reminded me of buffy) and then there is some film of niobe/ghost meeting persephone. IMPORTANT- she tells niobe that she will tell her where ghost is being held (by the two werewolves that persephony shoots((silver bullets)) in exchange for a kiss.

niobe: how about i shoot your kneecaps out?
persephone: would you really give up your friend because of a little kiss?
*they kiss*
persephone: that was terrible, i wish you had shot my kneecaps out.
niobe: wait..
they kiss again and niobe goes to save ghost.

with ghost it was different. persephone only kissed him once, and she seemed to like it even more than when kissing neo later.
persephony: oh yes. mmmm. unrequited love, strong even though you will never feel love in return. for that i won't even tell my husband that you are coming. (very cool)

after saving the other, on the way out the keymaker show up in his cell from the matrix reloaded. he apologises, "i could not forsee that our paths were not meant to cross yet"

escaping to the parking lot somewhere with the help of a key, they are attacked by cain and able, the twins, and a car chase follows... right to the freeway behind the truck that morpheus and the keymaker are on (this is the best tie in, and it shows the trucks collision scene from reloaded)

when they jack out into the real, niobe finds out that one of the ships emp's went off early, and the plan has failed. You see a film of bane killing a few people on his ship. Noibe is contacted by Seriph, who says the same introduction as in the movie "i apologise. for what. for this" and then you see the oracle.

as Niobe. the oracle tells her that there are hard times ahead, and that the path of the one is made by many. she also alludes to a baby, trinity's future child, being integral to the survival of the human race and that it will have abilities of some sort. it was very vague but it definately confirmed that trinity got pregnant in the sex scene in reloaded. VERY IMPORTANT oracle tells niobe the future, that neo's mind will be trapped in the matrix, and only trinity can save him, and she will need to go through death and back to find him. (perhaps this will finally debunk that STUPID Zion-matrix theory. Neo is the ONLY one in the zion matrix)

as ghost, the oracle says "I am the oracle" (i must note here that another actress was playing the oracle)
ghost: if that is true then what is my answer to that postulate?
she tells him that the merovingian affected her in some way, that her code was changed and she no longer 'looks' like the old oracle. (though still a black woman in a kitchen) she alluded to the fact that the merovingian was part of her code or that he was in the past. she also tells him that trinity will never love him.
ghost quotes some author "????? teaches us that we must not only bear what we have to, but to love every bit"

niobe meets with morpheus and he asks her to help him. Niobe and Ghost are the ones who went to the power station to cut the power so neo could get into the architects room. so you go in, kick some ass, lay some bombs and you're outta there. but something went wrong, the power did not stay off. whilst trying to leave the power plant, she (i forgot how) ends up in the green door hallway, and who pops out but agent smith.

Smith: hmm. not, who i was, expekting. But, maybe you can, help me find, him.
niobe: who are you?
Smith: you might say i am the alpha...
another smith steps out : to your omega
smith: i am the beginning
smith: to your end

niobe/ghost do some cool moves and leave the green door hallway into a skyscraper under construction. This part of the game relies on niobe/ghost running away from smiths. they pop outfrom everywhere, niobe ends up at the street level, in a chinatown kind of place. Sparx(niobe's operator) says "this is impossible, slmost all of the people in this town are.... smith?"
running from there to the rooftops (lots of cool matrix jumping) niobe jacks out into the real.

the ship is being attacked by sentinels, so you pilot the ship or shoot them until they pull back and spin a bomb in their direction. it is shot down, but too close to the ship. it crashes and sentinals surround the ship. they punch the emp and some film follows.

So Niobe and Ghost are sitting in the dark in the cockpit of their ship.

Ghost: What do we do?
Niobe: We just have to hope someone finds us.
Ghost: so what happens now?
Niobe: i don't know, but i have a feeling it will be a hell of a ride.

SHOW TRAILER FOR MATRIX REVOLUTIONS

Ghost: well, nice to know theres something to look forward to.


THE END

i hope this helps some people. this is my first post ever, so i apologise again, it's just that i love stories, and what the wachowski brothers are doing with the animatrix and enter the matrix is making their world stand tall to star wars and lord of the rings (although nothing can beat lord of the rings and anyone who says otherwise needs to think about their priorities)

one last thing i want to say is that ghost is the coolest character and i wish they showed a LOT more of him in reloaded. there is a conversation at the start of the game that shows his character

after jacking into a loading program..

ghost is checking his guns
Niobe: Why do you do that?
Ghost: Do what?
Niobe: Check your guns. it's a program, it gets loaded exactly the same way every time.
Ghost: (somethingorather) teaches us that if you pick up a stone and drop it, it might fall to the ground, but then again, it might float to the ceiling. the past is not necessarily a template for the furure.
Niobe:which means what?
Ghost: which means you never know.

[HardcoreMF]

Originally posted by glorfindel1898
Sorry, pal, you're absolutely WRONG!

It was not Neo who visited the Architect 5 previous times. It was those individuals (whom-so-ever were dubbed as "One"s during each subsequent rebellion) that came to the Arcitect, each guided, like Neo, by the Oracle.

I cant believe you thought that the clips of Neo on the screens behind him were from all the other times Neo had seen the Arcitect!!? How'd you come up with that? All you had to do was listen to the conversation between Neo & Architect. The whole thing, just like several other conversations in the movie, centered around this idea: Are we free to make choices on our own ? (aka Free-will vs. predeterminism) or, in other words, how we react in given situations.....

What was being shown on the screens was clearly not from

Neo's 5 previous visits (first off, there were way more than 5 reactions being played - there were 50+ screens) ...they were all of NEo's possible reactions to the things the Architect was telling him. The whole time, the architect was predicting and analyzing Neo's reactions......when Neo has to pick 1 of the 2 doors, the architect starts analyzing Neo's thoughts and emotions.

Also, as far as "Matrix within a Matrix" --- no way.....

Before the Burly Brawl, Neo and Smith have a quick talk about the way Smith was freed when Neo jumped into Smith at the end of the first movie. It mentions in vague language how they are somehow connected/changed. B/c they "combined" briefly, Smith has moved a bit closer to humanity, just as Neo has moved a bit closer to machines. Now smith is more connected to humans (he inhabits Bane in the real world) , like Neo now has some connection to machines in the real world (psychically stops the squiddies).

On a purely unrelated note- "A Elbereth Gilthoniel!!!!"


That is what I have been saying on another board...the only thing I would add is remember when Smith tells Morpheus in the first movie that human beings are nothing more then a virus that spreads and spreads until nothing is left? I find it funny that now with his connection to "Neo" and humanity he is given the ability to spread like a virus.

[Riggswolfe]

Something i just realized on seeing the movie a second time. When Neo dreams of what happens to Trinity, he dreams it while he is in Zion, not the Matrix. Therefore his powers in Zion start sooner than when he downs the sentinels.

[himself]

Firstly, i'd like to thank linearsoulchild for his helpful piece on enter the matrix. It's great that the game links to the actual movie, but what I think is most worth recognition is that fact that Persephone kissed so many ppl. Which got me thinking. Could she be in fact the 'mother of the matrix'? Sure she doesnt look old but who's to say that a program has to age?
The architect pointed out that a woman was the first one to find a way to enslave the humans...meaning she studied the behaviours of mankind and programmed some coding to give humans so-called freewill or choice. What if now...she's studying the anomoly of 'love'? Consider the 3 ppl she kissed.

Neo: is rightfully in love with someone who loves him back
Ghost: in love with someone who will never love him back
Niobe: thinks she's in love with someone when she should be in love with someone else(morpheus)

These 3 candidates are the perfect candidates to perhaps help create the perfect matrix by downloading their 'lovely' information through kissing them(similar to rogue in xmen).

I have come to believe that the 0.1% anamoly isn't just those who seek 'freedom' but also those for 'love'. Maybe the machines can't program love properly yet and Persephone is still trying to perfect the matrix. Could this also be why the Oracle compared being 'the one' to falling in love?

"No one can tell you you're in love. You just know it"

Since 'the one's are anaomilies to the machines..perhaps 'love' is just another anomolie too!

[trevaine]

I agree with you on this 'love' thing. It seems important.

http://comingsoon.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=13131

[freshmaker]

Just went to see the movie a second time last night. All the writing in here had my mind going. :-)

I'm not shure if I've gathered a complete theory, as to what's going on yet, but some things are certain as I see it.

The Architect knows Neo is going to choose the left door, opposite to the 5 previous "Ones". He says:

But we already know what you're going to do, don't
we?
Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that
signal
the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and
reason.
An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious
truth:
she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the door on his left*

Second. I don't buy the notions that all the screens in the Architects "Office" are possible reactions from Neo. At least not all of them. When the architect says that Neo is the 6th "One", some of the screens go: "You mean there were 3 before me" and "You mean there were 4 before me". Why would he say 3 if, at this point, he knew 5 had been before him?

I haven't totally ruled out the posibillity of Zion being a Matrix within the matrix. It all depends on how you interprid the stopping of the Sentinels(and a few other things :-)). The EMP blast, or Neo by himself??

Here are the things that puzzle me:

In M1 Morpheus says that at some point in the 21st century machines took over basically and created the matrix. At the point of M1/M2 time is around year 2200. This is supposed to be the 6th version of the matrix(Does this count the first matrix that failed so misserably? Did the first matrix even exist long enough to facilitate a "One"?). On avarage this makes the lifespan of each matrix about 25 years.
If Zion is NOT a matrix, then someone will HAVE to know about the 5 reloads of the matrix. All of the true children of Zion that we know about. Tank, Dozer and now their sister are all how old? 25, 30? Born in the "Free" world?

And then this last thing. It may be a bit to far fetched.
If humans scorched the sky 150 years ago, and there have been no direct sunlight on earth for that long, how on earth are the people freed from the matrix able to breathe? You know. Sunlight, Plants, Oxygen?

Well, thats some of my 2c. The rest are would be more than a dollar, and I can't seem to put them in any logical order to post them. :-)

I'm not shure this post even makes any sence. I have enough trouble keeping track of all the theories, and matching them to what we know as certain. :-)

[fes]

Wouldn't an EMP blast inside a Matrix close down the matrix?

[XtRaVa]

why the hell didnt the architect just mix the doors, and say yeah if u go right u go back to trinity, and left is to restart the matrix...then wen he went right it wasnt actually to trinity lol

[fes]

that would have been fun for him, but boring for us.

[XtRaVa]

if there were 5 matrices already, the year machines took over (taking into account its currently about 2200) then it wud have been like the year 1600, last time i checked that wasnt the 21st century. so therefore the year wud actually be like 2700 or sumthin, but the ppl of zion wudnt know this of course

[fes]

Thats why the matrix within a matrix theory is the only one that works.

It probably is 2700, but in the Zion programme it's 2200 and in the Matrix it's 2000. The machines took over in 2100 odd, morpheus says "100 years of war, it may be over tonight".
I have to say that the matrix within a matrix theory is the only one that works.

Maybe in revolutions they'll break out of the zion matrix into the "real world", but keep thinking "is this real or are we in another matrix?" It'll get quite funny.

[XtRaVa]

lol

[Boiiinng]

Originally posted by freshmaker
Second. I don't buy the notions that all the screens in the Architects "Office" are possible reactions from Neo. At least not all of them. When the architect says that Neo is the 6th "One", some of the screens go: "You mean there were 3 before me" and "You mean there were 4 before me". Why would he say 3 if, at this point, he knew 5 had been before him?

One Neo says Three, Four, Five while another says You Mean There Were...

I haven't totally ruled out the posibillity of Zion being a Matrix within the matrix. It all depends on how you interprid the stopping of the Sentinels(and a few other things :-)). The EMP blast, or Neo by himself??

The EMP would disable the hovercraft, too

Here are the things that puzzle me:

If Zion is NOT a matrix, then someone will HAVE to know about the 5 reloads of the matrix. All of the true children of Zion that we know about. Tank, Dozer and now their sister are all how old? 25, 30? Born in the "Free" world?

The chosen are from the Matrix and know nothing of the real world until they are released

Every time the chosen are released they think it's 2100, so the calendar will never increase and since they can't see the stars, they can't map the calendar either.

[XtRaVa]

yeah same question i thought about was wudnt someone in zion have been passed down the info that they were selected. but it doesnt happen like that, what actually happens wud be closer to all of a sudden u wake up in the real world, and ur wiv some other ppl...and u all think "wtf where are we" then in time they rebuilt stuff etc

[himself]

I don't think that all of the 'real world' that we saw in matrix 1 and matrix 2 are in fact just another matrix..it would ruin the plot and make all the talk and philosophy and choice and control and all this other stuff pointless b/c humans are all dead and it's just machines. I don't think the Wachowski bros would do that to their fans b/c ppl would leave the cinema feeling depressed.
I do believe that there is a zion matrix...but we only see Neo in it in the last 5 mins of the movie. All reasons justify the purpose for having a zion matrix. It all makes complete sense. Other reasons for Neo being able to control the machines in real world also make sense. These two theories can be thrown back and forth and we wouldn't get anywhere...and at the end of the day...we'll all go to see revolutions and find the answer anyway.

[himself]

oh by saying humans are all dead...i mean..all dead in the real world...like..freedom fighters....they are still of course...alive when plugged up into the matrix

[hpk37067]

OK.
There is really not much evidence to support the idea of a matrix that Neo and the others came into at the very end. The machines don't know all of the attributes and characteristics of every fighter from Zion.
What I am saying is that the machines don't know everyone that is in Zion and part of the human resistance. So the machines couldn't have created a new matrix with all of the people from the HAMMOND hovercraft because they simply couldn't have created people who are so exact to the real people.
My theory, and a whole lot of other people agree, that the Smith/Neo connection is the key. Smith becoming more human and Neo becoming more agent and machine. This could also be proven by the feeling that Neo gets whenever there is an agent around. So the "matrix within a matrix" is a stretch too far for the Wachowski brothers to make.
- hpk37067

[Tim37ninjageniu]

Originally posted by fes
Thats why the matrix within a matrix theory is the only one that works.

It probably is 2700, but in the Zion programme it's 2200 and in the Matrix it's 2000. The machines took over in 2100 odd, morpheus says "100 years of war, it may be over tonight".
I have to say that the matrix within a matrix theory is the only one that works.

Maybe in revolutions they'll break out of the zion matrix into the "real world", but keep thinking "is this real or are we in another matrix?" It'll get quite funny.
__________________________________________________ __

it wouldnt get funny it would ruin the entire trilogy. If there is a matrix with in a matrix then there is no purpose for any of the movies at all. humanity has already lost. besides if zion was just a matrix why would the machines waste their time putting centinels in it. They could just drop an agent right into zion and he could kill everybody.
When they start zion over they must not allow the one to tell them the truth. besides he doesnt say he can pcik 23 people out of zion he says 23 people probobly from the matrix so when he does free them they would just be told what neo was told when he was freed. then they would go on fighting until the next integral anomaly occured and then the architect would reload the matrix and it would start over.

[Detori]

here's a new theory- They do in fact defeat the matrix, but in doing so Neo somehow accidentally reloads the matrix just as everyone thinks they've defeated the machines. This will probably be Neo's theoretical death as he's the christ figure. So the matrix will be reloaded with this new information of how one man is willing to sacrifice his life for the entire human species and how love works. With this new information everything will be reloaded into a perfect matrix where everyone entirely believes everything they're being told by the matrix. Thusly "revolutions"

[Detori]

Originally posted by Tim37ninjageniu
__________________________________________________ __

it wouldnt get funny it would ruin the entire trilogy. If there is a matrix with in a matrix then there is no purpose for any of the movies at all. humanity has already lost. besides if zion was just a matrix why would the machines waste their time putting centinels in it. They could just drop an agent right into zion and he could kill everybody.
When they start zion over they must not allow the one to tell them the truth. besides he doesnt say he can pcik 23 people out of zion he says 23 people probobly from the matrix so when he does free them they would just be told what neo was told when he was freed. then they would go on fighting until the next integral anomaly occured and then the architect would reload the matrix and it would start over.


Who's to say there's going to be a happy ending? Perhaps the message is that the human mind will forever be trapped by it's own imperfections and that's why we need machines

[hpk37067]

Hey
I just saw the Matrix: Reloaded again. I saw the final Revolutions trailer at the end of the movie. And you can here this old woman saying something about one of you (picture of Smith and Neo) has to die. Smith has to be key people. The whole matrix within a matrix doesn't include Smith at all. Show me a theory that included Smith and then it might make a bit more sense.
- hpk37067

[Riggswolfe]

I truly think the key to it all is in the Enter the Matrix game where Niobe is told by the Oracle that part of Neo's mind is trapped between worlds now because he went to the source.

[hpk37067]

What happens in the Enter the Matrix game? I have heard a lot of speculation so I would just like to know what all happened in the game. It is linked with RELOADED so it is probably really important.
-hpk37067

[linearsoulchild]

Originally posted by hpk37067
What happens in the Enter the Matrix game? I have heard a lot of speculation so I would just like to know what all happened in the game. It is linked with RELOADED so it is probably really important.
-hpk37067

go back a page in this post. yesterday i posted the full story (or as much as i could remember) in enter the matrix. it's the really reeally long post

[Ghostofzion2003]

theres not much but the most important part Is where Ghost goes to see the oracle and she tells him that when neo left the architect he left part of his mind there and in going into a coma he is now trapped between the real world and the matrix....

[Tim37ninjageniu]

Originally posted by Detori
Who's to say there's going to be a happy ending? Perhaps the message is that the human mind will forever be trapped by it's own imperfections and that's why we need machines

Hey I have no problems with unhappy endings. I do have problem with this theory. It doesnt just mean that there will be an unhappy ending, it means that there was no point for the trilogy in the first place. The first movie (the best movie of allllll time) will have absoulutely no point purpose or meaning at all.


It would be like making a movie about a guy who spent his entire life swimming upstream a river in order to get to the other end and then when he is almost there he realizes that he meant to go downriver. just then when he realizes his whole struggle has been meaningless he is eaten by a rivershark he didnt know was there. BUT just before he dies he sees his entire family burned to death and everyone in humanity enslaved. Then he dies.

[spiderman_2k]

:waa: Thats just a scary prospect swimming all that way and all that bad s*** happening seconds before u die....U have a very active imagination :D

[Tim37ninjageniu]

bump

[spiderman_2k]

Dude this topic is dying sure its informative but let it go so new topics can take over.

[Terry_24]

I have been trying to think up a new theory that no one has mentioned or maybe someone has, if you have sorry... When I watch the trailer to Revolutions, I see alot of emphesis on the battle between Neo & Smith. What I think might happen is that possibly the Architect was bluffing Neo about destroying the Matrix, but still the War on Zion happens. Machines attack and the humans put up a defense against them. During this Trinity is contacted by Niobe telling her what The Oracle told her in the Enter the Matrix game... telling her that Neo's mind is stuck in the Matrix, thus creating his coma. Then she says it's up to her to get him back... Trinty does, as it is said she goes through hell and back by the help of seraph, morpheous, niobe, and ghost. I think that the Merogivian has trapped Neo's mind and again Perosephane helps. All the time Zion is at war. When Neo's mind is free he wakes up and Bane awakes at the same time, which shows the relationship between Neo and Smith in the real world, because Smith has some how hacked Bane. Neo discovers his motive and kills bane. At this point Neo & Co. are contacted by none other than the Architect, who wishes to speak to Neo again. The Architect tells Neo that he needs his help with a renegade program (virus) destroying his precious Matrix. WHo is taking total control of every single person or program within it, by copying himself. Which would prove all of the Smiths in the Revolutions Trailer, and there was a numerous amount of them this time filling the sides of streets and all the windows in the buildings in the background. Probably a 1000 fold of them in that shot. The architect asks him to eliminate Smith and in return create a truce between Man and Machine. But coming to an agreement to NOT free everyone from the Matrix but he would be allowed to pick a set number of people every year or something like that and others from the real world including Neo would be allowed to hack in. And he would also be allowed to tell everyone in the Matrix the Truth... During this Zion is at it's breaking point, machines are about to win. THousands of sentinals and other machines are in Zion and are about to release the final assault, then they all stop... turn around a go back to the surface. Neo and Architect depart. Neo tells everyone what has happened, and that he must go back in... to do the final battle, good versus evil, Neo versus Smith.

Just something that I pondered for awhile, if you have any thoughts on my goofy Theory please, I would like to hear good or bad feedback! Again if someone has mentioned this I'm sorry!

[Terry_24]

I have been trying to think up a new theory that no one has mentioned or maybe someone has, if you have sorry... When I watch the trailer to Revolutions, I see alot of emphesis on the battle between Neo & Smith. What I think might happen is that possibly the Architect was bluffing Neo about destroying the Matrix, but still the War on Zion happens. Machines attack and the humans put up a defense against them. During this Trinity is contacted by Niobe telling her what The Oracle told her in the Enter the Matrix game... telling her that Neo's mind is stuck in the Matrix, thus creating his coma. Then she says it's up to her to get him back... Trinty does, as it is said she goes through hell and back by the help of seraph, morpheous, niobe, and ghost. I think that the Merogivian has trapped Neo's mind and again Perosephane helps. All the time Zion is at war. When Neo's mind is free he wakes up and Bane awakes at the same time, which shows the relationship between Neo and Smith in the real world, because Smith has some how hacked Bane. Neo discovers his motive and kills bane. At this point Neo & Co. are contacted by none other than the Architect, who wishes to speak to Neo again. The Architect tells Neo that he needs his help with a renegade program (virus) destroying his precious Matrix. WHo is taking total control of every single person or program within it, by copying himself. Which would prove all of the Smiths in the Revolutions Trailer, and there was a numerous amount of them this time filling the sides of streets and all the windows in the buildings in the background. Probably a 1000 fold of them in that shot. The architect asks him to eliminate Smith and in return create a truce between Man and Machine. But coming to an agreement to NOT free everyone from the Matrix but he would be allowed to pick a set number of people every year or something like that and others from the real world including Neo would be allowed to hack in. And he would also be allowed to tell everyone in the Matrix the Truth... During this Zion is at it's breaking point, machines are about to win. THousands of sentinals and other machines are in Zion and are about to release the final assault, then they all stop... turn around a go back to the surface. Neo and Architect depart. Neo tells everyone what has happened, and that he must go back in... to do the final battle, good versus evil, Neo versus Smith. But for Neo to totally defeat Smith, he will have to sacrafice himself in order to do it.

Just something that I pondered for awhile, if you have any thoughts on my goofy Theory please, if you would like to add or take away any ideas from the theory that would be great, I would also like to hear good or bad feedback!The More the Merrier. Again if someone has mentioned this I'm sorry!

[Terry_24]

Jeez I post it twice, my bad:D

[spiderman_2k]

Lol one huge post and u put it in twice :rolleyes:, u took away some of my life scrolling past the second one, id like it back right now. :D

[Luvalon]

I don't really know what to think or believe after reading each and every one of the posts here, I find it very fascinating however and I do have two thoughts.

1) The several TV monitors can't be showing previous Neos, because if you noticed when he goes to walk out the door all the monitors show the same image, which I think means each monitor represents a thought in his mind, conflicting emotions if you will. When he chooses to save Trinity there is no doubt in his mind, that is the one singular thought the he has.

2) Most people think that the Oracle is the so called Mother of the Matrix, but I have a theory that it COULD be Persephone. As others have mentioned it wasn't confirmed or denied that the Oracle was the mother, all we know for sure is that she is a female(of course) and that she is an Intuitive program. Now there is some small implication that Persephone could be a type of inutitive program. She knows that Neo and Trinity are in love because "it is written all over their faces" and she can sense things from people by kissing them, as seen with Neo, Niobe and Ghost. Also when the Merovingian confronts her about aiding Neo, she not only knows that the Merovingian was off getting "lucky", she also knows precisely what happend. "She didn't kiss your lips."

[Boiiinng]

Here's a brain bender......Agent Johnson says to the keymaker "you are no longer necessary" but Neo needs the keymaker to get into the source and the Architect needs Neo, so why would the architect allow the agents to possibly destroy the keymaker if Neo needs him?

[Sparhawk]

Originally posted by Boiiinng
Here's a brain bender......Agent Johnson says to the keymaker "you are no longer necessary" but Neo needs the keymaker to get into the source and the Architect needs Neo, so why would the architect allow the agents to possibly destroy the keymaker if Neo needs him?

i dont think the agents are the architects puppets. he doesnt control their every move. their job is to try to maintain the matrix. to them the keymaker is just another renegade program who should have been deleted.

[himself]

Replying to Luvalon's
"Most people think that the Oracle is the so called Mother of the Matrix, but I have a theory that it COULD be Persephone"

I've already stated a couple of posts back that Persephone is the mother of the matrix and why it is so. If you had've read all the posts..I'm sure u wouldn't have missed that since we share the same view.

[Luvalon]

himself I did read that post, sorry I didn't mention it because I didn't catch the name of the person who posted.

[Stardog]

Originally posted by Riggswolfe
Something i just realized on seeing the movie a second time. When Neo dreams of what happens to Trinity, he dreams it while he is in Zion, not the Matrix. Therefore his powers in Zion start sooner than when he downs the sentinels.

Wow, what a great observation, I can't believe no one commented on this...

That and the gift of the Spoon Neo gets before he leaves (there is no spoon) Both, great elements of foreshadowing the Zion Matrix.

[Master Chief Pr]

You guys got it ALL WRONG. The Crotch in code scene was not an orgasm scene. Peice it together people. He made her go to the bathroom, seconds later he went to the bathroom, but not the mens, the ladies. Persephone has the power to tell if someone is lying. Didn't you here here her say to the body guards, "oh, and he's in the ladies room. Get it know. Later in the chateau scene, "why do you still have on her lipstick":"what lipstick women, what are you talking about, i don't have on her lipstick." Persephone says "I didn't say she was kissing you mouth my love." A blowjob yes, an orgasm while eating the cake.... NO! He just made her use the bathroom.

And for those of you who had trouble understanding the architect scene, here it is:


Maybe some of you found hidden messages in the dialogue about what’s going to happen in the next but for those who had a hard time understanding it here it is.

The architect scene: The matrix is all about control. According to architect there have been 5 anomalies, Neo being the 6th. The Matrix is older than you think. There have been 5 different Matrix's all together. The machines had to give the humans the ability of choice, if not the humans would not accept the program (Matrix) and it would be a failure. So the machines knew what might happen, the humans make a choice to start a war and try to kill the machines. So the machines had a built in fail safe if this revolt were to happen, which it has many a time. The fail safe is "The One." With Neo being "The One"( like the 5 before him) means that he carries a code in him that must be reinserted into the Matrix. A system reboot you might say, to keep things in check. One door leads to the matrix mainframe and the salvation of Zion. (The 5 prediceors before Neo choose the door to the mainframe) Neo must choose 23 people from the matrix 16 women and 7 men to rebuild Zion, and the war would be over. The other door however led back to Zion and the extinction of the human race. Going into this door would cause a cataclysmic system crash. Everyone plugged in to matrix will be killed. But there was something different about this anomaly (Neo) he had a sense of purpose, much more specific than the others, TRINITY, they loved each other and Neo made the choice to go through the door back to the matrix and save Trinity. The Oracle was right Neo is “The One” and he now knows his purpose and what he has to do. Morpheus knew he was “The One” but didn’t know his purpose. IT’S ALL ABOUT THE CHOICES WE MAKE!

The other scene:
is when the sentinels destroy the ship and there running from them. Neo stops and says there’s something wrong and he can feel them. He puts out his hand and stops them just like the bullets. This is where it gets interesting, remember the matrix is an interactive simulation, it is based on a system of rules, rules like gravity, and these rules however can be bent or broken. In the “real world” they CAN NOT. Why because it is not a computer program. THEN HOW DID NEO STOP THEM IF THERE IN THE REAL WORLD. There is only one explanation; there is a matrix within the matrix. What they think is the real world is only a lie. The machines are giving them the benefit of the doubt. REMEMBER ITS ALL ABOUT CONTROL. Neo is more powerful than we think and he is realizing that something is not right and is going to become aware of it in the next one I think.

HOPE THIS HELPS
[img]http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/iamtheone/Sig_2_for_halo.gif[img]

[Boiiinng]

Um...she's definitely having an orgasm, the code in her crotch explodes. If that's not an abstract form of coming then I don't know what is.

[ForestGoblin]

Tho i think this discussion is closed, I'd like to point something out that no-one has mentioned. I do in fact believe every screen in the Architect's room represents one of the choices Neo could make, as after we've been treated to several screens in the shot all at once, all with their different reactions, the camera zooms in and focuses on a single screen - ie. the choice that Neo makes.

I'm just going to watch a small portion of M1, just before Neo is interviewed by Smith, where we get the shot of all the screens, to see if any of them are different - ie. representing his different choices of reactions to being arrested.

[ForestGoblin]

And by the way, if anyone is interested and doesn't own "Enter the Matrix", look for this file on kazaa:

the.matrix.revolutions.mpeg

looks pretty impressive. and if you hadnt figured it out, its another revolutions trailer :)

[optimism_]

Hi
I have a question about the original matrix which might tie into revolutions unless ive missed summit here
Back when trinity extracts the bug from Neo's chest, they stop and give him a choice, their way or the highway and we see a road through the window. Trinity says summit along the lines of "you know where that road leads, and i know thats not where you want to be right now" why is that/where does the road lead to.

While im here, about Reloaded, where "real world Neo" stops the sentinels, i believe it entirely possible that they were stopped by the second ship that came to rescue them. The ship having fired the EMP blast could easily have rebooted and come to pick them up in the time.

About this Smith in the real world thing. Ever since the first matrix, we have accepted that people's minds can plug into a computer program. Why then is it so hard to believe that a computer program could plug into a mind. Especially so, as, and i know its been said before, that Smith as taken on all the attributes of a virus: self replication, with a specific goal at the end.

I appologise ive im repeating what others have already said, but i have not as yet read this entire thread. 10 pages takes a verrrrrrrry long time to read !

optimism_

[hpk37067]

If the ship had fired the EMP blast, then wouldn't have their own systems have gone down also? I mean, if the systems on the hovercraft had shut off all systems and then turned on the EMP, wouldn't it have taken a bit longer for them to reboot all their systems? In addition, in the first Matrix movie, a "dazzling" display of blue is shown and the sentinals just drop dead when they are hit. In Reloaded, they simply short circuit and lightning arcs over them. How can you explain these happenings?
-hpk37067

[Tim37ninjageniu]

you cant explain it no matter how hard people try. just wait 4 more months

[Arrakis]

It wasn't a EMP blast that stopped the sentinals. Why? Momentum. An EMP would just fry their electrical sysetems, but going at the speed they were, they'd short out, but they'd keep going for quite a few yards. They just stopped dead in the air, froze. No doubt about it, something was controlling them, and something stopped them. Whether it was Neo or not . . .

[hpk37067]

Yeah, and when an EMP blast was let loose, it was blue and the sentinals just fall down after freezing in the air for a second or two. In Reloaded, lightning was arcing across their bodies and there was no blue light. It could not have been an EMP blast.

-hpk37067

[Sparhawk]

Originally posted by optimism_
Hi
Trinity says summit along the lines of "you know where that road leads, and i know thats not where you want to be right now" why is that/where does the road lead to.


Trinity isnt speaking about a real road - shes speaking metaphorically - she means if Neo chooses to get out of the car he'll be going back to his half-life, still full of questions, unfullfilled.

[thecastrated]

But can some1 explain to me the programs, aka agent smith and the others. So Programs can be 'program law abiding ones and rouge one"?? Didnt the other agent who was present in matrix1 appear briefly when the numerous smiths were fighting Neo?

A lot have been expounded about the architect's implication.. but it seems that within programs there were 'bad vs evil' themes too. Why did the French man need the keymaker? and anyone realised that when smith jumped on the car while the 'vampires' and neo were fighting a vampire began to attack Smith?

Some1 needs to enlighten about the programs.....





"i think it was explained in the first movie that the more emotions a human has the more power it gives, therefore if the matrix gives them a life in which they feel all emothions from love to anger, then they are a better power source"



When did this scene occur?????????? I remember only that morpheus said the matrix exists to control humans(not exact words)

Although the architect's words gives weight to the above: there are levels of survival which we are willing to accept(or something like it)


__________________
Who would win in a fight, Yoda or Superman?



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05-25-2003 04:30 AM



himself
Grip

Registered: May 2003
Location:
Posts: 29

hahah perhaps...but i doubt that

it's b/c when the machines drained the energy out of the humans...they would die too quickly(if u've seen the second renaissence part II you know wot im talkign about). so the machines had to find a way to make the humans last longer(turning an avg duracell to the ultra duracell). they decided to create the matrix...but huge crops were lost b/c it wasn't perfect(if u read all previous posts you'll know wot im talking about) so they created another matrix...and so on...
now ppl aren't dying anymore... YAY!
i could go on and on about the 0.1% anamolies and stuff but...i'm sure u could go back and read all that anyway.

[Boiiinng]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by thecastrated
Didnt the other agent who was present in matrix1 appear briefly when the numerous smiths were fighting Neo?well, it was a new actor, who knows what his agent name is

Why did the French man need the keymaker? he didn't need him, he wanted him, the oracle answered this...what do all men with power want? more power, he wants the ability to walk into a bank vault with a simple key and take all the money without anyone being the wiser
and anyone realised that when smith jumped on the car while the 'vampires' and neo were fighting a vampire began to attack Smith? what are you smoking?, the agent who jumped on the car in the freeway scene was not Smith, just the new head agent...johnson I think?[b]

[spiderman_2k]

Yeah i think hes called Johnson

[hpk37067]

He was an upgraded agent. Smith can't randomly find hackers anymore. He's not an agent.

- hpk37067

[thecastrated]

I sure gonna rewatch reloaded again...

But within the computer world what is smith reduced to then? Just an almost ordinary program with the added ability to clone?

Did the new agents have an obligation to side with the frenchman?

[SD_Eagle5]

Some thoughts about "Reloaded"

* The architect is bluffing. Neo mentions early in the film that the machines are panicking.
*At the end of part 1, as Neo is coming out of the Matrix -- machines are also attacking Morpheuses ship -- simultaneous with Neo coming out of the Matrix, the EMP's are launched that destroy the machines. Is this a coincedence that Neo uses the same power to stop the machines in the real world? I don't think so. I'm not buying into the whole "Matrix inside the Matrix" theory.
* Why assume that Neo is the anamoly? IMO its either Agent Smith -- who is clearly trying to take over the Matrix -- or the oracle.

I have more theories but I don't feel like writing them..lol

[Tim37ninjageniu]

Originally posted by SD_Eagle5
Some thoughts about "Reloaded"

* Why assume that Neo is the anamoly? IMO its either Agent Smith -- who is clearly trying to take over the Matrix -- or the oracle.

I have more theories but I don't feel like writing them..lol

Uh ..... are you on crack? The architect kinda said he was the anomaly and all. It was pretty blatant.

[hpk37067]

Originally posted by thecastrated
But within the computer world what is smith reduced to then? Just an almost ordinary program with the added ability to clone?

Smith is now a virus. You know, in a computer, viruses infect other programs and then start multiplying. Just like Smith because he's replicating himself into other programs within the matrix.

- hpk37067

[XtRaVa]

If you've played ETM on the last few levels one is called "The virus spreads" and ur being chased by multiple smiths, its just showing that by the end of reloaded smith has infected thousands of programs, as we see in the revolutions trailer there are smiths everywhere watching neo and the original fighting...my guess is that, that whole city is now smiths...and its spreading everywhere, in which case all the people smith has infected are now basically dead....maybe this is a good thing because if neo wins they cant take everyone out of the matrix, but this wud mean that they wudnt need to because every person once hooked up to the matrix is now gone...sad, but possibly true

[Tim37ninjageniu]

Some thing I thought was interesting from the first movie was how Smith called humanity a virus and eventually (I hope) humanity will be the downfall of the matrix just like a computer Virus.

Also if you watch that scene again from the first one you will pick up on a whole bunch of things that have new meaning after reloaded.

[XtRaVa]

also...u can see how much more human smith is now because of neo...he himself is a virus, just like how he described humans

[Fanible]

Kinda ironic considering in the first, Smith described humans as being like a virus or disease of the planet, and they're the cure.

[hpk37067]

bump

[alfiemoon]

Originally posted by XtRaVa
If you've played ETM on the last few levels one is called "The virus spreads" and ur being chased by multiple smiths, its just showing that by the end of reloaded smith has infected thousands of programs, as we see in the revolutions trailer there are smiths everywhere watching neo and the original fighting...my guess is that, that whole city is now smiths...and its spreading everywhere, in which case all the people smith has infected are now basically dead....maybe this is a good thing because if neo wins they cant take everyone out of the matrix, but this wud mean that they wudnt need to because every person once hooked up to the matrix is now gone...sad, but possibly true


I read in an interview with Hugo Weaving that, by the end of Revolutions, Agent Smith is meant to have wholly repopulated the Matrix with copies of himself. I guess that means it doesn't matter if everyone plugged in is killed - unless there's some way to undo the Smith copying effect.

Also, based on the Revolutions trailer - has Smith now got the same "one"-like powers as Neo? When they punch each other they both fly apart, and another shot suggests that Smith can fly...? Possible, considering the connection they both share...

[hpk37067]

I guess that since Smith has become Bane in the real world, he has no limitations like a normal agent. So he can do all of the fancy stuff like Neo.